28 thoughts on “Genetics of Kashmiris”

  1. They are S Asian. Inbreeding and climate has made them lighter than NW neighbors.

    1. Irrational. Their facial features aint south asian enough and neither do all south asians look the same

    2. In addition to climate/altitude, it’s also possible their phenotype has also been influenced by previous admixture with their Northern Dard neighbors such as Kohistani, Shina, Kho, etc. but it left little genetic impact or not much considering these far Northern Pakistani populations are also on the South Asian cline (cluster with Kalash/Northern Pashtuns).

  2. Starting from the wrong track, the paper research got logical conclusion – it was a wrong track. One of wrong premises was that Alexander the Great was a Greek. Their finding is that Kashmiris are ‘Indo-European ethno-linguistic populations in northern India and Pakistan’. Maybe, in the next paper they will explain the meaning of every word – Indo, European, ethno, linguistic.

    It is interesting that in the list of the worldwide nations, used as references, in the North Africa list, authors listed separately Djerbian and Tunisian. Djerbian (now the prime tourist destination) is the Arabic name for Serbian, the island where ancient Serbian tribe Vandals who practiced Aryanism religion lived for few hundred years after moving from Europe via Gibraltar. They had the highest culture at that time but having destroyed the city of Rome in one expedition, they left the legacy to the world – vandalism (like their cousins Tribals – tribalism). Until 1973, they were part of the official title of Swedish kings –

    By the Grace of God, King of the Swedes, the Goths/Geats, and the Wends (In Latin: Dei Gratia Suecorum, Gothorum et Vandalorum Rex)

    1. Yep, you are pretty slow but the whole life is in front of you. Eventually, you will get there. Lesander Karanovic (aka AtG) was the greatest Greeks’ enemy and Athen’s major Demosten spoke every day against him and his father Phillip (‘phillipique’). Lesander’s Serbian army defeted Persian army in which one half of soldiers were Greeks what opened him a path to India. He created a global borderless empire (pan-tzarism) which was later used by many, including Greeks, for seemless traveling and business. He was inspired by two of his predecesors (also Serbs) who led two Aryan expeditions to SA 1700 and 1100 years before him. Enjoy your jorney, hopefuly you will catch up somehow.

    2. Top Ghan, can you tell us, optionally, what is your background unless you are ashamed of?

      1. Well, with such backing by BP ‘heavy ghans’ – RST+4A (A is for anonymous, T is for taqiyyaman), let see if Top Ghan will come out with pride (and maybe waving the rainbow flag?). I would be interested if this is a lone rider, an isolated pocket or a wider movement of serbofobia.

  3. Even though I’m half white and lighter than basically anyone in India, I’ve always had a complex about light skinned North Indians. (My ancestry is half Bengali). I’m not exactly sure about my father’s caste, I think it’s Brahmin (or some cut-rate vaidya caste), but his side are pretty dark and sure don’t look like my image of Brahmins.

  4. If love is wrong, I don’t want to be right!

    She’s just some random North Indian girl though lol. Not Kashmir I guess. Not enough Alexander in her.

    You never saw that 1970s Sean Connery movie?? The man who would be king

    1. Well spoken. Don’t be shy and just ask my Serb-tagore admin fellow to connect you. Good luck.

      1. *tumbs up* – Rudyard Kipling – Polish. You will be taking BuBu soon off the BP virgin list (unless he is waiting for Richard Branson to open a branch in India).

  5. So what is the conclusion? Are they the descendants of original aryan invaders? Or what?

  6. “they aren’t anything you wouldn’t expect”

    You say that but i did not expect the genetic feature set of Kashmiri Pandits to be as similar to K Muslims as I saw in the paper. I would have expected K Ps to be more like mainland Indian Brahmin groups, i.e. more of a cosmopolitan Indic heritage characterised by more variation than is expected of such a small population. Mainly because we know we descend in part from Brahmins who came over and settled from all parts of N India including as far as Bengal, and mixed with local Brahmin families.

    From the evidence it seems that non-Kashmiri Brahmin input was always quite low.

    1. Aren’t many K. Muslims former K. Pandits converted? That could muddy the genetic waters.

      1. There are some genuine Brahmin converts for sure (usu retain surnames like Pandit, Reshi, Kaul etc) but not that many. And Brahmins never really constituted more than 10-15% of any Hindu state. Nepal is a good control – a Himalayan state with strong cultural overlap with Kashmir (Nepal is what Kashmir would’ve looked like without Islam) – where the Brahmin (Bahun) population is around 12%.

        I would wager K Pandits typically fled or were killed more than they converted. In any case, converted K Ps certainly would be far less likely to move the sample averages in the data given their low percentage incidence in the population to begin with.

      1. I know it is an admixture plot, so various components just represent hypothetical population. That being said, some inferences can still be drawn about these hypothetical populations, isn’t it. Will I be wrong if I say..
        Green – nordic type
        Brown – semitic type
        Light purple – east asian (mongoloid)
        Dark purple – no idea.
        Red – India hunter gatherer (AASI)

  7. One day a visionary BP admin will open a thread ‘Toponyms of Kashmir’ (or wherever). I said before that all ancient toponyms which contain MIR are of Serbian origin (e.g. Palmyra, etc). It applies to Kashmir as well. The archaic meaning of MIR (still used in Russia) is – world, the modern meaning is – peace.

    It is also part of many personal names: Branimir (= defends peace), Lyubomir (loves peace), Stanimir (maintains peace), Dragomir (cherishing peace), Gradimir (building peace), Radomir (working on peace), Budimir (waking peace), Miroslav (celebrates peace), Mirko (equivalent to Sereno), Mira (female name), etc. I have several hundreds of toponyms from Kashmir, Tibet and Nepal (Kashmir and Tibet are momentarily in the same group which I need to separate). If someone is interested to research I can provide him/her to play with them.

    Let me mention just one Serbian toponym – Gorkha (=bitter, but can be also – fierce, blistering). This is now the town and district in Nepal. During the Anglo-Nepalese War (1814–16) between the Gorkha Kingdom (present-day Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal) and the East India Company, the Gorkhali soldiers made an impression on the British, who called them Gurkhas.

    1. PS: For researchers – there is another possible meaning of Gorkha. There is in Serbia – Montenegro, now independent state, which means Black Mountain (i.e. Crna Gora). There are so many toponyms in SA which contain a word – Gora. Gorkha could mean also ‘high mountains’ especially in a Nepal context. Having said this: John Denver – Mountain high –


  8. This search for exotic bloodlines among Kashmiris traces its origins to the speculations of colonial writers which entered Kashmiri consciousness in the first half of the twentieth century. Greek kingdoms existed all over North West India after the Mauryas, but there is little evidence of Greek dna in modern Punjab, Afghanistan or among the Kalash. In the seventies, an ‘original Aryan’ theory was similarly being postulated by a French writer for Kalash type people living in Dah and Hanu along the Indus river north of Kargil in Ladakh.The Jewish story has no basis, except for the imagined connections to Jesus through the Rozbal shrine in Srinagar and sites such as Ishmuqam in the Lidder valley. A semitic origin has even been postulated for Pashtuns and seems to have entered their mythology despite lack of any dna evidence.
    The main population group of the Kashmir valley arrived from adjoining Punjab and mainly through the 12000 foot high Pir ki Gali pass rather than through the easier Jehlum valley route. Kashmir’s Muslims are not all of Pandit descent. The ancient tribes of Kashmiris such as the Damaras, Tantreys, Parrays, Khandays etc were not Brahmins. There was much coming and going from and to Punjab till the start of Afghan rule in 1753, which never resumed except for a brief interjection of Sikhs during Sikh rule. Under the Dogra ruler Ranbir Singh non-Kashmiri inflow fell drastically after 1860.
    There is little Central Asian or Afghan dna in Kashmir. 700 Sayyids are supposed to have arrived in Kashmir with the great proselytiser Shah Hamdan in the 14th century, though sources say there mostly craftsmen. The Sayyids form a very small proportion of the Kashmiri population and distinguish themselves from the general population. They are known as Mallas by Kashmiris and are generally disliked.
    The autochthonous people of Kashmir are supposed to have been naga tribes and their stories are shrouded in legend. The earliest archaeological evidence is of pit dwellers. The earliest known human remains are those of Pahalgam man dating to about 18000 years ago which shows similarity to adjoining Punjab remains.

    1. OIT? That’s perfectly ok. Greeks are explained in the middle of the Open Thread.
      Original Aryans? This is a different story. Muuuuch longer.

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