170 thoughts on “Open Thread – 07/03/2021 – Brown Pundits”

  1. The excerpt from it published in the print was pretty derivative and unintelligent imo.
    Especially about Aryans Harappans and caste wrt DNA.

    1. Agreed. Indo Aryan ancestry and fair skin peaking in upper castes means it was introduced from the Aryan substrate? But the Aryan substrate was the most active in the mixing period. What about the peaking of the Iran like ancestry in the non uc non dalit Dravidian population in South India? People need to separate jati from varna.

    1. From the article

      “How does Narendra Modi’s BJP get around it? They appeal sharply and unhesitatingly to the Hindu-Indian identity. They’ve already discounted the minority, especially Muslim voters. They won’t ever vote for us, you see, so dear Hindus, will more of you vote for us, or will you rather give a minority a veto on who rules India? It is a language voters understand. In most states, if they win more than half the Hindu vote, they are home. In West Bengal, the need was steeper, more like 60-65 per cent, so they failed.

      It follows that because Muslims mostly vote against the BJP, it is painted as a vote against the Hindus. Eighty-one versus 15 is game, set and match before the ball is served. Barring in states where other determinants of identity are more dominant. As in Tamil Nadu.”

      Two states stand out Tamil Nadu and West Bengal. What’s common b/w them. You know the answer, by applying my theory 🙂

      1. BJP went from nobody to being the opposition in WB, BJP clearly appeals to a significant chunk of Bengali voters.

        However, BJP can’t feed Tamils the boilerplate narrative of Muslims Vs Hindus because Tamils aren’t emotionally invested in the history of Delhi/North based empires. Marathas,Mughals,Guptas,Sikhs,Mauryas&Rajputs etc etc don’t capture the imagination of the average Tamilian. Tamils are only passionate about “their” Imperial history ie:Cholas,Cheras,Pandyas etc this doesn’t lend itself to a Pan-Indian Narrative.

        1. As i have said earlier, the less-Hindu-ism operates on a spectrum, so yeah BJP is less of a failure in WB than in Tamil Nadu.

          Looking at Bengal’s history, i doubt BJP rise is sustainable, more flash in a pan. Its vote in Bengal is mostly a opposition to TMC vote rather than BJPs vote. Any opposition which would have seemed coherent (like the BJP did this time around) would have got that. Its same same number Left+Congress got last election. So no surprises there.

          Overall Bengal is far too less-Hindu for BJP to win.

        2. @Enigma

          Good summary. The BJP needs a new gear to operate in regions where Hindus have flourished culturally and possessed operational empires. The anti-Muslim gameplay works only for regions where Muslims are dominant today. No sense in prescribing hemorrhoid cream to those who don’t suffer 🙂

  4. I like the aesthetic and presentation of the Namit Arora book. Its messaging is on point. I have been in some restaurants, where in order to get to the stalls, I have had to follow the hand gestures of the intern, the head chef, his mistress and the landlord of the place. Putting Pankaj Mishra’s review on the top is just genius – like drawing glow lines on the floor from every table to the urinal. The Indian RW is happy!

    I haven’t seen a peep from Romila – she has been the chief motivator for Indian RW historians for close on three decades now. She was active even two years ago (“Yudisthira was inspired by Ashoka”). We can’t afford to lose her!!

    I still have hopes for a very good replacement – Rahul Gandhi. I will not consider this guy’s karma done until he plugs AIT on his twitter timeline.

  5. aamir khan is single. each of his marriages lasts for 15 years. hope this time he is not accused of love jihad and will marry a proper muslim.

      1. he is, as opposed to salman khan who does a ganesh arati. also as a symbol it does matter considering the sentiments expressed in the latest pew survey.

    1. Nothing out of the ordinary. Its an initiation of a bureacratic “verify and close” operation by the French equivalent of our CAG to check an allegation filed by an French NGO (called Sherpa).

      That NGO is mainly funded by a British NGO called Sigrid Rausing Trust. That British NGO was opened by Sigrid Rausing – a Swedish businesswoman.

    1. is it a fair assessment that post 1962 war, india has lost more territory to china under modi than any other PM?

      1. Hard to say. Indian gov don’t even know the full degree of encroachment. They rely on anecdotal reports of people like herders to tell them that certain pastures that were once India now have Chinese settlements.

        China is very tough rival. And these places are logistically expensive and sparsely inhabited. It is hard to compete with them here. More resources we divert to defense, the more Pak salivates

      2. there is lot of fog right now. I doubt India ever had a meaningful control over these areas. As infra was built in last 7 years to reach these areas, China pre-empted us.

    1. Dont take Sushant Singh seriously. He thinks there can be peace with Pakistan.

    1. The American strategic community havent evolved any kind of clear and consistent view of China. ‘Extreme competition’ ? Are the US and China like Intel and AMD ?

      There is a very clear reluctance to clearly acknowledge the danger China poses for its neighbours, like the danger from the Soviet Union was acknowledged. Also, it is going to be very difficult for the US to form a useful partnership with India if its strategic experts construe parliamentary jurisdiction over J&K as problematic.

      Fundamentally, what complicates the matter is that the US desire to maintain strategic and commercial relations with both of India’s hostile neighbours. The US has its own reasons and compulsions to do so. But perhaps we can now appreciate why India always had to look towards partners other than the US after independence.

      1. @Vikram

        The American strategic community havent evolved any kind of clear and consistent view of China.

        They have. It simply differs from India’s assessment, which is much more hawkish. This is a combination of several factors; the US is fundamentally not militarily threatened by China (if anything, the reverse, given the plurality of US bases in China’s vicinity).

        American firms have deep investments within China. The profits that these enterprises generate are much larger today than they were 10 years ago and they keep increasing rapidly. Apple gets something like 25-30% of its global profits from China now. It’s far from alone.

        There is a very clear reluctance to clearly acknowledge the danger China poses for its neighbours, like the danger from the Soviet Union was acknowledged.

        India is a different beast than Germany. Germany could be swallowed by the USSR, as could the Nordics. But nobody really expects India to be overrun, not just because of its size but also the nukes.

        it is going to be very difficult for the US to form a useful partnership with India if its strategic experts construe parliamentary jurisdiction over J&K as problematic.

        This is on India as much as the US, not that I think India’s position on J&K are wrong. I just think India needs to be clearheaded about the fact that liberals, and increasing radical woke liberals, are running the ship in America. Modi embraces the US even as its deep state seeks his ouster. Pretty cucked.

        Fundamentally, what complicates the matter is that the US desire to maintain strategic and commercial relations with both of India’s hostile neighbours. The US has its own reasons and compulsions to do so. But perhaps we can now appreciate why India always had to look towards partners other than the US after independence.

        I don’t disagree, but India pre-emptively abandoned non-alignment and ran into America’s embrace, unwisely in my view, and now it is discovering the limitations of that approach.

        1. @principia, there is indeed a shift in America’s internal ideology towards reparations and social justice, away from economic growth and technological progress. India’s particular vulnerability to mostly unjustified accusations of minority discrimination only makes the problem harder.

          It doesnt help though that the current dispensation in Delhi is rather ambivalent about core democratic values and is resentful of almost any criticism. It is hard to call Modi a statesman after 7 years of rule. The BJP seems to have an almost paranoid fear of free speech, despite long run free speech outcomes favoring Hindus over other groups.

    2. I do wish India had the balls+skills to attempt assassinating Hafeez Saeed. Mossad rocks.

  24. https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/china-had-made-india-all-the-quad

    “India also seeks greater recognition from the other Quad members for its concerns and interests in the western half of the Indo-Pacific. Privately, a consistent refrain from Indian strategists is the Quad seeks more Indian involvement in confronting China on high-priority issues for Australia, Japan, and the United States: the territorial disputes in the South China and East China Seas, the threats posed by Chinese espionage and technology ambitions, and Chinese repression in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Hong Kong.

    By contrast, its Quad partners have not always been comparably engaged with China’s belligerent behavior at the disputed China-India border and its expanding political, military, and economic footprint in South Asia and the Indian Ocean, including its burgeoning strategic partnership with Pakistan. Nor have they proposed a robust agenda for trade and economic development initiatives on the subcontinent.

    Those invested in the Quad’s success have much to celebrate this year. But as they look to the future, they need to keep a finger on the pulse in New Delhi and ensure the “Indo” half of the Indo-Pacific does not go neglected.”

    Yup

      1. Pakistan is going to lose KP when Taliban comes to power. They are furious and restless and trying to make sure it doesn’t happen

        1. Shashank,
          Is this a cope for the billions of dollars of Indian investment evaporating in Afghanistan? Because sure seems like it. :p If anything, Pakistan is adding Afghanistan to it’s domain of influence now. There are more Pasthuns in Pakistan than in Afghanistan, and not just in KP. Influence flows only one way here. Taliban are basically ”Pakistanis taking over Afghanistan” as many in Kabul would tell you.

  27. china has had a century of foreign rule and it officially resents it. north india has had more than a 1000 years of foreign rule, if north indians resent the muslim rule they are treated as some cry babies. this has happened in these columns.
    i feel that the official narrative of freedom from british has deprived hindus of a victory. any other views?

    1. Brahmins/UC can resent the 1000 year rule.. all others should be resenting for 3500 years, maybe more.

      1. @S_Qureishi Pakistanis don’t really know the extent of power sharing that Hindu leadership has done with the lower castes – OBCs, SCs, STs. 50%+ of higher education seats as well as government jobs are reserved. Not to mention the scholarships and freeships (SC candidates pay 30-50% of fees).

        It reflects in political leadership too (contrast this with Muslims), BJP has leaders from almost all castes (including Yadavs in UP). A popular Yadav actor – Nirahua – ran opposing Akhilesh Yadav (former CM) in Azamgarh and won substantial amount of votes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azamgarh_(Lok_Sabha_constituency).

        @Ugra made a comment about middle caste Hindus or North India having made peace with Muslims. Nothing can be farther from truth. Muslims and Yadavs fight pretty often. Look up cases in Bihar in the past 1 month – small scale riots. Do not confuse the leadership of a caste with the caste itself.

        > RJB was a unique mass movement where the masses were inverted – they came from the upper castes while the OBC leadership opposed it.

        Kalyan Singh is a Kurmi (i.e. OBC). If you want examples from the youth, look up Elvish Yadav’s – a popular YouTuber – social media.

        > Even today the typical North Indian media journalist is a typical deracinated Gangetic OBC who have made it their mission to oppose Hindutva.

        Name one Yadav journalist (Yadav leadership – both Mulayam and Lalu – were at forefront of opposing RJB).

        1. @fragment.. The present is irrelevant, the point made is about the past and Hindutva’s selective amnesia.

          1. @S_Qureishi the present IS relevant. Had the Muslim leadership agreed on just three sites (of hundreds or even thousands) viz. Kashi, Mathura and Ayodhya – the bad blood between Hindus and Muslims would have been forgotten.

            There’s no selective amnesia about what the Brahmins and Thakurs did to us. We know and are reminded of that pretty often. That does not mean that we forgive the sins of Muslim invaders.

            For e.g.: The Shahi Eidgah that stands over Mathura – the birth place of Bhagawan Krishna, a deity of us Yadavs – isn’t forgotten by any Yadav irrespective of what a Lalu or Mulayam or Akhilesh says.

        2. @fragment_and_activities

          A sweeping generalization can lead to exceptions, like you point out. Thats not my intention.

          The OBC populace of the Gangetic Plains have become used to Muslim symbols of dominance. They have learned to live with it. Always keep in mind – that where OBCs do not take part in a struggle, that one is doomed. There are exceptions of course – your point is taken!!

          Kannadiga OBCs fight to have the AHINDA model (BJP, JD and Congress) which revolves around destruction of socio-economic inequalities but preservation of the Hindu cultural order. Ditto for Tamil OBCs, the Dravidian project is the sacralisation of Sangam Tamil – whose major exponents were Hindu icons like Tiruvalluvar and Rajaraja Chola.

          It took a national campaign by a Sindhi to get the RJB movement going. Don’t you find that strange?? Ideally it should have been a OBC campaign from the Gangetic heartland.

          Tell me – what is the political play book history so far – who decided to oppose Kamandal with Mandal? Who successfully created a coalition of Muslims and Yadavs to hold power for 15 long years in Bihar?

          I will tell you with dead certainty – if not for the sustained efforts of one Sindhi, two Gujjus and many Marathas – the Gangetic OBC order would have prevented the resolution of the RJB issue.

          Just see the difference in the verdicts between Allahabad HC and Supreme Court.

          The natural home of Indian secularism is UP/Bihar, this is the nursery of the politics of the Nehru-Gandhis, this is the well from which gullible OBCs repeatedly opposed the phenomenon of Hindutva from Western/Deccan India.

          1. Don’t get me started with Allahabad HC. Filled with Communists. Had gone with a cousin to see a girl for his marriage. The girls lawyer was a pakka Communist. Father too was a just a shade lighter. काम पकड़ लिए, इलाहाबाद वालों से अउर वकीलों से लम्बे रहेंगे.

            Note that Allahabad HC doesn’t have many OBC judges, almost all are UCs. Judiciary in UP/Bihar is in hands of secular savarna type.

            Allahabad HC is so bad(both corruption and judgment wise) that even Justice Katju calls it a cesspool.

      2. @S Qureishi, i know where you are coming from. i must say your understanding of india and hindu society is stale. you seem to be stuck in some sort of time warp. upper castes vs lower castes, N indians vs S indians etc are really 80s and 90s debates. india has moved on. hindus have moved on.

        hindu society is much more cohesive now than it was back then. there is far less public discourse on casteism and regionalism than it was in earlier decades. any one who stays current with indian media can observe that. the flip side is that hindus have become more distanced from muslims and other minorities. the old “hindu muslim bhai bhai” kind of corny and cheeky pluralism is openly mocked now. (just observing it as a matter of fact. not passing judgement whether it is a positive or negative development. it is what it is.)

        conclusion, get up-to-date with indian political discourse before participating in it.

        1. I wouldn’t fault Qureishi considering Indians themselves seem to parrot the same old lines.

          1. “Outside of N-India folks dont realise how Hindu-ized N-Indian OBCs are. Or for that matter even dalits looking at OBCs of other regions who move on Language/caste/regional vector rather than Hindu vector.”
            That’s one way to put a positive spin on herd mentality. They have yet to develop a common ethnic consciousnesses and the only binding common identity they’ve got left is a servile loyalty to their religion. They’re feudal subjects, basically.

            “assuming just as Hinduism is skin deep in East/South, so it is in N-India”
            Having no binding Identity besides Hinduism does not make them “Super Hindus”. The same thing applies to woke clowns, just because they have no loyalty to their own desi heritage doesn’t mean they’re more “modern”. Ethnically conscious Hindus assert their Individuality and refuse to be a part of some dumb Hindu State Project built on the PTSD of Islamic Invasions, they’re smart.

          2. There is no positive spin to it. Why is servile loyalty to language and region superior to loyalty to religion. Did u choose to be born in a region or language? So why so much pride?

            Plus everyone in N-India has other identities apart from Hinduism. It would be akin for me to say that everyone in South just has ethnic identities and nothing else. Now i could assume that or educate myself further 🙂

          3. Why is loyalty to language and region superior to loyalty to religion?
            My point was that it’s a false dichotomy, you can be equally loyal to both and not compromise one for the other.

            The stupidest thing in Indian Politics is the presumed primacy of a Uniform All-Encompassing Identity. Hinduism is all-encompassing(almost) but it’s NOT uniform and you run into roadblocks like Assamese Hindus telling persecuted Bengali Hindu Migrants to fuck off with their CAB because they care more about maintaining their Assamese majority and remember, BJP rules this state.

            When push comes to shove, Ethnic Hindus will turn their backs on “Greater Hindutva”.
            The only identity truly uniform identity in India is Race, but no one is prideful about racial identity.

            Plus everyone in N-India has other identities apart from Hinduism.
            I said that they haven’t yet developed a strong ethnic consciousness, not that they don’t have an ethnicities.

          4. There is no false dichotomy. Just like folks of South/East foreground language as the primary marker of their identity, so does the North with religion. That does not mean Bihari ceases to be Bihari and Gujju ceases to be a Gujju. Neither identity is superior, but somehow its kosher to take pride in the language/region than religion. To me either of this stance is bullshit, since one had no choice to be born into a region/religion.

            And you are right, why just push comes to shove, ethnic Hindus should turn their back on other Hindus (even though the Hindu right still hasn’t come around). For far too long we have fought other Hindu (Punjabi, Kashmiri, Bengali,Sindhi etc) battles, its time they pull their own weight, and we will see what they bring to the table.

            Its time they carry their own cross.

        2. there is far less public discourse on casteism and regionalism than it was in earlier decades.

          You could say that the caste discourse has now become gentrified.
          People who actually used to be affected by such stuff are now more interested in getting into good colleges or finding jobs while the English-speaking elite that used to pretend caste doesn’t exist now breastbeats about it.

          1. You should see the OBC cutoff list for college admissions. No difference between them and Open category.

            What OBCs want is political representation. For e.g.: A Maurya is pretty happy with BJP since they have Keshav Prasad Maurya as Deputy CM of UP.

            Same with Patels and Mallahs – these were Congress and SP voting castes who now wholeheartedly vote BJP because of political representation given to their caste.

            Yogiji, though Rajput, is seen as a caste agnostic perform due to him being a Yogi.

        3. @Scorpion

          I am not talking about the present at all. Why is everyone bringing the topic back to the present? I am pointing to the past since everyone here likes to point to the past, but they rarely go further than the Muslim rule when talking about subjugation, persecution or labeling it as foreign etc. Most non-UC’s were dominated by UC’s for centuries before Muslim rule as well (and during it, right up until recently), and we also know that UC’s have significantly more ”foreign” ancestry than non-UC’s. Those unfortunate facts always seem to be overlooked or whitewashed. I am not participating in Indian politics today, I don’t know the nuances so I am not making proclamations on it.

          1. Most non-UC’s were dominated by UC’s for centuries before Muslim rule as well (and during it, right up until recently).

            This is not strictly true. The groups termed scheduled caste (SCs) have historically mostly gotten the wrong end of the stick (with significant exceptions) but the majority of Hindus i.e. Bahujans or other backward castes (OBCs) are a modern political creation and have not really been ‘dominated’ by anyone. Or at least the direction of dominance has not always been straightforward. If you do ask a non-woke OBC from a small town if he feels oppressed then he might laugh at you.

            Muslims are resented in different parts of the country variously for:
            1. Eating habits – especially true in vegetarian regions like Rajasthan, Gujarat.

            2. Foreignness – Two aspects here:

            a. Ancestry – people boasting about being from Iran or whatever. This is by far the least important reason whatever Twitter warriors might have you believe. Most people including lay Hindutva folks are not going to think of Mughals as foreign just because Babur was from Kabul. In fact, the person on the street would say that Afghanistan was once part of India so how can he be foreign or something like that. People think India extended to Central Asia

            b. Attachment to Ummah/Pakistan – This is the main one. Islam is not an Indian religion and seems foreign. It has increasingly become so because of pan-Islamism. Plus, there’s a trust deficit here and not without reason, especially post-Partition. Even Ambedkar, the champion of the scheduled castes realised this.

            3. General economic competition – Muslims are akin to another caste. One that’s much more united and larger than any other in India. They are part of the same kind of love-hate relationship that’s part and parcel of inter-caste relations. But inter-religion conflict is for some reason seen as worse so this becomes a bigger issue.

            we also know that UC’s have significantly more ”foreign” ancestry than non-UC’s. Those unfortunate facts always seem to be overlooked or whitewashed.

            As mentioned above, it’s not the foreign ancestry of Mughals that bothers people but the current suspicions of lack of loyalty. The whole ancestry business is limited to a small section of the chattering classes and the absolute Hindutva core.

          2. Most Muslims were subjugated/discriminated by Syed Muslims too. Who do they side with when it comes for Hindu-Muslim issues.

            Same goes for OBCs and SCs too. In fact many jatis try to get their caste registered as OBC for reservations. For e.g.: Meenas of Rajasthan.

          3. “If you do ask a non-woke OBC from a small town if he feels oppressed then he might laugh at you.”

            Outside of N-India folks dont realise how Hindu-ized N-Indian OBCs are. Or for that matter even dalits. That;s y they make their assumpation looking at OBCs of other regions who move on Language/caste/regional vector rather than Hindu vector. And then writers from these regions write for publications, assuming just as Hinduism is skin deep in East/South, so it is in N-India

            So yeah i dont fault non Indian folks who read that and draw conclusions on it.

          4. @Qureishi ji, what are your “sources and references” on the study of “Hindu society”? I will be glad to hear the sources you refer

          5. @Prats,

            Thanks for the detailed answer. You are probably right, I am only going by online discusions as I am far away from the ground realities. Going solely by online discussions, (not just on this site but mostly others in particular), the charge of foreign ancestry & foreign religion seem to be the the most brought up reasons by Hindus to chide Muslims. Perhaps these reasons are not the main ones in reality why Hindus dislike Muslims as you outlined. I do also feel one other reason is always brought up and that is conversion and marriage, especially of Hindu women into Islam, and I think nobody like women of their group marrying into another group, it’s not just limited to India.

    2. The CCP are cry babies for their century of humiliation nonsense. Esp when the CCP conveniently glosses over the ‘great leap forward’ where they killed millions of their own people with dumb communist ideas.

      And also somehow ignoring periods like the absolutely brutal establishment of the ‘Yuan Dynasty’ by the mongols when counting foreign rule.

    3. @Brown

      The question is “who resents it?” There are elements (significant) within the Gangetic Societies who have made their peace with the Muslims and actually resent those who resent the Muslims.

      Please watch this footage from 1992 of commoners in North India reacting to the Babri demolition. The track from 5 mins onwards…..

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N4PlsX5Flk&t=118s

      RJB was a unique mass movement where the masses were inverted – they came from the upper castes while the OBC leadership opposed it. Gangetic OBCs have made a very unique conscious decision to cut their bhumiputra roots and adopt a Persianised orientation.

      Even today the typical North Indian media journalist is a typical deracinated Gangetic OBC who have made it their mission to oppose Hindutva.

      1. LOL, non N-Indians tlking abt the RJM, is a bit like N-Indians holding forth on Sabrimala, or a Kashmiri-Parsi holding forth on Ealeam issues.

        And we all know how the last one ended…..

  29. Haplogroups J2 and L occur at “relatively” unvarying percentages throughout the different groupings of upper and middle castes (slightly more variation in lower castes). This effect is seen in both North India (Sharma 2009) and South India (Watkins 2008). Any ideas on the reasons for this relatively invariant distribution with respect to caste hierarchy? This is in contrast to R1a or H1 which peaks in specific caste groupings in both North/South of India…..

  34. “Supported by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, the Taliban was gradually prevailing in a protracted civil war with the opposing Northern Alliance. But after the 9/11 attacks the Taliban’s heavy weapons were swept away by U.S. bombing. The former de facto government went back to the hills and kept on fighting despite two decades of U.S. and Afghan military pressure.”

    Bingo. Masters of terrorism.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2021/06/30/one-month-700-trucks-afghanistans-us-military-vehicles-fall-into-taliban-hands/?sh=2e92d2736c21

    A nation founded on religious separatism and turning into a terrorist loving theocratic military junta

    1. we all know how americans treat their “allies”, pakistan is a case in point!!!. i was a school kid in 1971 when we were told that the u s 7th fleet is coming to help pakistan. well it is still on the way 🙂

  36. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCJFr6zB2NM
    this is coleman’s talk with charles murray.
    murray states that the i q of blacks in 1920s was low. it ‘ improved’ later and has stagnated in the 1980’s.
    murray feels that the lesser i q in blacks is from birth.
    my question is , if i q could be improved after 1920s due to better opportunities in education, nutrition, etc, the same can be done if the right environment is recreated. so this is not a birth trait.
    as they say in kannada- ‘ huttu guna suttaroo hogadu’, roughly it means that the birth traits cannot be corrected even if the body is cremated, that means it is irreversible.
    i dont see this as murray’s arguments.

    1. Last year Facebook banned holocaust denial on its platform. Why aren’t we agitating for the same to be done wrt hindu genocide denial?

      1. For that u need Asabiya which jews have in abundance.

        As long as less-Hindu people are part of ur tribe, u will be internally weaker.

    3. How does she have so much time to waste on silly things? Between 20+ proposals and 10+ papers, and teaching 3-4 courses a year, my thesis advisor routinely forgot even our research ppts from a week ago.

  44. does the Jesuit order accepts stan samy’s work in jharkhand? on a similar note, arya samaj had disassociated from swamy agnivesh’s later day activity.

  45. Was looking at some reconstructions of ancient greek marbles and how they would have been painted in bright colors historically.

    I am wondering if the outsides of Hindu temples would have been historically painted in bright colors similar to the way South Indian temples are today ?

    1. Granite and paints (whether plant extract or mineral based) don’t mix. The South Indian gopurams (vimana) that you see painted are made of stucco and are actually rebuilt every 100 years (Ship of Theseus). The white gopurams made of granite are dabbed with a grey-white compound made from plant extracts and lime.

      For your viewing pleasure –

      https://ramaarya.blog/2020/05/04/tamil-nadu-temple-gopurams/

        1. The frescoes are inside…and protected from sun and rain. I doubt that the surface on which the frescoes are painted is granite. It has to be plaster or treated.

          There is also aesthetics. Colour induces psychedelic fuel for the mind. Look at this Siva temple in Tiruvannamalai….warm granite grey. Exudes power and majesty. Btw this is the only temple patronised by all the three major dynasties of the Deccan and South – Cholas , Vijayanagara and Marathas – approx 1300 years old. Bigger and better than Rome.

          https://rohini.us/arunachala-temple-tiruvannamalai-history-timings-how-to-reach/

  46. Interesting to see both Railway and information technology ministries going to a newbie Ashwini Vaibhaw. He’s a former IAS officer who left to pursue a career in infrastructure finance.

    I hope he’s better than Ravi Shankar Prasad. Not a very high standard to beat anyway.

      1. Under the visionary and able guidance of PM Narendra Modi ji, I will tender my resignation.

        1. LOL, seems like Harshvardhan has still kept up this charade even after getting dropped. Perhaps he expects some other ministership or next CM of Delhi post.

          Javedkar and RSP seem like Advani guys, they might as well retire now.

    3. The Power and New and Renewable Energy Minister RK Singh seems to have an interesting backstory.

      He had arrested Advani during the Rath Yatra at Lalu Yadav’s instruction. Later, Advani hand picked the guy to be joint secretary in the Home Ministry in NDA-1.

      1. all so called bhahmin faces from vajapayee era who had some weight are gone, jaietly, sushma, anant kumar, jhavdekar, ravishankar prasad, phokrial(?), pramod mahajan, sumitra mahajan, shatru,+ u p faces.
        it will be very difficult for leaders like siddaramiah and others to label bjp as brahmin+bania party.

        1. There is a new trick in town. That the OBC and dalits of BJP are not really ‘marginalized’ anyway. Especially OBCs, after they have been started voting for BJP, are just Upper caste by another name.

  50. Harshvardhan , Pokhriyal, Prasad, Javadekar… gone. Very happy.

    Nonsense ‘Hindu’ science and medicine killed hundreds of thousands. Makes me happy to see the first two booted out.

    1. Never understood what Javedkar and RPS brought to the table. Neither technocrat (to waste a Rajya sabha seat on ) nor any mass following. Its better they have brought use less mass leaders to replace use less rajya sabha leaders. At least the former have some value electorally.

      1. Back in the day lawyers were what technocrats are now. RSP is a hold over from that era.
        Even UPA had Sibal and Abhishek Manu Singhvi types.

        1. I guess RSP did some stuff on the RJB supreme court cases. UPA to me seems different considering everyone who was from the Congress at the centre was a Rajya Sabha-esqu leader. The BJP anyhow has useless Rajya Sabha leaders, so might as well use useless Lok sabha leaders as ministers.

          Also skeptical of how much work technocrats actually acheive. Pakistan has had its own version of technocrats+ex-military manning several departments. Doesnt seem its some receipt for success.

          1. “Also skeptical of how much work technocrats actually acheive”

            +1

            Still waiting for Air India’s sale.

          2. I guess my grandchildren will fly in govt owned Air India.

            And here the Modi govt is thinking of privatizating banks, LOL.

  52. Interesting Twitter fight going on between Pakistanis and Indians.

    Pakistanis are claiming that Dilip Kumar “was born in Pakistan and died in India”. Indians correctly correcting them by saying he was “born in undivided India and died in India” 🙂 every Pakistani a gangsta until they meet technical Indians.

    1. I think even the orginal one “was born in Pakistan and died in India” is ok. It says something about India and Pakistan, only if Indians can spin it better.

    2. i used to think india-pakistan rivalry was silly…

      until a few years ago when greeks rioted and damaged a lot of (greek) public property over the issue of a neighboring country macedonia choosing a new name for itself.

      the world is weirder than we think.

  53. https://religionnews.com/2021/07/07/hindutvas-threat-to-academic-freedom/

    Hindutva’s threat to academic freedom

    “Our first act as SASAC is to publish the Hindutva Harassment Field Manual, which contains resources for targets, allies, students and employers who find themselves subjected or witnesses to a Hindutva-led assault.

    The manual defines Hindutva and explains how its political ideology is distinct from the broad-based faith tradition of Hinduism. It covers common features of Hindutva attacks, including how such assaults are often coordinated and how Hindutva hate frequently intersects with other prejudices, including misogyny and casteism.

    Lastly, it addresses the misappropriation of the language of diversity, decolonization and education by the Hindu right with the aim of promoting homogeny through misinformation.

    Some of our members have written before about how the Hindu right uses ideas designed to deconstruct bias to achieve the opposite. But the Hindu right has also made bad-faith claims of bias as a smokescreen to protect its members’ own extreme bias. It is a delicate matter to explain this method of shielding odious politics from criticism, but we refer you to the field manual as a start”

  57. Mission Mangal is an awful movie. What is it with Bollywood and stereotyping characters? every movie seems to be made for 10 year olds.

      1. Screw his overacting, one notable achievement of the country in a decade and all he could come up with is retarded stuff like using recycled plastic on spacecrafts! Puris! evil NRI! stupid rocket mechanisms that make zero sense, pointless songs and dance, using incorrect jargon… My head hurts man, this movie is proof enough that Indians have low IQ and zero creativity. No need for PISA. How scientifically illiterate are the screenwriters. Zero effort in writing, zero effort in design, showing some random and incorrect Apollo rocket details on GSLV. Pathetic and ugly. This is trash not even worthy of direct to DVD release.

        1. i know. the movie was a waste. but the problem was not the acting of the cast. the problem was the script itself.

          bollywood needs to put in more effort to find better scripts for its movies. in order to make a movie entertaining , the story needs to have some elements of drama, adventure and suspense in it. movies based on themes of science and tech do not generally lend themselves easily to introduce such elements. therefore these movies generally turn out bland.

          unless of course the story itself is based on some real life dramatic event, like apollo-13, which makes is a natural winner.

    1. Difference is that nation is aware and action will be taken. For Bengal, it was all just denial.

    1. Oh amaijing saar, C4I-BLAHBLAH ??? Indians are still stuck in C2I-LOL-WA. Not only defense even Pakistan’s civilian industrial complex is churning out (hi-tech autonomous self-learning) babies after babies Saar… what 2 do Saar? these robots can be made to solve their water problem by digging wells and can even be sold abroad Saar, high demand in explosives delivery via vest Saar. Their men and women are working overtime Saar.

      This is what PM was up-to Saar, super-duper taichnolagy Saar, no hope left Saar:

      https://www.geo.tv/latest/359012-pm-imran-khan-to-launch-pakistans-first-ever-locally-produced-e-bike-today

      Naam bade aur darshan choote.

      With their propensity for BS why don’t Pakistanis already do MBAs in hordes?

    2. Lol. Every time I see a Pakistani ‘geostrategist’ say 5th generation warfare, I am reminded of how Amitabh Kant uses the term blockchain.

    2. Hinduism/Buddhism or other -isms are considered a ‘downgrade’ from Islam. Even hoards of Hindu nats online, be that reddit or facebook have not been able to convince hoards of ex-tomatos to join the ranks of Hindus.

      I remember having this discussion with a bunch of old friends long time back as to why Muslims don’t convert to Christianity or Hinduism if they stop believing in Islam.. and one girl replied how (in her own words) ‘that’s like going from a Mercedes to a Suzuki’. Islam is considered above these religions in brand value to its former adherents.

      Most ex-Muslims or agnostics I knew who turned towards atheism/agnosticism in their teens or twenties are now firmly back in the circle of Islam in their thirties. While the women return to just being mostly cultural Muslims, the men are now all practicing either fully or partially. Maybe because atheism is makes you a beta male and for a Muslim man to convert to atheism, it’s like scoring an own goal.

      1. “Atheism turns you into a beta male”

        Foolish generalization as usual. People return to religion for community aspect. But maybe some other benefits for these men. Islam often puts women in a subservient position, among strict practioners. That is definitely quite appealing to some of the more insecure men.

        Halal Haleem Owaisi

        1. Heh!

          One man does love jihad, the other is angry about love jihad. Which one is insecure? You know the answer. 😛

          1. Well because one man has Judiciary to get his/her son/daughter under the Indian law to go to while the other has a “Muslim Personal Law Board” where the petitions are filed for divorce and the procedure followed is codified according to the Fatwa e alamgiri.

  67. The spelling bee this year was not won by an Indian American. Truly shocking news.

  68. In other news about how Pakistan is indispensable to USA and Afghanistan – even 6 months after Joseph Robinette Biden Jr’s ascension into the US presidency, he has still not called the Pakistani Premier – Imran Ahmed Khan Niazi. Biden called Modi on Feb 9, twenty days after the inauguration.

    Maybe I am just a novice at geopolitics, that is just ominous. The Pakistani strategic establishment sucks donkey balls. Is this a sign of just normal Punjabi diplomatic incompetence or something more sinister?

  71. Still proud of the Indian Americans making a good show as usual. But especially happy to see an African American young lady win Scripps National Spelling Bee. Incredible work. Many black scholars have talked about an anti-intellectual atmosphere and how it relates to the phenomena of being called out for “acting white” in the African American community. I hope achievements like this help put, at least a small dent, in such harmful attitudes.

    Great work Miss Avant-garde!

    1. If winning the spelling bee weren’t enough, she’s an absolute phenom baller. Check out the youtube footage. I can’t think of another human being who’s top .01% cognitively and athletically like this, its insane

      1. Yes. Elite tier genetics and hardwork. The unicycle dribbling was pretty awesome.

  73. now kerala has a dowry problem. the govt wants to call it by some other name to make it official. kerala also has a reputed drinks problem. for some of us who have seen malayali men as colleagues know their attitude towards women.
    all these are in addition to the love jihad.

    1. If you notice, Nairs and Namboodiris are moving out of Kerala since 1959, Maharashtra, specially Bombay Pune Nagpur has huge community of Nairs and Namboodiris. Does the generalization hold for Nasranis and other Hindu Malayalee groups?

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