The chart above lays out “strategic partners” for 2025. Pakistan lists China, Türkiye, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and assorted others. India, by contrast, shows Israel. But the real issue isn’t who collects more flags; it’s whether any of Pakistan’s patrons will ever raise its HDI, improve infrastructure, or embed long-term stability.
I’m interested to hear what the commentariat thinks of this moment. India’s foreign policy is already locking it into superpower status. Pakistan remains reactive, borrowing survival from whoever will lend it.
The analogy that strikes me: India–Pakistan resembles Russia–Ukraine, except if Ukraine had kept nuclear weapons. The parallels are strong:
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Ukraine, like Pakistan, is a breakaway sibling — the “other half” of a civilizational whole.
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Ukraine, like Pakistan, survives by appealing to larger patrons.
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And interestingly, the GDP ratio gap between Russia and Ukraine is almost exactly the same as between India and Pakistan (please fact check me).
Just as Ukraine is considered the homeland of the Russian Empire (Kievan Rus’), Pakistan carries the legacy of Partition as the “Indus homeland.” That symmetry makes the analogy more than superficial.
On Kabir: I understand his consistent emphasis on Muslim rights and Muslim nationalism. Readers should be aware of that lens. I’m not moderating him out, but I would caution the commentariat against being gaslit into endless provocations by Kabir. The question here is not identity politics, but the direction of Indian and Pakistani foreign policy in a critical moment in global history (decades are happening in weeks).
i) india as a state has no interest in regaining lands upto sindhu river, which is the frontier of hindu consciousness.( although indira gandhi wanted to do in 1971) origins of sanatani religion on banks of sindhu and attachment to it is non existent in the hindu masses. the focal point of hinduism is the ganges plains and himalayas.
ii) also the dominant religions of both countries are diametrically opposite.
iii) russia’s origin was kiev. the area east of dniper is russian speaking and follows orthodox church. hence russia has captured it. this was the dividing line drawn by samuel huntington in his famous ‘clash of civilizations’. further russia’s interest in kiev now is for a regime change!!.
But the real issue isn’t who collects more flags; it’s whether any of Pakistan’s patrons will ever raise its HDI, improve infrastructure, or embed long-term stability.
Yes, China CAN.
It is more of an Issue whether Pakistans army is more interested in Guns or Butter,
Take the example of Tibet.
Dirt poor, illiterate country at the time of Chinese take over. Even more so Geographically inaccessible.
Now
GDP/capita US$ 10,640 (3 times that of India)
Life Expectancy: 72 (same as India)
(Pre-1951: Life expectancy was around 35.5 years)
The Sichuan–Tibet High Speed railway is due to be completed in 2030.90% of the railway runs at an altitude of more than 3,000 m (9,843 ft). Will cut travel time from Chengdu to Lhasa from 48 to 13 hours. (There is a wiki on it, look it up very impressive).
India, by contrast, shows Israel.
Israel will not help India economically, specially with the ongoing isolation and economic blockade of Israel. All Israel is interested is selling arms.
Israel can be a very nasty partner. Played both sides LTTE and Govt in Sri Lankas civil war. Trained both sides. Worse advised when a remote controlled mine was detonated went of in Tamil areas to kill Tamil civilians in the nearby village.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_Autonomous_Region
Except China CAN’T and HASN’T.
Tibet is a part of China where it has full sovereignty. Pakistan isn’t.
The CPEC with all hoo-hah began in 2015. It still is nowhere close to complete. Baloch rebels kill Chinese engineers on the regular.
Pak’s GDP pci in 2015 – USD 1,540
Pak’s GDP pci in 2024- USD 1,580
Considering inflation Pakistan’s GDP pci has decreased.
Pak HDI 2015 – 0.527
Pak HDI 2023 – 0.544
Pakistan has way more issues (feudal land holdings, low investments/savings rate, insurgency, high fertility rate/population growth) which cannot be solved by some Chinese/Arab silver bullet.
Yes, China CAN.
It is more of an Issue whether Pakistans army is more interested in Guns or Butter,
You can take a horse to water, you cannot make it Drink
I find it interesting that you are using Tibet as evidence of the ‘benefits’ of Chinese colonialism. Or am I misunderstanding your argument?
Yes
Whatever India touched/invaded has failed.
Including itself
ah, so this is more about “India bad” rather than CCP colonization of Tibet, good”. Gotcha.
As a counterpoint, I would submit Bhutan and Sikkim. Bangladesh. Among many other things, but I doubt you’re interested in anything that doesn’t fit your argument.
As a counterpoint, I would submit Bhutan and Sikkim. Bangladesh. Among many other things, but I doubt you’re interested in anything that doesn’t fit your argument.
Uttar Pradesh
GDP/capita USD 1,500
Literacy Rate Male: 86.0 Female 70.4
Infant Mortality: 46/1000 (2015)
Arunachal; Pradesh
GDP/Capita USD $2,275
Literacy Rate Male: 88.0 Female:80.3
Infant Mortality: 30/1000
Bangladesh
GDP/Capita USD 2,593.42
Literacy Rate Male: 76.5 Female:72.82
Infant Mortality: 33/1000
Tibet for Comparison
GDP/Capita USD 10,640
Literacy Rate: 65.4%
Infant Mortality: 4.3/1000
Next time educate yourself and look at the wider data. Many just compare India to Pakistan to make India seem good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_literacy_rate
Are you asserting that the citizens of Bhutan would have preferred being “Tibetized” instead of retaining their identity thanks to India’s generous protection umbrella offered up for nothing in return in the 1950s?
Do you realistically believe this? That cultural genocide and colonialized ‘per capita’ income increases are a better outcome?
Or do you just want to take provocative potshots at India’s economic metrics. If its the latter, I’m fine with it. There’s plenty that India has done wrong and failed miserably at, in the post-independence era. And continues to get wrong in the “modi era”.
But can we please have an honest discussion instead of letting biases and emotions take over to the extent where we somehow start pretending that Tibet and the Uighurs are a “success story”?
Some might argue that even Sri Lanka can be included. Was it Khrushchev who asked Nehru why Sri Lanka isn’t part of the Indian Union already? And did not end like Goa?
Without the immediate infusion of Indian billions would the Sri Lankan economy have survived the recent collapse?
So I think your grandiose assertions on India’s ‘touch’ are … more than a bit misguided and one-eyed.
Without the immediate infusion of Indian billions would the Sri Lankan economy have survived the recent collapse?
I think you are the one who has GRANDIOSE ideas of India. Billions probably in Pesos,
More like a few USD millions, mainly in SWAP lines. Hopefully you know what is a SWAP.
I think you have forgotten the biggest loss of Army Personnel in modern India. Caused by India’s proteges the LTTE trained and funded by India. The Icing on the cake was the LTTE assassinating Rajiv Gandhi on Indian soil. Humiliation and Karma at its best
Even so SL had a 30 year disastrous Civil war with the LTTE. Set Sri Lanka back by 30 years and we should have been equal to Thailand..
See Major Abhay Sapru on LTTE training in Chakarata
Apparently Chakarata was established with the CIA and trained Tibetan terrorists among many others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuzM7iHm8U
Link: https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/JIPA/Display/Article/3859529/indias-extraordinary-support-during-sri-lankas-crisis-motivations-and-impacts/
10 seconds of googling shows that it wasn’t just “swaps”.
You are correct to point out that Indian intervention in SL hasn’t always been benevolent. There is a troubled history there with the LTTE etc. But surely you do not blame the Sri Lankan civil war on India? I mean, the aggressive apartheid like discrimination carried out by the Sinhalese, surely, is the primary factor there?
Your posting pattern is quite clear, and its ok that you seem to have a pronounced hate-boner for India. We are all allowed our emotions and biases. But lets keep the discussions as honest and logic driven as we can yeah?
India is the dumb one for helping out neighbors like SL and Bangladesh when they go broke or face a natural disaster and come begging for help. These countries only respect ruthless toughness.
Look at Bangladesh, they love Pakistan far more than India. The genocide and mass rapes of 1971 in the immediate short term made them upset, but in the long run it made them respect, admire, idolize, and emulate the Pakistanis. Look at SL, China did their debt trap diplomacy and told them to fuck off in their darkest days, and yet China’s biggest admirers and sycophants are Sinhalas.
Only ruthless toughness works with these kind of people. Giving help is seen as weakness and will be repaid with disrespect and animosity.
Are you OK? In your interactions with me you’ve tried to present yourself as a principled liberal but this comment is just pure Indian nationalism.
It seems to me that the issue between Bangladesh and India is India’s support for Sheikh Hasina and her continued presence in India. India put all its eggs in the Hasina basket and didn’t plan for a future in which she (or Awami League) was no longer in power.
Bangladesh still has many issues with Pakistan. Of course, there is a shared connection given that both are Muslim majority countries.
ah the magical “M” word again.
Isn’t it factually correct that Bangladesh and Pakistan have a bond because the populations share the same religion?
I’m really not sure what you think you’re trying to debunk.
India is the dumb one for helping out neighbors like SL and Bangladesh when they go broke or face a natural disaster and come begging for help.
Hoju
Sri Lanka never asked India of all countries for help. India is the one that keeps begging to help to get their foot in the door.
Look at SL, China did their debt trap diplomacy and told them to fuck off in their darkest days, and yet China’s biggest admirers and sycophants are Sinhalas.
Yeah we love the Chinese. You know why because you chaps are scared of them. I guess Hoju as Tamil you hate the Sinhalas as they are Indo Aryan
Only ruthless toughness works with these kind of people. Giving help is seen as weakness and will be repaid with disrespect and animosity.
Yeah we saw your help in funding the Terrorist LTTE. They were your kind of Tamils who repaid that “kindness” by killing Indo Aryan Indian Soldiers and then assassinated North Indian Rajiv Gandhi in your homeland of Tamil Nadu with the help of Indian Tamils
Hoju
Are you not the chap who was making money of Tamil Economic Asylum Seekers in Canada. Claimed they were victims of genocide. Are helping the Palestinians or do you hate Muslims too. Or are scared of being cancelled in Canada for speaking out against Genocide. You are a coward and sycophant.to the ruling whites of Canada
I may disagree with you on a lot of things but I’m with you in pushing back against the Indian nationalism on this site.
If Pakistan were the only country in South Asia that was anti-India, that would be one thing. But India has managed to get every other country in South Asia to perceive it as a bully (Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, even Nepal).
Indians need to introspect about why literally nobody in their neighborhood likes them.
If you are a “Pakistani nationalist”; why isn’t the Commentariat allow their Indian Nationalism.
It is an interesting turn of phrase you have used; the reason you love Nehruvian & Gandhian secularism so much is because it throttles Hindus from experiencing their full range of emotion and identity.
The commentariat is allowed their Indian nationalism. I never said they weren’t.
But it is interesting to note that rather nasty Indian nationalist comments in response to sbarrkum don’t seem to get much pushback while a similar comment from me would.
Everyone here is a nationalist. Sbarrkum is a Sri Lankan nationalist. Others are Indian nationalists. I am a Pakistani nationalist. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Please don’t tell me why I admire Nehruvian secularism. I grew up in a secular state. I believe states should belong to all their citizens. We’ve already had this entire discussion in the context of “Civilization states vs nation states”.
On a side note, since you seem to really not be a fan of mine, why are you still subscribed to my Substack?
He doesn’t really love Gandhian secularism though, its only a tool to push his argument. Right-wing Pakistanis have new-found “louvv” for Nehru and Gandhi in the “modi era” because it allows them to deflect hinduphobia questions, at least partially. Ask them about the 2-nation theory and the necessity for partition, and suddenly Nehru, Gandhi turn into ‘oppressive Hindoos’ that supposedly left them no choice but to carve out a muslim supremacist separate nation-state.
Its just tiresome. Just be honest about your biases. I’d be fine with it then.
Are you a licensed psychologist? Please don’t try to psychoanalyze me.
I’m not a “right-wing” Pakistani. I support PML-N. There are actual right wing Pakistanis but they are not on this website.
Gandhi ji didn’t want Partition. He was murdered by an RSS supporter. Sorry these are just historical facts.
Pandit Nehru was a secularist and I admire him for that. At the same time, he had a huge ego and refused many opportunities to compromise with Quaid-e-Azam. He believed Congress was the only national party and ML was a “communalist” party. QeA obviously disagreed.
I grew up as a minority in a secular state.
“Just be honest about your biases”– I’m honest about the fact that I love my country of birth. Why don’t you be honest about the fact that you despise Pakistan and Pakistanis?
I do not ‘despise’ Pakistan or Pakistanis. Quite the opposite frankly. I despise the kleptocratic Pakistani military mafia that has enslaved Pakistan and Pakistanis. This is not a rhetorical device, its a genuine belief. But I don’t care enough about getting you to recognize the facts on this. You are free to believe whatever mental concoctions you wish.
You have accused me of being anti-India.
I can make the same argument you just made. I have many many Indian friends from when I grew up in the US. I was heavily involved in Hindustani classical music and that tends to be an Indian diaspora activity.
It’s a different matter that none of my Indian-American friends went out of their way to gratuitously insult Pakistan in front of me. It’s funny how people you know in real life tend to be more sensitive than Internet randos.
You’re entitled to your views on the Pakistani military. From my POV (and that of many Pakistanis) a strong military is required to protect us from India’s hegemony.
Not at all. India hates Pakistan. So does Afghanistan. China is an all-weather friend. Iran and Pakistan seem to be in a good place.
Did I miss anyone?
We live in a tough neighborhood.
The difference is that Pakistan has no pretensions of being the regional hegemon.
lol, because a bankrupt nation that can’t feed or educate its children can’t afford such pretensions.
Passing off necessity as virtue is an old trope, but even attempting it in this case is…hilarious.
“Indo Aryans”? Is your anger against India based on politics, or history, or some sort of concocted racial/ethnic basis?
Is it just Tamils you take issue with? What about other Indian ethnicities? Punjabi, Bihari, Gujarati? Are those tolerable for you?
yet China’s biggest admirers and sycophants are Sinhalas.
That was for Hoju as I know he is a Tamil and his hate for Sinhalese (I am 3/4 Jaffna Tamil)
The Indo Aryan is for a commenter who does not seem to realize there are other kinds of India, I guess they dont understand Pakistanis are Indo Aryans who are Muslim.
Yes, I am angry with Indian Politics, specially their funding and training of LTTE terrorists. This resulted in a 30 year civil war in Sri Lanka
sorry, you are saying the 30 year Sri Lankan civil war is to be blamed on India primarily, and not on the ethnic strife and discrimination within Sri Lanka’s citizens?
I agree that India’s involvement was not all roses to say the least, and grievance is justified.
blamed on India primarily, and not on the ethnic strife and discrimination within Sri Lanka’s citizens?
YES blamed on India primarily
1977: Indira Gandhi decided to fund,train and arm the Tamil LTTE separatists. It was a response to President JR Jayawardene becoming pro US and allowing a VOA station in SL.
1983: As a response to 13 soldiers being killed there was a 3 day pogrom against Tamils lasting 3 days. The worst in SL history and allowed by the JR
1984-1987: War against the LTTE. The LTTE were cornered in Vadamarachi and about to be wiped out. Rajiv Gandhi then air dropped arms and supplied to the LTTE. A clear message, back of out guys the LTTE.
1987: JR a big time political fox asks Rajiv to mediate. Indo Sri Lanka Accord. IPKF comes and LTTE refuses to negotiate.
1987-1990 War between IPKF and LTTE. Many Tamil Civilians killed and Tamil women Raped by IPKF (Indian People Killing Force). IPKF suffered 1,165 personnel killed in action with 3,009 others wounded. The worst in Indian military history. Not by the SL govt, by the very LTTE that India had funded trained.
1991: Rajiv Gandhi assassinated in Tamil Nadu with the help of Indian Tamils
the ethnic strife and discrimination within Sri Lanka’s citizens?
There was no ethnic strife in SL before 1983.
Read up about what was the so called discrimination; The two biggest
a) Uni admissions
b) Language (Sinhala was made official).
I am a Sri Lankan Tamil and lived in the Colombo. The Tamil were a privileged minority (maybe like the Sikhs).and wanted those privileges kept.
India’s intervention was not about reducing discrimination against Tamils. It was to destabilize and control Sri Lanka.
See Major Abhay Sapru on LTTE training in Chakarata
Apparently Chakarata was established with the CIA and trained Tibetan terrorists among many others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
Big brother syndrome is a thing. There is always going to be resentment when you have a country that is an 800 pound gorilla surrounded by smaller ones. It is to be expected, and not to be taken out of proportion, or seen as some sort of betrayal or ingratitude.
To be fair, I think the Indian Government has been learning this lesson over the last couple of decades, and doesn’t really look for public genuflection, focusing more on quiet diplomacy.
But the domestic ‘audience’ in India, has to catch up on this front. The reactions to occasional pushbacks in BD, Nepal etc have been met with such … overly muscular assertions, that really are, just as childish as the ‘provocations’ they are responding to.
By the time of Mahinda Rajapakse in 2005 Israel was no longer a advisor.
China just supplied the arms, but no advise. (Sri Lanka was under an arms embargo by the West)
it was during the presidency of the right-wing J. R. Jayawardene that Sri Lanka first established links with Israeli intelligence in the early 1980s
the organization of intelligence gathering, building an effective information-gathering network and training a paramilitary unit to combat the Tamil insurgents.
Jayawardene government had allowed Israel “to maintain a special interests section under the protection of the United States Embassy” from June 1, 1984.
According to Yass, Israel froze defense exports to Sri Lanka in the mid-2000s
(The paramilitary Units were used for extra judicial killing even in the South against the JVP and other political enemies)
Israel’s Role in Sri Lanka’s Dirty WarThe West slams Pakistan and China for supplying arms used by Sri Lanka in alleged war crimes against Tamils during the civil war but is silent on Israel’s complicity
https://thediplomat.com/2023/07/israels-role-in-sri-lankas-dirty-war/
First of all this flags diagram seems to be made by a Pakistani considering it’s wrong. Let us look at the countries one by one.
Russia:
The USSR literally sent nuclear submarines to India’s rescue in 1971 when India was breaking Pakistan into two.
Even if we go by modern times, the Brahmos missiles taht cratered Pakistani terrorist hideouts and PAF bases had Russian involvement as did the S-400 which prevented Pakistani missiles from doing anything similar in India.
Considering that China has become almost self sufficient in terms of military development, India is the world’s largest importer and funds the Russian MIC. It will remain that way for the next 20-25 years until India itself becomes self sufficient (especially in terms of the jet engine/fighter jets which is the only thing remaining where India isn’t self sufficient. Air defense/missiles India will wean off in 10-15 years).
USA:
In spite of Trump’s posturing USA will never be outright anti-India. India is too big to fall into the rival camp. Trump himself has started changing his tune and the India-US trade talks are well on their way.
Iran:
Iran literally has visa-free access for Indians and not their ummah brothers Pakistan. Also one of the few Muslim countries to recognize India’s claim on Kashmir (at least the parts it controls).
In fact, considering the Baloch issue, Pakistan has more tensions with Iran.
They also recently bombed Pakistani territory, something in common with India I guess.
Saudi Arabia:
The recent defense pact has more to do with Israel and getting nuclear protection.
India is Saudi’s second largest trade partner and Aramco has lots of investment in India.
MBS is not going to go against that.
Good thing is India can use Saudi to keep Pak on its leash
Now the countries which are actually on Pak’s side
Bangladesh:
Bangladesh have been making lots of noise but that is quite common with lots of neighbours (see Maldives,SL) who come in line in a while.
At the end of the day, Bangladesh has only one neighbour (never mind that tiny sliver with Myanmar) which controls all its rivers. Post election, the BNP will mend ties (already in touch now).
Even in the recent war, they stayed neutral nevermind the Gen-Z jamaati vitriol on social media. The Bangladeshi elite knows what’s what.
China:
This is an actual ally. China will always be on Pak’s side simply to cause irritation to India.
Similar to how India does with Afghanistan. If Pak is occupied on the western border (as it is now and has been for the better part of this century), less mischief on the eastern border.
Nothing to do about it but handle it the way it has been handled. Maintain a cold peace with China and keep growing.
Turkey/Azerbaijan:
Combining this into one as Azerbaijan is literally a Turkish satellite state.
This came to me as a bit of a surprise. I would have assumed they would stay neutral like Iran/Saudi considering there really is no advantage to being on Pak’s side.
Maybe Erdogan’s dream of neo-Ottoman empire or hope to procure nukes at a certain point in time.
While Turkey is a decent middle power, this is the extent of their power as their economy has matured.
The power differential vis a vis India will only get lower and I expect a reset at some point, maybe post Erdogan.
The bottom line is:
India is $4.2 trillion economy growing at 6-7% on average with an HDI of 0.685 (0.99% growth per year)
Pakistan is a $370 billion economy growing at 2-3% on average with an HDI of 0.544 (0.71% growth per year)
Everything else is noise.
And for the person who thought Russia is on Pakistan’s side, I just have the clip for you.
https://x.com/Tar21Operator/status/1962350036899221729
At the end of the day, there is only one country who can actually help Pakistan grow and which Pakistanis are loathe to admit – India.
Pakistan at the end of the day has ONE neighbour.
USA is a country on the other side of the world.
China’s population is mostly concentrated in eastern China.
Afghanistan is way poorer.
Iran’s neighbouring regions are sparsely populated.
The vast majority of Pakistan’s population lies on the east close to India.
Why better relations with India help out Pakistan:
Thing about Pakistan is pride. They want to be India’s equal which is simply not possible. Indonesia cannot be China’s equal nor can Mexico be USA’s.
And this pride creates a vicious cycle of trying to match India militarily hence getting poorer than India hence India having bigger defense budgets hence trying to match India militarily and so on.
At some point in the future (a few decades in the future at least) I do believe a reset will happen like it did with East Germany vis a vis West Germany.
North Koreans don’t get to see how South Koreans live.
Pakistanis do.
The constant defeats to India, watching India sending someone into space then getting a space station, hosting the Olympics, getting bullet trains and of course the constant taunts by Indians will eventually have an effect.
It is interesting to see that a lot of Pakistani hawks on social media use memes/references from Bollywood movies not their own.
India’s victory over Pakistan will be like West Germany’s over East Germany’s or the US’s over the USSR’s – cultural and economic.
The comparison to West and East Germany is off. There was a desire on both sides for German reunification. Germans saw themselves as one nation separated by an arbitrary border.
Pakistanis have absolutely zero desire for reunification with India. Especially when we see how the Hindutva regime treats Muslims. Why would we want to be part of an increasingly Hindu majoritarian state?
Relations between India and Pakistan can only improve if India treats Pakistan with the respect due to a sovereign nation state. Otherwise, the current hostility and periodic skirmishes will continue. I don’t see any improvement in relations under Modi.
Pakistanis use references from Bollywood because we are familiar with your films. Hindi/Urdu are essentially the same language. Bollywood is of course much larger than Lollywood. But if you think this reflects some desire for “reunification” it doesn’t.
I’m all for normalization. But this can only happen on terms of mutual respect. India will have to come to the table about Kashmir. India will have to accept Pakistani concerns about interference in Balochistan.
I agree with you that boundaries are not going to change. India would therefore need to stop saying that “POK” will be brought back into India. The Muslims of Azad Kashmir and GB haven’t been part of India since 1947 and neither do they have any desire to join that country given that they can see how Muslims are being treated in India. If you know anything about GB you would know that they want to become a full fledged province of Pakistan. They are not one yet because Pakistan’s government has concerns about what implications annexing a Disputed Territory would have for our case on Occupied Kashmir.
I have repeatedly on the record stated that Pakistan should not use terrorism as a tool of proxy war. But similarly India should not interfere in Balochistan. Yes, I know you will say that it doesn’t but frankly no one in Pakistan believes this.
I think Pakistan has left itself hugely vulnerable to issues in Gilgit Baltistan by not absorbing them into ‘Pakistan proper’ sooner. By giving them ‘Azad’ status, even if its only in name, and in reality its treated as a colony – they have stoked and cultivated a sense of being different. Given the current trend-lines for peace and development in “Indian” J&K, the contrast in socio-economic outcomes is an iceberg for Pakistan.
I agree that its unrealistic for Indians to fantasize about ‘re-gaining’ PoK.
I think an ultimate settlement for Ind-Pak borders in Kashmir ought to include a return of Shardapeeth though.
GB cannot be absorbed into “Pakistan proper” because that would legitimize India’s annexation of Occupied Kashmir. Sorry that’s the Pakistani Foreign Office’s legal advice.
The LOC is the border. No one is going to give you one additional inch of territory.
PakMil is known to trade away any and all possessions of Pakistani state and civilians in order to pursue its objectives. Shaksgam Valley provides historical evidence of this. Among many other things.
So if I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t be able to pull off such… delusional cockiness. But hey, its all good.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1930789
We settled our border with China (pending a final resolution of the Kashmir Dispute). What’s your point?
That chest-thumping about ‘not an inch of territory’ etc etc is not really supported by facts or history. Shaksgam, Bangladesh, etc etc.
Pakistani ‘pride’ has seen them be enthusiastically willing to be rented out by Uncle Sam and Uncle Cheen (and Uncle Saud). The latter may use ‘brotherly’ rhetoric, but clearly views and treats Pakistan as a vassal. Its… surprising to me the degree to which Pakistanis are willing to be subservient to any and everyone simply to sustain hostility with India.
The only context these choices make sense in, is that its an existential choice for the PakMil mafia. Because their incentives are served, and the costs are paid by the civilians, not by them.
The most important thing is that we are able to deter India. Pakistan will not and cannot accept Indian hegemony.
No we are not. You were forced into a ceasefire in four days. You lost aircraft.
Do not test the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. You mess with us again and there will be consequences.
Anyone seen all the birthday wishes Modi is getting from world leaders and celebrities?
https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1968012693178290410
https://x.com/ANI/status/1968184215859499327
how does this matter. Such fluff is unnecessarily elevated and interpreted incorrectly…
I have deleted your last twenty comments as a warning not to do a HS again.
You know what you are doing; despite me asking you not to do that.
continue along those lines I will delete your last 40 comments etc.
There are very strong and obvious parallels to Pakistan for Ukraine. And I would argue not just Ukraine but also Palestine.
Arguably, Israel does not want to see a viable Palestinian state emerge on its borders because it would turn into a Pakistan for itself. A virtually perpetual hostile entity that is willing to sacrifice its own people and future for the sole purpose of sustaining hostility towards its designated ‘enemy’.
And Putin’s desire not to allow Ukraine to turn into a future Pakistan for Russia, is arguably a major factor in him launching the ‘military operation’ that has turned into the ongoing war. Personally, I think its more a re-iteration of his template since his early days in politics, he has successfully used wars/invasions/short-term conflict to cement his rule -whether it be Chechnya, Dagestan, Georgia, or previous instances of conflict with Ukraine.
I would suggest you read the article excerpts which I posted a couple of days ago.
Israel is getting isolated economically and took a lot of damage from Iran’s bombing. Proved the Iron Dome was useless and too expensive.
The Article was written Yves Smith is the pen name of Susan Webber. Not all Jewish people are Gung Ho about Israel, in fact many are critical of what Israel is doing .
https://www.ineteconomics.org/research/experts/yvessmith
“Here is what analysts have to say about the Pak-Saudi defence agreement”
https://www.dawn.com/news/1942902/here-is-what-analysts-have-to-say-about-the-pak-saudi-defence-agreement
According to the agreement, an attack on Pakistan will be considered an attack on Saudi Arabia (and vice versa). This obviously has implications for the next India-Pakistan war.
Saudi-Pakistan treaty (pact?), is probably is best thing that could’ve happened for Indian interests. India can now bomb Pakistani military targets even with more impunity since the nukes can’t be used by Pakistan unilaterally without running the decision by Saudis.
Let’s see. There is no point to a mutual defense pact if both sides aren’t going to come to each other’s aide.
“India can now bomb Pakistan with even more impunity”– You bomb us, we bomb you back. With or without the Saudis. Do not threaten the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
This kind of Indian nationalist wish fulfillment is disgusting and absurd.
Don’t test us.
PAF failed the test quite badly in May 2025. No?
We brought down five planes.
Anyway, we will learn the lessons from this war and apply them to the next one.
Shaheen Shah Afridi hit 30 runs in 15 balls against India. But Pakistan lost the game in a markedly lop-sided fashion and got dominated by India. Op Sindoor is similar, but its interesting to see the RW Pakistani ability to fixate and cherrypick on a sliver of half-truth and fashion a victory out of it.
Its a time-honored tradition of course, but still quite remarkable to see self-identified educated ‘intellectuals’ fall into the same trap.
Comparing a cricket match to a military operation is just foolish.
For Pakistan, a military draw (which is how the world outside of India sees it) is a victory. All we need is to be able to deter India.
Modi ji’s “Pakistan nay ulta ham pe hamla kar diya!” never ceases to be amusing.
For the last time, I’m not Right wing. It’s very very rude to constantly put someone in a category they do not identify with. Remember how you pushed back against being called a “Hindutvadi”?
Metaphors serve a purpose. Universally accepted. Parallels are often drawn to illustrate a point. You know, a general concept in ‘humanities’ education?
Your stance on Pakistani minorities, justification of muslim on muslim atrocities, consistent fixation on muslim rights even when inconsistent with your professed liberalism quite accurately demonstrate your leanings.
By contrast, my atheism, my skepticism of Modi, consistent criticism of anything even remotely non-secular when it comes to issues involving non-hindu Indians, represent my views reasonably accurately.
Like I already spelled out for you, your choice to view me through a certain lens does not concern me. Bigots often accuse others of what they are guilty of. Drumpf is a prominent example of this.
Sir you are on record as defending the Citizenship Amendment Act which was certainly “non-secular”. Proper secular Indians were absolutely appalled by it.
You can consider me whatever you please. You are a rando on the Internet.
Likewise, I consider you a right-wing anti Pakistan troll.
I am done with this conversation.
More than 60% of Pakistan’s population is Punjabi. Punjabis are South Asian whether you like it or not.
More than that Pakistanis are Indo Aryan. Probably more than a person from Mumbai area
“Terrorist” hideouts meaning mosques and schools?
There is no point my arguing with someone is so steeped in Indian propaganda.
Sorry, the entire world doesn’t see this as India’s military victory but as a skirmish which ended in a draw.
President Trump once again stated that he forced India and Pakistan into a ceasefire. He’s going to keep stating that despite how angry it makes India.
“Saudi Arabia & nuclear-armed Pakistan sign defence pact: Tracing their ties & what it means for India”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMDi5mQDbvc
Please listen to Shekhar Gupta’s analysis. He’s not someone who has great love for Pakistan so he should be acceptable to most people on this site.
XTM writes: “Ukraine, like Pakistan, is a breakaway sibling”
This is not factually correct. Russia was not partitioned to form Ukraine. Ukraine was divided between Russia and Poland in 1686. Ukraine was then absorbed into the Russian Empire.
A short-lived Ukrainian People’s Republic was formed in 1917 before Ukraine was absorbed into the USSR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
Pakistan was formed out of parts of British India after an agreement between the Muslim League, the Indian National Congress and the colonial power. So these two situations are not analogous.
If Pakistan had not had nuclear weapons, India would have been able to do to us what Russia has been able to do to Ukraine. So thank God that Pakistan has nuclear capability.