At the Heart of the conflict

Reams of digital pages on this forum have been devoted to Indiaโ€“Pakistan relations and the broader Hinduโ€“Muslim, or Muslimโ€“non-Muslim, conflict. I think most of these discussions miss the crucial issue at the heart of these conflicts.

I will try to navigate to that core. This particular reflection was triggered by a news item that broke recently:

TCS Nashik conversion case widens: Undercover women cops, Malaysia-linked preacher angles surface – India Today

If, twelve years into the Modi governmentโ€™s Hindutva agenda, a dozen educated Muslim employees can allegedly engineer a conversion racket in TCSโ€”with all its POSH and diversity guidelinesโ€”one wonders what Muslim radicals might get away with in majority-Muslim countries.

One doesnโ€™t need to wonder. A Dawn report from 2014 alleged that around 1,000 non-Muslim girls are forcibly converted and married off every year. Even if the number is 100, that is a huge number for 2-3% of population. The demographic change in East Bengal over the last eight decades is a testament to these currents.

The grooming gang scandal in the UK was hushed up for decades, though one might almost expect such things in a โ€œsoft,โ€ โ€œliberalโ€ country like the UK. But even in so-called โ€œsaffron India,โ€ where Muslims are supposedly under danger (as Indian left-wing media would have you believe), one finds dozens of such scandals across states. I will link just one such report:

Family of Man Killed by Girlfriendโ€™s Family Says Killers Told Him to Accept Islam or Call Off Relationship | Swati Goel Sharma

Today, I am not in the mood to conduct a statistical analysis to separate noise from signal. However, when I did this exercise about four years ago, I came across four times as many such stories as those related to beef lynchings. Maybe some other day. These instances may well be noiseโ€”but if this is noise, then the anti-Muslim violence one hears so much about is an even lighter noise.

Has the history of past victories against idolators imbibed so much confidence in the supposedly downtrodden? I would not be surprised if this is spun as revenge against โ€œsystemic Brahmanical corporate discrimination.โ€

Sadly, the behavior of a significant fringe (and what exactly constitutes a fringe?) isnโ€™t the only problem. Sexual crime is widespread in India across communities, but what is alarming is that one hardly sees any prominent Muslim voices being guilt-tripped into public shame. Just imagine the outcryโ€”in global media as well as among Hindus themselvesโ€”if ten Hindu leaders were caught force-feeding Muslim juniors pork.

For liberal Hindus, distancing themselves from their co-religionists isnโ€™t enough; they often go further, masochistically making mountains out of molehills. For liberal Muslims, the initial instinct is to worry about how such incidents will be used to demonize Muslims. This self-preservation instinct was also prevalent in the Valley during the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus.

Take another example: our resident BP author Kabir. Many of his posts focus on rising Hindutva and abuse in India, but I donโ€™t recall him posting about the systemic abuse of Hindu and Christian girls in Pakistan. I am not alleging that he (or others) condone these actions, but the silence itself is systemic.

While I have often argued that this conflict is only nominally historical, I am now wondering whether I was wrong about that.

A famous politician from Hyderabad once said, โ€œHum in Hinduoฬn pe raaj karte theโ€ (โ€œWe used to rule over these Hindusโ€), to a large, cheering audience. The Pakistan project was largely driven by a โ€œwe were rulersโ€ mindsetโ€”but it didnโ€™t stop there.

Why did Pakistan start four wars (or perhaps three, if we ignore 1971) with India despite the size differential? The Pakistani establishment believed it could overcome Indiaโ€™s numerical advantage. Does the history of Islamic victories against idolators continue to imbibe confidence among believers in the 21st century? When Jinnah called for Direct Action Day in a Hindu-majority population, was he thinking along these lines? Did the conspirators in the TCS case draw courage from historical victories such as those of Alauddin Khilji?

This may appear far-fetched to my rational mindโ€”but perhaps those without a rational mind see it differently.

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GauravL

Skeptic | Aspiring writer | Wildlife enthusiast

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X.T.M
Admin
4 hours ago

Excellent post thank you Gaurav.

Exciting stuff happening on the BP front; shall update when done.

As an aside our About Page has been updated.

Kabir
5 hours ago

Just one point (since you directly referenced me).

I have never condoned forced conversions.

I am not going to air my country’s dirty laundry in front of an audience that is mostly made up of citizens of a hostile state. That’s not the action of a patriot. So it’s an unrealistic expectation.

I have no problem criticizing Pakistan when it is warranted.

For example:

https://kabiraltaf.substack.com/p/the-assassination-of-salman-taseer

S Qureishi
S Qureishi
5 hours ago

The Hindu population keeps growing in Pakistan, both as an absolute number and as a percentage of the total. So I don’t understand why Indians keep bringing up this angle. There are a lot of girls that get kidnapped in our poor rural country of 260 million people. Entire kidnapping rackets exist in Pakistan that kidnap Muslim girls, Hindu girls, Christian girls, Shia girls, Sunni girls, just random girls. If a 1000 are Hindus (allegedly), it’s not earth shattering news.

While there is discrimination against Hindus, there is discrimination against many Muslim groups as well.

I would say Indians should be wise to look at their own country. Just recently I saw a video where a Hindu man killed an Indian Muslim man in Bihar and then beaheded his dead body in the middle of a busy street, while onlookers were just making that video chatting away. These types of videos are quite common when you go down the Indian news rabbithole. Dare I even mention the culture or kidnapping girls and doing forced marriages in North India being commonly accepted? But obviously the Indians thinking about how they are a superpower don’t concern themselves with these things, they have to look at a certain neighbouring country.

People getting murdered, lynched, their homes bulldozed, women raped.. these are a common occurence in India. But their fixation is on Muslims, not just in Pakistan but these days around the world.

โ€œHum in Hinduรณn pe raaj karte the”โ€ is just fact, aur lagta hai abhi bhi kar rehey hain unkey dil o dimagh pe.

Indian history is rich and complex both post Islam and pre Islam, and yet it’s unfortunate that Indians (even educated ones) see it through the prism of ‘Hindu-Muslim’ and Pakistan.

RecoveringNewsJunkie
RecoveringNewsJunkie
2 hours ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

to use the word that a fellow commentor often deploys, the views espoused here are ‘problematic’.

Bombay Badshah
1 hour ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

As a percentage of the total – LIE. Hindu population as a percentage has been decreasing from 1981.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Pakistan#Demographics

As an absolute number – Yes. But that is because everyone is increasing in absolute terms. Pakistan is a very poor country with Sub-Saharan Africa socioeconomic indicators like fertility rate and population growth so absolute population increasing is a given.

Pakistan’s TFR is 3.60, in the range of Rwanda, Ghana etc

It is not Indians but Pakistanis who need to come to terms with their history – that they are not Arabs, Turks, Iranians but Indians that too converted Hindus.

Pakistanis are basically the Hindus jiske upar Musalmano ne raaj kiya hazaaron saal that they like claiming.

A people without an identity will never be at peace. This is why Pakistan is in such turmoil.

And unless they make peace with the fact that they are converted Hindus and mend ties with India, their woes will continue and they will be left further behind. They were once one of the richer South Asian countries. Now India, Bangladesh, Nepal have all opened up a gap.

Currently Pakistan is undergoing horrible power cuts and load shedding due to the war. Even the main economic centres like Lahore are not spared, so I can’t even imagine the issues in rural areas.

India has surplus electricity due to depending on domestic coal (India has massive reserves) rather than imported LNG.

If Pakistan had good ties with India, they could have got that electricity to meet shortfalls like the Bangladeshis do.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indias-adani-boosts-electricity-supply-bangladesh-despite-souring-diplomatic-2026-01-28/

Bangladesh is a good example of what happens when you make peace with the past and pursue good ties with India. Massive economic growth for years and now a better economy and a better cricket team than Pakistan.

Last edited 1 hour ago by Bombay Badshah
Bombay Badshah
1 hour ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

As a percentage of the total โ€“ LIE. Hindu population as a percentage has been decreasing from 1981. Wikipedia SS attached.

As an absolute number โ€“ Yes. But that is because everyone is increasing in absolute terms. Pakistan is a very poor country with Sub-Saharan Africa socioeconomic indicators like fertility rate and population growth so absolute population increasing is a given.

Pakistanโ€™s TFR is 3.60, in the range of Rwanda, Ghana etc

It is not Indians but Pakistanis who need to come to terms with their history โ€“ that they are not Arabs, Turks, Iranians but Indians that too converted Hindus.

Pakistanis are basically the Hindus jiske upar Musalmano ne raaj kiya hazaaron saal that they like claiming.

A people without an identity will never be at peace. This is why Pakistan is in such turmoil.

And unless they make peace with the fact that they are converted Hindus and mend ties with India, their woes will continue and they will be left further behind. They were once one of the richer South Asian countries. Now India, Bangladesh, Nepal have all opened up a gap.

Currently Pakistan is undergoing horrible power cuts and load shedding due to the war. Even the main economic centres like Lahore are not spared, so I canโ€™t even imagine the issues in rural areas.

India has surplus electricity due to depending on domestic coal (India has massive reserves) rather than imported LNG.

If Pakistan had good ties with India, they could have got that electricity to meet shortfalls like the Bangladeshis do.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indias-adani-boosts-electricity-supply-bangladesh-despite-souring-diplomatic-2026-01-28/

Bangladesh is a good example of what happens when you make peace with the past and pursue good ties with India. Massive economic growth for years and now a better economy and a better cricket team than Pakistan.

Screenshot-2026-04-15-034956
Last edited 1 hour ago by Bombay Badshah
S Qureishi
S Qureishi
1 hour ago
Reply to  Bombay Badshah

“LIE. Hindu population as a percentage has been decreasing from 1981. Wikipedia SS attached.”

You can’t even read the statistic you are citing properly and you wrote 12 paragraphs on it.

Last edited 1 hour ago by S Qureishi
Bombay Badshah
1 hour ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

Ah yes. Got me on that one but the rest of the paragraphs are valid.

And the percentage is going up simply because Hindus there are mostly rural Sindhis. All of the middle class/urban Hindus have been driven away.

There is no Hindu equivalent of Shahrukh Khan, AR Rahman, Mohammed Siraj etc in Pakistan.

The one Hindu player Pakistan had – Kaneria left and speaks of the frequent discrimination against him.

Even Shoaib Akhtar has corroborated that on public TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt64FtTA5GI

Compare to India where there are multiple non Hindu players.

Recent WC man of tournament was christian, man of match in final was sikh and there was another sikh and muslim player to boot.

Last edited 1 hour ago by Bombay Badshah
X.T.M
Admin
18 minutes ago
Reply to  Bombay Badshah

one cannot now complain that Pakistan doesn’t have enough Upper Caste Hindus when its Hindu population seems to be demographically thriving..

with respect, it’s a bit churlish BB..

Bombay Badshah
7 minutes ago
Reply to  X.T.M

Point is it is easy to champion minorities when they have been defanged and have no power and are on the margins. There is no “thriving” at that point.

An increase in a few decimal points in Rural Sindh where they live in poverty and illiteracy cannot be called “thriving”.

India in reverse still has a lot of Muslims in positions of power/influence (which is what leads to conflict).

A lot of the old money Muslims (including royals) stayed back – Nizam of Hyderabad, Raja of Mahmudabad etc.

Not to deny that there isn’t Hindu-Muslim conflict in India but they arise specifically because Muslims are in number and still have power/influence in various fields (politically in certain areas/media etc).

Where is the Pakistani Hindu Rana Ayub, Arfa Khanum Sherwani, Umar Khalid etc?

Comparing to Hindus in Pakistan is a really bad faith argument.

Last edited 2 minutes ago by Bombay Badshah
Bombay Badshah
50 minutes ago
Reply to  S Qureishi

There is bad stuff which exclusively happens in Pakistan but not India – polio, load shedding, constitutional discrimination of minorities, discrimination of minorities in the cricket, cricket tournaments being hosted without crowds to save petrol etc

And there is good stuff which exclusively happens in India but not Pakistan – space programs, sporting events like Asian Games/Commonwealth Games etc

X.T.M
Admin
19 minutes ago
Reply to  Bombay Badshah

this is high-signal but calm

Deep saran Bhatnagar
Deep saran Bhatnagar
4 hours ago

// While I have often argued that this conflict is only nominally historical, I am now wondering whether I was wrong about that. //

It was historical but that’s just one aspect but most important issue has always been contemporary where Muslims must stop demanding special privileges {most Hindus have always understood this hence you see them making reform vs no reform argument esp in India’s case & celebrate even small victories like triple talaw disqualification}.

Second aspect is honestly abt. community’s internal discourse regarding non-muslims as Muslims from outside the region seem more honest abt. their beliefs instead of obfuscationary approach of subcontinental Muslims & that’s why i like perilious intimacies book as it highlights community discourse.

The point is H-M issue in subcontinent has always had both aspects but historical debates dominate the space due to scholarly weight but if one considers social media & intra-Hindu debate then i would argue that it is an equal split or maybe slightly more in favor of contemporary issues emanating from adoption of bad colonial laws {setting template for Muslims to demand special rights elsewhere}, religion & institution entanglement like govt. controlling temples while minorites have full control of their religious institutions etc.

// For liberal Hindus, distancing themselves from their co-religionists isnโ€™t enough; they often go further, masochistically making mountains out of molehills. For liberal Muslims, the initial instinct is to worry about how such incidents will be used to demonize Muslims. This self-preservation instinct was also prevalent in the Valley during the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus. //

Has been the case as observed by colonizers themselves, Churchill – While the Hindu elaborates his argument, the Moslem sharpens his sword.

Churchill referencce – https://www.ukpol.co.uk/winston-churchill-1931-duty-in-india-speech/

Last edited 4 hours ago by Deep Bhatnagar
El Khawaja
El Khawaja
4 hours ago

Not exactly sure what a domestic religious dispute in India, especially deep within southern India, has to do with Pakistan and why exactly is this being used to smear Pakistan.

Interestingly, this company (TCS) that’s at the center of this scandal is also notorious in America for being a bodyshopper and where I live there are investigations currently looking into their illegal and unethical practices.

Bombay Badshah
1 hour ago
Reply to  El Khawaja

Because it stems from the same origin – after all Pakistanis, as loathe as they are to admit it are “Muslim Indians”.

Also I have seen your antipathy towards Indian tech companies/techies. I assume it comes from a place of envy due to lack of similar success of Pakistani counterparts. You said you grew up in Pakistan so I assume in the tech scene in US, you are outnumber by Indians at a very high ratio, including superiors. So I get where your animosity comes from.

Anyways, where is the Pakistani equivalent of TCS? Or are Pakistani “techies” relegated to doing simple jobs on Fiver?

El Khawaja
El Khawaja
50 minutes ago
Reply to  Bombay Badshah

My antipathy towards Indian tech companies and h1b workers is a shared concern that most Americans have right now. It’s not due to “envy” or “success” (whatever that entails). Indians do outnumber most national origin groups, so outnumbering Pakistanis isn’t a big feat but what the Pakistani community does have going for us is that most of us are US citizens whereas the overwhelming majority of Indians are are on work visas. The main gripe we have here is the changing social fabric of our cities and neighborhoods and how our immigration system, economic and financial institutions have been gamed.

X.T.M
Admin
20 minutes ago
Reply to  El Khawaja

WASPs probably say the same thing about Muslims etc?

Brown Pundits
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