Caste and the Structure of Discourse

I’ve come to realise that it’s often more productive to write full posts than to engage in fragmented comment threads. The richness of thought requires a form that can hold tension, contradiction, and nuance but comments, by design, resist that.

The Upper-Caste Template of South Asian Dharmic Discourse

Take, for example, sbarrkum, who shares personal reflections and images from his life on the common board. While one might raise questions about permissions or boundaries, it’s also important to respect dialectical differences in how people choose to engage. There’s no single valid mode of expression.

That brings me to a broader reflection: how the very structure of discourse in Dharmic South Asia has long been shaped by upper-caste templates; especially under Western influence. Over two centuries, upper castes have Brahmanised, Saffronised, Persianised, and then Westernised themselves, adopting and enforcing norms of discourse, authority, and ‘rationality.’

Why Intermarriage Doesn’t Erase Hierarchy

Dave asked me to elaborate on  why I don’t think mixed-caste marriages necessarily reduce casteism. The truth is: not necessarily. Ashkenazi–Sephardic intermarriage in Israel is very high, yet the Ashkenazi elite persists. Intermarriage can often act as a tool of co-option, drawing the most dynamic individuals from marginalised communities into a hegemonic order; thus reinforcing it.

Caste, like race in the U.S., is resilient. Just as white ethnics in America assimilated into the WASP paradigm, who in turn set the tone for elite society, upper castes in India continue to dominate norms and institutions. Caste persists even when it isn’t named, even when people don’t know their own caste (it is a privilege not to know your caste as it is not to be aware of your race). And like the WASPs, the Brahminical elite have adapted and survived where other aristocracies, the Prussian Junkers, the Samurai, were dismantled.

Caste as Structure: The Elite That Adapted

This is not to demonise Brahmins or Brahmanism (though the idea of India as a Brahminical construct is a compelling topic in itself), but to analyse the structure. We must recognise the privileges that come with Brahminical pedigree; seen clearly in figures like Nehru, who shaped India in the image of both British liberalism and Indo-Saracenic elitism.

Interestingly, Narendra Modi, who is not upper-caste, is now arguably a more effective agent of upper-caste interests than many Brahmins (Jayalalitha and Mamata Banerjee come to mind as Brahmins who do not serve their caste interests). His ally, Amit Shah, certainly fits within that upper-caste mould. These contradictions deserve scrutiny, not denial.

Triggered by Art: Why That’s Good

Yes, a film about caste and minority experience has triggered all this (the Left-Liberal-Lutyen crowd have their own agenda bien Sur).

We now have a rare moment, a clean space free from heckling or noise, where we can go deep. We can interrogate caste, critique our own identities and faiths (admittedly, I sometimes remove my own interrogations—but is BP about me, or about the Commentariat?). I am, after all, the damād of Hindu Sindh; but this space is larger than mere biography. We should use this moment well.

So no, I’m not necessarily offended by what sbarrkum wrote; though he challenges me often. He has his style, his rhythm, his provocation and that makes the space, richer as a result.

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Indosaurus
2 months ago

Just want to add a few points. Caste is also very much a mindspace. A tribal allegiance, a primal sense of belonging. Inter marriage does void a lot of those concepts. When caste barriers of marriage, profession, education and wealth dissolve and amalgamate the allegiance shifts – to the caste grouping (lower or upper).

Karnataka is/was introducing a Rohit Vemula bill to complement the existing SC/ST atrocity act.

The details of that case provide an insight into complex caste dynamics in India. Neither his father nor his mother were SC according to common societal understanding (she was adopted at a young age), Rohit himself joined Uni with an SC certificate & identified with SC causes, agitating heavily on their behalf, eventually committing suicide. The reporting around this is very messy & politicized & there are bizarre court rulings claiming that adoption or marriage does not change a caste etc.

Identification of oneself plays a very large part in caste. Very much so in modern urban India.

Growing up without a caste identity might be a privilege, but it is also an excellent start to ending a depraved system.

brown
brown
1 month ago
Reply to  Indosaurus

how does one define a dalit? based on his jati ( i.e birth), or by class ( all oppressed are dalits) ? i feel it should be by jati. that is why many disputed the dalit ‘status’ of rohit.
a strange thing is happening in south india. people belonging to middle castes ( reddys, gowdas, some lingayaths, ) who rule the village life and are main oppressors of ‘dalits’, suddenly become their brethren in cities and cry ‘oppression’, eulogise ambedkar, corner reservations and bad mouth brahmins as oppressors!!

Indosaurus
1 month ago
Reply to  brown

Typically it is done by Jati.
In todays political oppression games, caste politics and draconian laws spawn new abusive behaviour. If you go around recording that you are very pro-ambedkar the chance of getting booked in an SC/ST atrocity case goes down.

The reporting around Rohith’s case too is emblematic of this incentive to identify as Dalit.
Rohith’s brother is quoted by the press as – living an enduring shame where his mother was secretly a servant in her own house. (He too is availing reservations which by law should not be accessible to him).
Meanwhile the grandmother says they arranged daughters marriage within their caste and took the daughter back in after her marriage failed (Grandmother had lost her child and adopted the mother declaring she didn’t believe in caste). She is now being called an exploiter. Media and politicians had a field day.

In practice most historical caste oppression was enforced by the politically dominant (regardless of their religion or caste) with the Brahmin both encouraging and providing scriptural cover, inflating their own role (and importance) on paper. This has come back to bite. The non-Brahmin castes didn’t record their abuse and are free to turn around and pin the blame, exacerbated by their own resentments.

There are ways out of this quagmire. Brahmins can start by training Dalit priests to take over temple & ritual duties.

brown
brown
1 month ago
Reply to  X.T.M

in karnataka every body other than brahmins are obcs and sc,st.

brown
brown
1 month ago
Reply to  X.T.M

to a great extent yes, but not necessarily, there is a vaisya layer called ‘arya vaisya’, who speak telugu, in ap/tn, tamil nadu and karnataka.
kshtriyas are more curious, mostly today’s obcs were kings who got their lineages defined by brahmins.

sbarrkum
2 months ago

Racism in the US will not end. That is because the underlying is skin color. If you got enough white and the features one can “pass” as some African Americans and Indians (Nikki Haley) have done.

Hinduism is the basis for caste in India.

In Sri Lanka there is no longer caste* among the Sinhalese. Has been replaced by Access to Political Power and Wealth
Buddhism does not acknowledge caste

So whats the solution, everyone become brown and communism. I think not, humans will find ways of dividing society.

Daves
Daves
2 months ago

I find myself nodding in agreement to so much of what you write. But that last line…didn’t sit well with me. Sure you are not offended by what sbarkum says, but that’s neither here nor there. Hypothetically, if he had used similarly aggressive rhetoric about the Baha’i, or something that you identify with, maybe it would be different?

Indosaurus
2 months ago
Reply to  Daves

Well, it isn’t really a hypothetical, you can read the exchange starting here.

https://www.brownpundits.com/2025/09/13/the-pakistani-inferiority-complex/#comment-118001

Indosaurus
Indosaurus
2 months ago
Reply to  X.T.M

Personally I think you have a very difficult job moderating the site. You are also exceedingly polite in that exchange, it is quite admirable indeed, perhaps I should haves said while linking the comment. You come across better than you think xtm.

I get that you can look at my hyper linking of your exchange as weaponization of your own words. It was a misjudgment on my part, I thought it would help elucidate Daves point better (which I do agree with). If intent counts for anything, it was in the spirit of egalitarian exploration of personal biases, which we all carry. This blog should never be about hurting people, and so for that I do apologize.

sbarrkum
2 months ago
Reply to  X.T.M

I also think as BP becomes a more “Dharmic space” that allows us to have a safe space to interrogate what that means.

BP is not very Inclusive, even for Indians

No Indian Muslims
No Indian Christians (Tamil Nadu has 6.2% a little less than Sri Lankas 10%, Kerala 18%)
None of the North East non Indo Aryan minorities.

Thats why I think Indo Aryan types are Insular. They do not have insights into other regions of multi cultural India

sbarrkum
2 months ago
Reply to  X.T.M

XTM

When you claimed you were a Zionist. Then went on to say Hamas is eliminated, I became suspicious of the Bahai faith.

Found that Bahai have deep links to Israel.

I also got the impression you really did not know the violent history of Zionism.

I was a big fan of Israel till I went to the US and started to read the other side of the story.
Till then I saw parallels of Israel to Sri Lanka and fighting big bullies next door.
I read many Leon Uris novels which I now realize were Zionist propaganda. Also James Michner The Source, which I thought later was Jewish propaganda to justify claim to Israel

The Source is a historical novel by James A. Michener published in 1965
It is a survey of the history of the Jewish people and the land of Israel from pre-monotheistic days through the birth of the modern State of Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Source_(novel)

sbarrkum
1 month ago
Reply to  X.T.M

Written in 1947

Daves
Daves
2 months ago
Reply to  X.T.M

yes, that is a fair point. And honestly, I don’t want you to at all feel defensive about your identity. Heck, I don’t even want Kabir to feel that way about his.

Anyway, my point was more about how a third person’s clearly inaccurate comments are being somehow deemed acceptable. Not about anyone’s identity. I apologize if it came across that way.

Brown Pundits