Everyone; please do not violate our rules egregiously. If moderation collapses, I will stop doing it. And if that happens, the comment boards will descend into noise very quickly. That helps no one.
The comments are growing again after a lull, which is a good sign. But it also puts real strain on time. I would rather focus on writing and commissioning strong posts than constantly firefighting threads. If you value the quality of this space, help maintain it.
If anyone would like to volunteer as a balanced and fair moderator, step forward. Not a partisan enforcer. Not a factional referee. Someone steady. I have given BB authorship privileges because Kabir, while diligent, is beginning to police too aggressively, and BB, when restrained, can bring levity without venom. That balance matters.
On a separate note, a thought. Bharat, that is, India in her most sublime and civilizational sense, possesses something like sacred geography. Rivers, mountains, pilgrimage circuits. The land itself carries immense metaphysical weight as both the home and centre of Dharma.
Pakistan, by contrast, was founded less on geography than on mission. It has an animating purpose, often framed as unifying or protecting the Ummah, ย but that is not the same thing as sacred land. One is spatial and civilizational; the other is ideological and directional. They are not equivalents, and confusion between them produces bad arguments.
Keep the debates sharp. Keep them serious. But keep them civil. If moderation fails, everyone loses.
This is a simplification of course
In order for there to be civilized debate, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of nation states must be respected. Your posts from yesterday set out that principle and it should be adhered to going forward.
Incessant fantasizing about “liberating” Balochistan from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is extremely offensive.
I am happy to ignore BB and RNJ going forward but I will not tolerate personal bullying. I have been subjected to homophobia and transphobia from BB. This is not on. He has also slandered me by saying that i have been “deported” from the US. This is not acceptable rhetoric. RNJ has also been consistently nasty to me.
Any personal remarks towards me will be called out.
It is your right to make whoever you please an author. I do question, however, why someone who has consistently engaged in trollish behavior is being given this privilege.
I will not allow comments from BB and RNJ on my threads. That’s a red line. I’m not going to tolerate either anti-Pakistan remarks or personal nastiness towards me.
I don’t why does it matter that the holiest sites lie for both Indian and Pakistani in Saudi Arabia and Palestine.
The various Mazars in Multan,Pakpattan and Lahore are holy sites for many Pakistani muslims just like Ajmer Sharif,Nizamuddin and Haji Ali are for Indian muslims
โAt the end of the film Malyalam Ustad hotel, the grandfather, Kareem Ikka (played by Thilakan), goes on a pilgrimage to the Ajmer Sharif Dargah in Rajasthan.
Indus nationalism has been around in Aitzaz Ahsan’s book published around 30 years
Yes great comment
Agreed. Many Pakistani Muslims would love to visit Ajmer Sharif and Nizamuddin. Unfortunately, the current low ebb in relations makes this impossible–even for those of us with foreign citizenship.
Nankana Sahab and Kartarpur Sahab are holy to Sikhs. Both are located within Pakistan.
At “Thinkfest” held in Lahore a few weeks ago, Sam Dalrymple was the only person who was able to come from India. This is because he has British citizenship. Deepa Mehta did present at the Lahore Literary Festival but once again she has Canadian citizenship.
Indus nationalism is an attempt to re-frame Pakistani nationalism in a way that doesn’t depend so much on the “Two Nation Theory”. Aitzaz Ahsan has long been associated with the Pakistan People’s Party, which is a center-left party on the Pakistani political spectrum. How successful or unsuccessful this attempt has been is a different topic of discussion. Personally, I haven’t read Aitzaz Sahab’s book.
I will note that the TNT is taught in all Pakistani schools as part of “Pakistan Studies” (essentially state propaganda). TNT is also the official “ideology of Pakistan”.
ajmer, nizamuddin etc none of this is sacred to muslims. Their main sites are in Saufi arabia. Unlike jews who have holy purpose in Israel, muslims have none in India.
This is simplistic
I’m curious about this Indus nationalism – its a new term for me. Can you elaborate?
Agree, that identity need not be restricted or overly dependent on geography. I think that’s unnecessarily self-limiting.
Aitizaz Ahsan wrote a book entitled “The Indus Saga and the Making of Pakistan”. It was written in 1997.
It hasn’t really caught on as a concept. TNT remains the official “ideology of Pakistan”.
Itโs been growing since the 90โs
oh is this the construct on how supposedly the residents on the banks of Indus are somehow ‘different’ than those on the banks of the Ganga?
Yeah, color me….deeply skeptical of such ….theories.
Indus is the crucible where Hinduism was formed and Gangetic belt is where it was transplanted. The Eastward creep of Hinduism continues. The history of India is the history of this transplantation.
Hinduism has only influenced Westward and Eastward.
It’s the Hindu Numeral System after all
Hinduism has only influenced Westward and Eastward.
I would argue not as much as African music which has permeated in every corner of the world.
Then there are “caste” marks. i.e. face and body “Tribal” paint that originated in Africa and has been in South India and spread all the way to Australia for centuries
true those are good observations.
African music has spread with the African diaspora – both the willing and the enslaved.
Anyway, why must it be some sort of ‘competitive’ comparison on what influence has spread wider.
We are humans, not only is our culture… mongrel/fusion, but so is our DNA.
Pakistan has the old world Mughal charm, the Punjabi spice, the Kashmiri softness, the Pashtun rugged beauty and the Sindhi pride.
India has the mellow softness of the bihari, the nerdiness of the madrasi, the revolutionary verve of the bangali and the gujarati guile.
They are both unique in their own way.
Except for the fact that the Kashmir valley lies completely under Indian control, the vast majority of the Mughal Empire including almost all of the famous monuments/tombs also lie withing Indian territory as well as half of pre-partition Punjab.
Pakistan once had the revolutionary verve of the Bengali but they did a revolution too many.
Are you rhyming with yourself?
Not me at all. Like I said, check IPs.
Rhyming with oneself is a lot of fun.
on a more serious note, badshah ji, Kashmir is the shah rag-e Pakistan and Kashmiris are true Muslims who will side with Pakistan any day of the week and especially on Fridays. My Pakistani girlfriend is Kashmiri actually.
i am not sure why you act as if you are offended all the time. live and let live bro. Inferiority complex about Pakistan will eat you from the inside bro.
Naah bro, why should I have an inferiority complex about a country which is inferior to India in every way?
I have a superiority complex vis a vis Pak.
And Kashmiris did chugli to Indian forces in 48 and 65.
India has the mellow softness of the bihari, the nerdiness of the madrasi, the revolutionary verve of the bangali and the gujarati guile.
Nice summary
Exactly. Thank you. Big fan of you sbarrkum. why are badshah jiโs knickers in such a twist?
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Macha, good to see you have such positive relations with sbarrkum considering what the Sinhalese did to the Tamil.
We need to see this kind of bonhomie in the Indian subcontinent.
I didn’t like when your CSK banned their players. Their greatest player Muralithanran is also a Tamil like you. He also played in CSK and has an OCI card.
CSK forever. Whistle Podu!!!!