196 thoughts on “Open Thread – 06/11/2021 – Brown Pundits”

  1. Clear sign that Indian RW has still not gotten over losing in Bengal. Trying to impose direct dictatorship by Modi in any state that does not kneel and bow to him.

    Ironic to see concerns about a genocide in Bengal from the contingent that spews hatred against Bengalis and Bengal that rivals the rhetoric of the West Pakistani Army.

    1. Many people are being raped, murdered, and evicted from their homes for political beliefs. The state has demonstrated no capacity to administer justice. What we are seeing in Bengal is post election crimes against humanity.

      There are states that are anti BJP that this stuff is not seen. Kerela and Tamil Nadu are two examples. No one would advocate President’s rule there. President’s rule for Bengal is to protect life, liberty, and property in the state, temporize all of the targeted violence.

      TMC is behaving in a manner that is inching closer to genocide. Look at all of the reports of gang rapes, murder, and illegal property seizure of BJP supporters, who happen to be disproportionately lower caste origin Hindus in the state.

      Also, look at the high degrees of illegal immigration from groups like Rohingyas. The state has no ability to enforce law and order.

      That is why I support President’s Rule. If anything, TMC is closer to West Pakistan’s behavior, one embodied by rape and murder over ideology and perceived racial differences. TMC has espoused Bengali ethnonationalism. TMC is the one with blood on its hands consistently. It is a leftist organization of terror.

      1. “There are states that are anti BJP that this stuff is not seen. Kerela and Tamil Nadu are two examples. No one would advocate President’s rule there.”

        Many many Indian RW advocate for just that. Even in the last Open Thread, @IsThisReal was considering Kashmir-ing Kerala soon.


        Check out that thread. Case of Indian RW anti-democrat wanting to Kashmir Kerala. Many of the replies are chomping at the bit for TN to be Kashmir’d as well.

        Any state that doesn’t completely bow down to Modi and be cucked by him is at risk.

      2. Aren’t there other ways to address those issues than by removing the democratically elected government and replacing it with direct dictatorship from Delhi?

        If border security is an issue, the central government can look at infrastructure and personnel at the border.

        Political violence is a concern though that might not be easily resolved by other means, so you have some point there. But I still think mostly exaggerated by angry sore loser RWs. Law and order is not an issue exclusive to Bengal.

  2. The difference between East Asians and South Asians noted in the article may also answer some of @principia’s remarks on the difference in economic models between East Asia and South Asia. Indians are simply not made out to work for long hours in “silent” jobs like textile production or assembly line manufacturing. It impedes their natural style. Perhaps, one or two meetings a day, perks them up. Maybe thats why they do better in service industries.

    If that’s the case, is Bangladesh the mixing zone between South and East Asian cultural currents?

    1. I also thought that the preference of Indians to talk more is why clubhouse/ YouTube/ tiktok are all very popular compared to blogs/Twitter.

      It also bites us with not having a written record and nobody believing what we say. 🙂

      1. Its a tradition!! @Violet.

        Gautama Buddha to Ananda, his disciple – “As long as the Vajjians assemble frequently and have many meetings…..[snipped]….King Ajatashatru will never defeat the Vajjians in battle”

        He stated six other principles in addition to the debating principle – for the Republic of Vaishali.

    2. Indians are simply not made out to work for long hours in “silent” jobs like textile production or assembly line manufacturing. It impedes their natural style

      Crass racial stereotyping is never helpful, even if it is done by someone against his own group. Arvind Subramanian has a very good paper showing that, contra stereotypes, Indian manufacturing prowess was in fact very “East Asian-like” in its growth and intensity. The reason why India didn’t succeed as China or Vietnam is, once again, due to the skill bias inherent in the Indian economic system which favours highly skilled workers. For manufacturing, that meant highly capital-intensive firms with few workers.

      That skill bias is universal, evident in service sector jobs, too. So rather than making a lazy stereotype of Indians as preferring service work, we should look at skill biased econ models *across* sectors which is India’s biggest pathology (hence leading to underemployment). I’ve written before that India’s “original sin” was a misdirected focus at high human capital investment at the expense of primary education etc.

      1. Crass racial stereotyping is never helpful…

        Says the person who insists that Indians should stick to banian & chaddi mass manufacturing and stop pursuing high value sectors like precision components and pharma.

        @principia is the chief speaker at Irony’s funeral 🙂

        1. @Ugra

          Sequencing matters. High-value add manufacturing is supposed to come after you master the basics. It’s not either/or. India tried to “leapfrog” the basics and it ended up 6X as poor as China. No wonder, if the babus had as poor understanding as you 🙂

          1. What basics?? You are like some kind of theoretician who thinks auto component makers first need to prove themselves with stitching bedspread sheets!

            Everything you utter has a very simplistic cause and effect. You actually think that China got rich because of some algorithm they followed in industrialization. The West needed a counterbalance to the Soviets during the Cold War – so they attempted to create a SoKo style state in China by creating conditions for outsourcing.

            Chinese began liberalisation in 1980 – almost 10 years ahead of India. So that gap has an effect.

            Third reason – China is an authoritarian regime. The costs of Democracy slow down India.

            Rich people in India have a better life than rich Chinese. Whereas the poor Chinese are better off than poor Indians.

            Increase in wealth is associated with an increase in political experimentation and flowering of ideas. For these reasons, it is more rewarding to be rich in India.

  3. with akali dal and bsp forming an alliance, they will also give bjp a few seats indirectly, which might help akali dal to get some hindu votes. after all bjp has 2 seats in the current assembly. on the other hand bjp can go alone and contest in areas it has some hopes. it has said that a bjp govt if at all will be headed by a dalit. any opinions?

    1. It’s somewhat amusing that Lefties cheer using film to push their views, but also bemoan the 1980s Doordarshan Ramayan show for allegedly spawning the RJB movement.

      (Which is incorrect, but I always saw that argument as Lefties inadvertently dissing themselves. What does it say about your ideological project if it can be beaten by a mediocre TV show with the worst production values I have ever seen?)

    2. @warlock

      It’s less about the brown sahib that they can find, and more about why there is a relentless series of attacks on the BJP in the US media without exception. Modi is foolish to embrace those who wish to destroy his party or at least throw it out of power.

      1. Here is the problem

        China is stronger than India. India needs help against China or China will continue to bully India into economic submission (looking at rising trade volume, even with tensions flairing) and seizure of lands. The US and EU are necessary allies in this situation. The prior, in particular, has mutual interest in seeing a less expansionist China to protect its undisputed top dog global position.

        Modi realizes this and tries to woo the US. The Republicans don’t like Modi because he can be mislabeled as anti Christian for being against exploitative behavior by large missionary organizations. But Democrats really hate Modi. He is the definition of Enemy #1 for the global islamo-leftist networking, the fastest rising force in the “progressive” section of the party.

        Modi needs the US. And smart Americans who understand the geopolitics of it all realize that a strong India would be beneficial for the US. But the politics just don’t look favorable, no matter what direction one turns. With Biden, it is still ok. He is reasonable in his view of international relations. Far from ideal, but much better than the likes of “The Squad.”

  4. https://www.opindia.com/2021/06/wikipedia-dismisses-love-jihad-as-a-conspiracy-theory-by-hindus/

    Like I have said. Radical Haleem Rape Jihad is real. There is no such thing as “love” jihad because love is never involved in those situations. From targeting of minors to blackmail with secret sexual recordings to outright rape, there is a disproportionate and semi coordinated effort in segments of the radicalized youth haleem population to use sexual violence as a weapon, justifying it via an idealogy that can be interpreted as outrightly stating that its non- believers are lesser beings. In some cases, haleem places of worship even give cash prizes for conversions. Of course not all people of a community are like this. I never said they are. But a non insignificant portion of them are.

  5. The paper linked in the header is terrible news for India. Basically, an assessment by peers in the workplace found Indians significantly less competent, less sociable but better at being promotion obsessed assholes than East Asians. Remember, only the most competent and motivated Indians workers are allowed entry by the US, so this survey speaks very poorly of India’s technical skills and social environment.

    1. You act like persistence is a bad trait. Hunger for success is good, as long as it is done ethically.

      “Analyses revealed that East Asians faced less prejudice than South Asians and were equally motivated by work and leadership as South Asians. However, East Asians were lower in assertiveness, which consistently mediated the leadership attainment gap between East Asians and South Asians. ”

      Compared to E Asians, S Asians receive more prejudice and despite that still do better on this paper’s leadership metric.

      1. I have answered the second part of your comment in my earlier response to Prats. Hunger is not a bad thing, the question is what is driving the hunger. It is possible that the desire to be top dog is fueled by memories of a hierarchical survival society.

    2. Basically, an assessment by peers in the workplace found Indians significantly less competent, less sociable but better at being promotion obsessed assholes than East Asians.

      What does it say about America if they are prejudiced towards subcontinentals and find us less competent and sociable but would still select us for leadership positions?

      (I am taking this whole study with a pinch of salt tbh)

      1. Prats, I would take assessments of competence much more seriously than the other aspects of the study. For any professional recognizing competence is the aspect of personnel analysis they would be most adept at. It is much easier for an engineer to recognize another good engineer than to figure out who is affable and who is suited to become a leader.

        Also, IIRC the assessments of poor competence on part of Indians was the view of both natives and East Asian workers. So its not just the Americans who rated East Asians as higher skilled than Indians.

        1. Assessment of leadership and competence are subjective while performance of companies under leaders are very much metric driven. The stock market is not forgiving. On this front, the performance of companies under Indian leadership are superlative. Google, Microsoft….all of them. Not my opinion, but the markets.

          Vikram, you are just peddling your perception. Too many memories of the Gangetic underperforming/backward ethic? Is it just my impression that a lot of Gangetic belt folks on BP have a cringe complex around success and dynamism? Too much wallowing in self doubt, I say.

          1. Hows does the stock performance of a couple of tech companies (with a dominant legacy market share) reveal more than a substantive survey published in PNAS ? Rajat Gupta, another Indian-origin CEO got convicted for fraud. Anecdotes dont mean much.

          2. @Vikram

            I hope you studied the PNAS paper thoroughly. The number of participants in the “competence assessment” study was 1700 people. I can tell you that focus groups for new cola flavors get closer to 5000 participants. Please understand statistical power.

            The ratio of South Asian CEOs to East Asian CEOs has much higher power – because it was taken from a dataset of 28 quarters across 500 US companies – essentially 14000 data points.

            Wtf has Rajat Gupta to do with this discussion? In fact if you look at the ratio of shady CEOś to good CEOs – then South Asians still rank better than other groups.

            I still think that you are just projecting your own inadequacies. Perhaps you are working in a dodgy environment and cannot believe that your co-ethnics could ascend the ladder legitimately 🙂

        2. Why care about validation?

          Gora people are losing to us in leadership positions. It is obvious they might get jealous, no one is jealous of code-monkey Indians or Chinese.

          Also, seriously why be so introspective?

          Income gap between Indians and Chinese is perhaps the only indicator where Indians can sit back and see Chinese coming up with excuses. It is substantial, it is right in-front of us and it will not go away. Why not bask in our glory? Laugh at them, poke them smugly every once in a while, throw a few hindi/tamil/telugu idioms at the Lee Kuan Yews in the US on how we Indians and our culture are just inherently superior?

          And using ‘South Asia’ as a group is incorrect when it comes to incomes, Pakistanis are nowhere near us. We should make sure that they can’t opt in and out conveniently.

          1. Bhimrao, the assessment of less competence are coming from all peers, not just whites.

          2. Making money is difficult, people don’t just give it away.

            Pick one of the following:
            1) Indians are dumber, i.e. our pipi-length talk on IQ
            2) Indians are not as well educated
            3) Indians get promoted so fast that they rub shoulders with people above their aptitude/skill/experience.
            (4) People are just jealous
            (5) The could-have-been-entrepreneurs of India are now corporate-leaders in the US. Chinese and Americans entrepreneurs are doing entrepreneurship.

            (1) REALLY don’t want to talk about this, but if true we are kind of fucked. Eating better food would help.
            (2) Maybe. But I don’t find it plausible at least at IIT/NIT/VIT/Manipal/BITS tier.
            (3) Seems likely.
            (4) Seems very likely. Especially given people don’t expect to be left behind by Indians.
            (5) Living in India kind of sucks and Indians crave company of gora people.

            Downplay, lay-low and enjoy the money. Why think about what they think? Everyone thinks CIA/Pentagon people are dumb and Chinese are copy-cats. They keep going about their business anyways.

          3. @Vikram thinks jealousy play no part; and lol competence assessment is correct. Everyone who gets passed over thinks he is the best, a god given talent. The fact is: any guy who gets promoted is always treated as incompetent by people who got shafted. If the study was so correct, why are Indians getting promoted in technology companies? Is senior management a fool that they cannot see a tasteless, incompetent group of people, yet they meet all metrics for promotion? Indians bring results; are better managers; sincere and dedicated; and that is why they get promoted.

            @Vikram thinks people who come to the US are the best of the bunch. What a joke! And such hubris about himself. Give the opportunity to come to the US to any random NIIT/local college passout who is motivated but has financial constraints; and we will see.

            PS: I have seen east asians. They themselves are no less suckups! Heck, their women are always eager to marry white males. But then also, they get lower results than a group that faces more prejudice. What does it tell about them? Indians have very less opportunities; and they use them to the fullest. Most of the east asians I have met are mediocre but had a good base due to their better education.

        3. This is very funny talking about competence vs. Leadership. Technical competence is different from leadership competence.

          Leadership is about getting other people to do the work. Good leaders always keep greater technical competence people on their team. A people and business leader with the most technical competence of their team is detrimental to the team.

          This isn’t a new finding. Let’s start with Gates, Jobs or Musk. They weren’t the most technical of their teams, but good enough to detect bullshit.

          Indians shouldn’t be dissed for having greater competence for knowing emotional motivations of other people and an iota of greater self-awareness to figure out leadership behaviours that produce results.

          No matter how smart and technical a group is, most people are emotionally motivated rather than being rational decision-makers. A good leader knows this. All this concern about Indians being rated at lower technical competence is useless – like rating how well a fish rides the bicycle.

      2. @Prats
        If our question is , does American society respect ambition over competence? This seems increasingly the case in our power centers, unfortunately. I think this tends to happen when there’s less social solidarity, you play the short game, and ambition delivers. Competence is the opposite, and in fact can make you look bad in the short run if you stand in too high a relief from it. Would also say that even if Indians come off as smarmy to natives, its better than mute and incrutable. The US media is full of colorful ethnic semitic/mediterranean/latin personalities that the average lutheran in wisconson really has little in common with, but finds charming nonetheless.

  6. Found this interesting website that helps me make color-coded maps here:


    Here is a map of the 2018 HDI data for the Indian subcontinent, generally showing HDI data for subdivisions (i.e. provinces, states, territories) of each country (with some caveats).


    Here is a map of the 1990 HDI data for subdivisions of India and Pakistan.


    Lastly, here is a map showing the changes in HDI scores for subdivisions of India and Pakistan from 1990 to 2018. This shows which subdivisions are getting better and at what pace.


    I put it in a blog post but the post doesn’t really add much info than what’s here.


    1. All the fours new states (JH,UK,CG,TG) seem to have not shown much improvement. Is there a reason or is this an artefact of how the data was collected?

      1. @Prats

        “All the fours new states (JH,UK,CG,TG) seem to have not shown much improvement. Is there a reason or is this an artefact of how the data was collected?”

        This seemed unusual to me, as well. Although worth noting that all of them started with a much higher baseline, as well. I think it was collected by looking at district-wise HDI. But this is a good question to look into.

  7. Vikram is correct. A lot of cope about the skills Indians lack as well as their opportunistic, ruthless, self-serving nature. It’s mostly guju brahmins who are the problem. I’m not surprised they suck at work, but are obsessed with securing their own position. To make matters worse, they are even comparable to “good” elites like the nobles and aristocracy in European history. They have zero interest in art and culture, expanding the knowledge and wisdom of humanity, or just giving something back to the community they came from, and they are especially averse to uplifting those less fortunate as in their eyes that would just increase competition for them.

    For guju upper castes, it’s just mindless, utilitarian cost-benefit analysis to perpetually increase wealth. And to what end? They’re both to devoid of culture/spirit and too conservative to take part in leisure and luxuries, in arts and cultures, or scientific inquiries that broaden our understanding of the universe (it’s just doctor, engineer, lawyer, FIRE sector jobs, and now politics- mostly forms of social parasitism). It’s just accumulate as much wealth as possible by any means necessary to pass on genes.

    The irony of their “conservatism” is that they aren’t even conserving anything. Yeah, they support BJP from their cushy houses in the imperial core, but then they turn around support whatever benefits America and the imperial core, flip-flopping between the woke side and the white side when it suits them. Why? Because it benefits them first and foremost. They got their nice job and house and clean, crisp neighborhood in the West, so fuck everyone else, especially those in poor, illiterate, sweltering, dirty India. There’s probably also something to the fact that a lot of them are very fair-skinned and identify by superficial association with white people (“they’re just like us!”). I mean, these are the people that let the brits gain a stronghold in the first place…

    Unfortunately, they run the show, so anyone wanting to acquire wealth and prosperity has to adopt the guju brahmin mindset. This of course is not possible by definition, so as long as they are the most powerful, India will never industrialize and become self-dependent. Guju brahmins are the most useless, worthless group of Indians and the faster we cut ties with them, the better for India and for Hindus.

  8. Western Companies “Shocked” After China Rushes Through Anti-Sanctions Law

    There should be little doubt that the timing is intentional: China on Thursday passed its sweeping new law to ‘safeguard’ Chinese businesses and entities from Western and especially US sanctions, just hours ahead of President Joe Biden sitting down with G-7 leaders in Cornwall to argue for a common stance on curtailing China’s influence. AFP observes: “China’s quick rollout of a law against foreign sanctions has left European and American companies shocked and facing ‘irreconcilable’ compliance issues, two top business groups said Friday, despite Beijing saying the move would unlikely impact investment.”

    The Anti-Foreign Sanctions Law, as we described earlier, is designed shield Chinese entities and institutions from “the unilateral and discriminatory measures imposed by foreign countries” and ultimately the “long arm jurisdiction” of the United States.

    It effectively enables the Chinese government to sanction all who comply with US/EU sanctions by drawing a bright red line, forcing entities to choose whether to comply to Washington’s side or Beijing’s side. Upon its introduction early this week in the National People’s Congress there were few details given, other than vowing that “if Chinese entities are hit with unjustified sanctions, the proposed law is supposed to crystallize actionable countermeasures against the foreign governments and institutions…expecting the legal effort to make up for losses that Chinese entities would suffer.”


  9. “Indians are dumber” and “Indians are not as well educated”

    We need to discuss these points more substantially, especially the point about education.

    First nutrition, our diets seem inadequate, the average East Asian looks leaner and fitter.

    Regarding education, I think the difference comes from school education rather than college. A previous paper linked by Narasingh Deva indicated that while Indian colleges offer more to the average student than Chinese ones, the Chinese students came better prepared from high school. In the general population, where career success should align with competence, high school grades are strongly correlated with career success, while college GPA is actually negatively correlated.

    1. A previous paper linked by Narasingh Deva indicated that while Indian colleges offer more to the average student than Chinese ones, the Chinese students came better prepared from high school.

      @Vikram @Narasingh

      Could either of you point me to this paper?
      This has been my pet theory as well based on what I saw in college. Career performance (irrespective of general/SC/OBC) seems highly correlated to quality of schooling.

      Would be good to have some ammunition to back my claims in arguments.

        1. That’s because much of Indian education is still based on old British grammar school model of rote learning. The best schools have of course moved away from this. And the brightest students seek out learning the underlying mechanisms of things. But for the average student, what is spoon fed to them, isn’t all that great.

          Regardless, India needs to focus on getting to 90% literacy before comparing with much richer nations on average scores of incoming CS grads. Frankly, that is a secondary priority.

          1. There is chronic underinvestment in primary education. Frankly, there isnt much money to go around, so I dont entirely blame the government. We should have capitalized better on the Gulf oil boom from its very start in the late 1970s. Delhi has shown a new way forward, hope other states catch on.

    2. Indians all need to learn to count calories and protein. Most intuitively eat trash diets.

      IQ wise, I think Indians are fine. Even in the UK, where mostly it is peasant caste Indians who came via chain migration, IQ surveys show an average of 97, not that different from the white average. Even Indians who come via chain migration and are of OBC origin do great in the US. So all the racists out there who act like Indians are inherently genetically intellectually inferior can just be quiet. All of the weird online west eurasian ancestry caste obessessors can also stand down, a variety of OBC groups from disparate geographies and a diverse array of genetic proportions of AASI, steppe, and iranic mesolothic HG related ancestry do quite well.

      The issue is not genetic potential for intelligence. The issue is nutrition and a society without sufficient law and order to ensure meritocracy and opportunity in a free system with good individual rights, property- both intellectual and physical- protections, and contract enforcement.

      The issue is fundamentally a lack of civic virtue in the subcontinent. A lot of this is exacerbated by idiotic leftist policies and stupid religious battles. Of course, caste, ethnicity, and language also play a role. The state caters to identity politics and each group is at each others’ throats.

      The tribalistic and communal tendencies of the native culture erode all civic virtue. Look at the nonsensical comment above generalizing an entire group. It’s become so common that it’s practically defining of Indian discussions. I can only keep thinking: “Pooja, what is this behavior?!”

      1. Its more like 93 in the UK. GWAS put various Indian groups around Latino values as well. There are good reasons why I have said in the past that India can strive to be like certain south American countries like Chile or Argentina. Brazil would be a pessimistic end of the prediction on the other hand. Somewhere between Uruguay and Brazil on per capita basis.

        1. What do you think explains higher average income and A levels results? Just pure hard work?

          It just seems like the Israeli situation. Discordant IQ and achievement. And before anyone brings up it is only Ashkanazis with high average, that still doesn’t explain Israeli average in high 80s with them as a solid chunk (like 1/3) of Israel’s population. That would mean others are what in the high 70s? Makes no sense.

          1. and of course Lynn dismisses the result as an anomaly in the conclusion and goes into higher education of parents. the guy is questionable himself, to grossly understate it.

          2. 93 was from some older source, the black Caribbean IQ is different from what I remember as well. But I do remember the GWAS sources which are more recent and use EDU as proxy for iq if you want those for a population comparison. As for Israel IIRC Israeli Ashkenazim scores aren’t quite the same as American ones either.

          3. I mean we can compare. But a directly measured IQ in children age 5 is better than proxy scores, IMO. 97 seems to be the best data point we have. It is from 2013. And yes older sources from the 70s do cite West Indian immigrants of Indian origin to have IQ 91-93 but those have surely come up, given minority improvement in IQ across the ango developed world, from Flynn effect (eg. More equitable nutrition and health care access).

          4. What is peculiar is how Indians ended up 10 points higher than other South Asians. If this is truly reflective of the population average back in South Asia it would be absurd. You can make the inbreeding excuse for Pakistan but what about Bangladesh? Not just that but in GWAS studies South Asians in South Asia have similar averages while South Asians outside of South Asia have a noticeably different averages. This just looks like a case of selective immigration.

          5. Also Indians are something like the second highest paid ethnic group in the UK second only to the Chinese. In the US Indians are highest bar none. But the US case is almost never used to represent what could be the general Indian average.

          1. A lot of the same kinds of comments you would have seen with intelligence/cognitive testing in the past as well. Several new specific aspects of discussion do pop up because biology/genetics involves content which isn’t discussed in psychology and such (obviously, otherwise they’d be the same thing), but the general trend of discussion is similar. Nothing new under the Sun generally speaking.

  10. “Heck, their women are always eager to marry white males.”

    Hypergamy is a phenomenon seen in every society, this is likely true of Indian females too, but they are probably constrained by stricter social restrictions.

    1. Sort of. Indian females are less fetishsized by white american males. The E Asian White Male pairing is based on mutual like. Dating website data also supports this.

  11. In other news, apparently a new cult of “Korona Mata” (Mother Corona) has emerged in Uttar Pradesh

  12. this is likely true of Indian females too, but they are probably constrained by stricter social restrictions.

    Much larger proportion of Indians are 1st gen migrants (less likely to intermarry) than among Koreans or other East Asian groups. In addition, Indians are divided by caste in a way that e.g. Chinese just are not, so intermarriage rates for Indians in America should take caste & community into account, IMHO. That would show much higher intermarriage rates than is commonly perceived.

    What surprised me most when I read Pew’s report on Asian-Americans a few years ago was that Indian-East Asian marriages were far less common than Indian-White marriages. So it isn’t just hypergamy, because plenty of East Asians make a lot of money. By contrast, Chinese or Filipinos were much more likely to intermarry with other East Asian ethnic groups, so there is a color barrier even among Asians, which is one of the issues with Asian-American activism.

  13. https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2021/05/the-key-reason-the-u-s-lost-in-afghanistan/

    “Despite Pakistan’s track record, some delusions persist at the highest level of the U.S. government. “Pakistan has a special role to play in supporting peace, and senior U.S. officials and I have been in close touch with Pakistan’s leaders over the past several weeks,” Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. point man on Afghanistan, told Congress April 27. “We have urged Pakistan’s leaders to exercise their considerable leverage over the Taliban to reduce violence and support a negotiated settlement.”

    Don’t hold your breath. The United States is likely to end up losing its longest war, just as it ended up losing its then-longest war in Vietnam. The parallels are pertinent, and their lessons should be learned to keep the nation from making the same mistake a third time. Both wars bogged down because of support and supply lines beyond the borders of South Vietnam and Afghanistan.”


    1. It is amusing to see CIA and US government officials scampering to secure US airbases in Pakistan

      Copying a twitter summary:

      ”First, the CIA Director William Burns showed up to meet DG ISI asking for bases in Pakistan to support US counter terror ops in Afghanistan.

      He was referred to the PM office for any such commitment.


      Then, CIA Director William Burns paid a courtesy call to COAS & asked for a commitment to provide bases in Pakistan to support US counter terror ops in Afghanistan.

      He was referred to the PM office for any such commitment.


      Then, CIA Director William Burns sought a meeting with the PM to ask for commitment to provide bases in Pakistan to support US counter terror ops in Afghanistan.

      He was politely informed that US admin needs to engage with the PM office as per diplomatic protocol.


      Then, US Sec of State called Pakistani FM to ask for commitment to provide bases in Pakistan to support US counter terror ops in Afghanistan.

      He was referred to the PM office for any such commitment.


      Then, US Sec of State approached the PM office for a call with the PM to ask for commitment to provide bases in Pakistan to support US counter terror ops in Afghanistan.

      He was politely informed that US admin needs to engage with the PM office as per diplomatic protocol.


      Then, US Sec of Defense called the COAS asking for a commitment to provide bases in Pakistan to support US counter terror ops in Afghanistan.

      He was referred to the PM office for any such commitment.


      US President hasn’t approached the PM office because he knows what the answer of PM would be upon such a request.

      Biden admin must bear the burden of US establishment’s prolonged disregard for Pakistani national interests while pursuing US interests in the region.


      1. “Biden admin must bear the burden of US establishment’s prolonged disregard for Pakistani national interests while pursuing US interests in the region.”


        Unless I am missing something here, Americans own Afghanistan to build bases as and where they please. But these are fat Americans we are talking about, no historic world power’s global hegemony ended as quickly as theirs’s would, so who knows?

        1. Americans are leaving Afghanistan from September 2021, as reiterated by Biden as recently as April. The Taliban are stronger than ever since the war began, and the Americans don’t want to fight another Taliban insurgency if they don’t leave. What’s going to happen next is that the Taliban will topple the American backed government in Afghanistan. The recent US anxiety over securing bases of operations in Pakistan is to ensure that they retain some military capability in the region to ensure the survival of the Afghan government.. but seeing that Pakistan is not interested in having an pro Indian govt in Afghanistan, it is denying those bases. The only other option the US has left is to seek bases in Russian satellite states in Central Asia but its a logistical and geopolitical nightmare that only hands advantage to Russia.
          So all in all, the Afghan government is doomed.

          1. Taliban has enough popular support among Pashtun Tribes on both sides of Durand line as well as heavy Pak support. It is well positioned

          2. Let us think about what you are saying:

            Americans who can easily defend a base in Afghanistan even if the entire Pakistan army shows up, would leave all their bases in Afghanistan from where they can sheesh-kebab Mullah-fuck-ullah and will rely on duplicitous and whiny Pakistan for bases!! That is such a stupid plan.

            I mean it can happen, but it would take one heck of a dumb American.

            Anyways, sannu ki?

            I think India should absorb every bit of talent from Afghanistan it could get its hands on. Afghan Ganjedi Pakistan ke, aur wannabe-Ferdowsi humare.

          3. Military conflicts don’t work like that. Americans can certainly defend any base in Afghanistan, but at what cost? Another round of insurgency means increased military cost, more political blowback at home and abroad, logistical issues, low army morale, rise in KIA’s etc etc just Vietnam blueprint repeating again.. When the costs of holding some hill unnecessarily starts to increase exponentially, the willingness to do so declines as well.

            One of the reasons why China has not yet attacked, invaded and annexed Taiwan despite the enormous military advantage is because they feel like the cost (economic + military + political) to do so is going to be so much higher than to act. But that’s coming soon though.

            On another note, I think India should stop dreaming about access to Central Asia – they don’t have the geography for it. Pakistan sees that as their future domain of influence.. we tried that in 90’s unsuccessfully, but that project is not dead and I think will be rekindled soon enough.

          4. You are quite the optimist about China and Pak and pessimist about India. A true nationalist you are

          5. ” but at what cost? ”
            Whatever costs less than placating Pakistan.

            “Another round of insurgency means increased military cost more political blowback at home and abroad, logistical issues, low army morale, rise in KIA’s etc etc just Vietnam blueprint repeating again.”

            And the genius solution is to take bases in Pakistan!

            “One of the reasons why China has not yet attacked, invaded and annexed Taiwan despite the enormous military advantage is because they feel like the cost (economic + military + political) to do so is going to be so much higher than to act. But that’s coming soon though.”

            Above my pay-grade so I don’t give a shit. India is too weak to matter anyways.

            “On another note, I think India should stop dreaming about Central Asia. Pakistan sees that as their future domain of influence.. we tried that in 90’s unsuccessfully, but that project is not yet dead.”

            Kya bakchodi hai yeh Qureshi!

            ? Dil-Dil Pakistan! Jaan-Jaan Pakistaaaaannnn

          6. //Whatever costs less than placating Pakistan.//

            Well placating Pakistan seems to be the cheapest for the Americans. And perhaps their only option.

            //And the genius solution is to take bases in Pakistan!//

            It’s the only solution for them to retain any sort of strategic presence in the Af-Pak region. There are no morals in geopolitics, and America does not have friends or foes, just interests. Even the US establishment knows this, this is why they can’t do much even when they found Bin Laden in Pakistan.

            //Kya bakchodi hai yeh Qureshi!//

            I am just telling you this is the long term plan.. don’t trust me, take it from Indian journals:


          7. Bhimrao is such a bitchmade loser. Does he have any contributions to make apart from catty, desperate attempts at trying to own far more intelligent, productive people like Qureishi? I’d say get laid, but you’re a dude who act like a bitch, so I guess get a sex change instead. No wonder India’s in such a dire state with all these chickenshit men.

            And warlock: facts don’t care about your feelings. Your empty nationalist thoughts and prayers aren’t going to lift India to greatness. ART and CULTURE will. A vision of the future. Which Hindus have none because they’re too busy touching themselves over millennia-old artificats. I wrote a comment about the worthlessness of guju brahmins, and you had nothing to say except cope. Instead you want to ruin India even more by importing Western liberalism, too clueless to understand that all the problems in the West are the consequences of liberalism. But of course, you do, you’ve got your nice position in the US, so you have only to gain.

  14. https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/india/horror-tales-emerge-as-bengal-gang-rape-survivors-move-sc/amp_articleshow/83497596.cms

    Even left leaning TOI reports it. Are these crimes against humanity meaningless to some? Just sad. Immediate President’s rule after this started.

    Bengal is Anarchy. From a city Lee Kwan said he wish Singapore would be like in the 1950s. To a complete leftist disaster today. Just sad. And leftists have become more and more radicalislamoapologist over time. 1971 will repeat itself in small waves, if action is not taken.

      1. Ironic

        Left justifies killing all these innocent people because the bigger picture here is “fighting fascism”

        Meanwhile you’re calling it a sacrifice

        Although tbh you seem like an exception here, most of the right is pretty mad about the fact that nothing is being done

  15. I have just started working with a new 15-year old summer intern. He’s still in high school but is probably more familiar with various programming tools than I was at 25. There’s at least a small crop of really smart kids coming up in the country.

    The catch here is that he studies at an international school and his dad is a hot shot in the startup ecosystem.
    Unfortunately, most kids are never going to have this level of access and exposure. The ones who do will move to the US or UK for college, probably never to come back.

  16. Earlier, there was an interesting discussion about Indians being competent technically vs being a good leader. People were weighing on the merits of being ambitious vs being competent.

    Clearly, Indian billionaire Nikhil Kamath (founder of Zerodha) thinks that competence is overrated, ambition is the way to go, even if it means cheating to win in a charity event in a chess game against one of the greatest chess players of all time. Then doubling down and then calling everyone else stupid for not recognizing that he meant to cheat in the first place.


    1. He is a complete clown. Billionaires think their money makes them Demi Gods or something. He has no honor. And this incident should draw more scrutiny into his business practices.

      Ambition is good. But one needs ethics.

    2. The hyper competent Anand and the hyper ambitious Kamath.

      Both parties in this case are Indian. Both are brahmins from south of the Vindhyas.

      Gee its almost like your nationality and caste don’t determine your character.

      1. @Sumit.

        You are right because generally that’s the case.

        However here is the thing: what I am hearing is that several others were also cheating at that event. The way it works is that people just wanted to show a respectable face and they try to cheat to appear formidable when they are not even at a newbie level. Nikhil’s rating was like 836 on Chess.com.. I played better chess than Nikhil when I was 4. He was playing a grandmaster.

        The only reason you heard about this is because Nikhil was stupid enough to actually go on and press his winning advantage (others usually would not do that), and Anand recognizing that he was playing a n00b using Stockfish.. he actually made a power move and resigned (even though Anand could have won on time). Anand’s resignation is what made this incident blow up.

        Nikhil was not the only one cheating.. he just got his cover blown by Anand. What does this tell you about prevalent corporate & celebrity attitude? I just found that interesting that it was not just one guy who was cheating, he was the only one whose cover was blown.

    3. Not Indians.
      “South Asians”

      In any case, it doesn’t seem to have been a competitive match and he didn’t intend to present it as a legit win. Why then the hue and cry around it?

      1. Prats,

        ..which is even worse, because why would anyone want to cheat in a non-competitive match at a charity event against one of the best chess players of all time?

      2. He claims he dropped out of school to become chess-pro.

        Zerodha is one of the best tech companies in India. They generate real money and pay developers well. This guy should have kept laying low, now he will find out how much Indians love mud slinging. The good thing is his company is bootstrapped and no competitor does it anywhere near as good as them.

        1. His chess rating is 836 in 30 games. This is probably bottom 20 percentile on chess.com (since everyone and their grandma has a chess account there) and (would be equivalent to) bottom 2-3% on some other more mature chess sites newbies don’t visit.

          I don’t buy that story about him dropping out of school to become a chess pro.. maybe that’s just bullshit for publicity.. I’m sure he is very competent at his own field.. I’m not singling him out, since others in that event are being suspected of cheating as well but cheating at a charity event online.. wtf lol.. maybe its more scandalous to me since I love chess.

          1. Bhimrao, why do you argue about things you dont know much about..
            look at your link.. shows no games played for last 15 years and just one tournament, and we don’t even know whether he scored a couple of victories by timeout or disqualification or no-show, and we don’t know the quality of his opponents either. Who knows whether he was cheating and using an engine back then too? And I have a suspicion you don’t know how the ELO system works if you are basing your judgement on this.

            >Would he have ranked sixth all time best player in Pakistan with that rating?

            I am pushing 1900 (on gameknot) which will probably translate to 2100 or so on chess.com. I don’t see my name there. You know why, because you are doing a stupid comparison. Most Pakistanis like me are not playing tournaments that gives you a FIDE rating because chess is not a commonly played sport here, however with the advent of online chess, we know what our skill level is. I have never played a FIDE tournament in my life.

            Chess.com is not just ”some website”, it is literally *the* website for chess, where all GMs from Carlsen to Anand play. This guy is rated 836 on chess.com.

          2. “Bhimrao, why do you argue about things you dont know much about..”
            Aaraam se zara ab… Which part of ‘would’ and ‘maybe’ you did not understand? I let you speculate and speak your mind on ADAS about things you probably learnt on Sandy Munroe just a few weeks ago, chill maro aur kam phudako…

            I am trying to figure out if he indeed dropped out to play chess or is he prone to bullshitting.

            He seems to have started playing on chess.com around 10th June 2021.

  17. Pratap Bose of Tata has moved to Mahindra. Hope he saves us from the ugliness of Mahindra cars.

    Situation remains unclear about Guenter Butschek vs Marc Llistosella for position of TATA Motors CEO. I personally love what Guenter has done to their lineup, discontinuing their dated designs and starting with a blank sheet for Tiago, Altroz, Harrier and Nexon. With Covid down I hope he can continue for a few more years. Marc built BharatBenz from ground-up, with fierce competition in commercial vehicles segment he would have been a good choice too. Scania, MAN tapped out, AMW went broke, but Daimler India has thrived. I had read that Tata commercial vehicles and personal vehicles will be split up, hope they can find someone like Marc can run the commercial vehicle business.

    Another interesting observation is the rise of Maruti-Suzuki’s NEXA. I think they have cracked what Hero motorcycles never could, NEXA could one day be Maruti’s Lexus/Acura.

  18. Bengal government is trying to revive Shalimar Shipyard. I think it should be sold asap like Hoogly Docks and Engineers(taken over by Cochin).

    Indian private shipyards are a shit show. In the last few years we have lost Pipavav, Bharati, ABG, Tebma (taken over by Cochin). We have L&T, Dempo, Shoft and Titagarh left. Indian government is doing all it can to sink L&T.

    I once visited a shipyard in the Netherlands, what they do is just beautiful, you have to see the scale of it to believe me. They had 20 m long laser cutter beds! where they cut 2 fucking inch thick steel plates! Wish I had the money to own one (shipyard not ships).

    Jokes aside, I think we can’t beat the Koreans/Chinese at bulk crude oil carriers Koran/Japanese/Euros at cruise ships, Euros at Yatchs. What can we do better than them in shipbuilding, any ideas?

    1. Communist infestation at Indian shipyards (private or public) is high-high. They are not going to let technology take over. The problems are labor-oriented.

      We might be better off sticking to the public-private partnership model. The Indian Navy is the leading designer and integrator on the domestic scene. So little ambition!

      1. I would genuinely feel bad if L&T doesn’t make it. They are doing everything right and still the Navy can’t get over its cronyism. They have sacrificed so much for paltry business while leeches at Hindustan Shipyard, Vishakhapatnam grow fatter by the day.

        When Pipavav and Bharati closed, I understood what gora people (with my inclinations) would have felt when they got de-industrialized. I think that the foreclosures had more to do with irresponsible borrowing than anything else.

        Indian railway employees sucks at the same level as our shipyards, we just don’t see it because there is no global competition in railways.

      2. Have you seen Angriya cruise? It is a ex-Japanese ship that sails between Mumbai and Goa. Routes like Mumbai-Colombo with stops in Goa, Kochi, might be viable.

        1. Angriya – too short turnaround times – 14 hrs. Ideal cruise trip lasts 3 to 7 days or more – just the right amount of time for people to form on-board relationships with other travellers. They spend more on the ship which adds to the profitability.

          Mumbai – Kerala or even Lakshadweep would be great!

          1. I did back of the envelope calculations about the feasibility of using ships as an alternative to rail for purely purely passenger transport (ferries) along Surat-Trivandrum. Math doesn’t work out favorably for ships.

            Cruising on small scale would work in western India eventually.

  19. Thoughts on Indian made motorcycle scene outside India:

    a) Bajaj and TVS seem to be doing extremely well in exports. Bajaj is now the world’s most valuable two wheeler company by market cap (whatever that means). TVS Apache is objectively superior to Pulsars but whatever. Hopefully they can make more money abroad unlike laggards at Hero.

    b) Everyone is after Royal Enfield’s retro bikes, Mahindra launched Jawa and owns BSA, TVS has bought Norton. Exciting times ahead, my money is on Siddharth Lal, guy is a legend in the making. I hope they improve the QC, Gora people won’t swallow shit especially after paying $ 6K.

    c) I patiently wait for the day when an Indian company is going to gobble something like Harley Davidson, Ducati, Triumph or Indian whole. Bajaj already has KTM and Husqvarna.

    Why don’t more Indians in US drive motorcycles?

    1. @bhimrao

      Royal Enfield’s build quality is at the highest levels – ranking better than German and Japanese motorcycle makers. See below video from Fortnine.


      The problem is that Indian motorbike owners are penny pinchers – they never carry out routine inspections, small tweaks or regular hand holding. A 350 cc bike is an industrial piece of machinery while Indian drivers only know how to open the petrol tank to fill it.

      There is an art to motorcycle maintenance – the builder and owner are equally responsible!!

      1. I had a Hero Honda CD Dawn ( Haay gareebi!) at home.

        REs tend to get rust on their leg guards, rear shocks, frame (down-tube) and exhaust. Plus the tiring vibrations! Of the newer ones I have heard Interceptor is better but The Classic had a underdamped suspension and uncomfortable levels of vibrations through the handlebars. I think they have come up with new engines too.

        QC on Hero and Bajaj is even worse (but we get what we pay for), I can make a better tubular rear guard using a hammer and welding machine than what they put on Hero Pleasure. We once owned a Bajaj Wave that we named ‘Karwa-chauth’ because of the varying colored parts and panels in it. Bajaj stopped selling spares so had to buy another Wave to scavenge for parts. Quality wise in bikes I think TVS Apaches are a class apart, and in the league of Yamaha and Honda.

        I wish LML had survived, that way UP could have had someone to cheer for too.

        1. Rust prevention – is all through a simple trick. Prevent spot accumulation on the tubes and downframes – which means that after every drive, dust/wipe down your motorcycle. Nobody does this! They spruce up the bike, once a year, Dussehra maybe?? The environment is India is unforgiving and corrosion is just unceasing.

          If you were to ask me, Indian motorcycles are extremely forgiving – given the low care-taking by their riders. For this very reason, Indian motorbikes are popular in Africa. Same kind of environment (bad roads, rains) and low technical knowledge of riders. There is a jingle in an African country (??) – No Bajaj, No Marriage – these bikes are routinely handed over as the main dowry item.

  20. @Hoju

    Just read your reply on the previous open thread.

    You posted this-
    Looks like UP is #2 on the list of number of ISIS sympathizers arrested

    As per the 2011 census, UP has 38.4M Muslims, Kerala has 8.8M. Really no comparison when you take this into account.

    Also, these are sympathizers that were mainly caught communicating with terrorists. When it comes to people actually leaving the country and joining these groups, Kerala stands out.

    This is from 2017 (peak years of ISIS recruitment)-

    Like I said, let’s wait for a decade or so. Also, it isn’t exactly about these people joining ISIS (which is pretty dead now), it’s more about the spread of Wahhabism.

    Thing’s could’ve probably gotten pretty ugly already, but it looks like most Muslims still aren’t drawn to such radical ideologies, and NIA also does a decent job at finding the bad ones-

  21. https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2021-06-scientists-g7-breaching-15c-limit.amp

    Scientists warn G7 that cost of breaching 1.5˚C warming limit will far exceed costs of achieving it

    “Going from 1.5˚C to 2˚C warming would put hundreds of millions of people—mostly in sub-Saharan Africa and the Indian subcontinent—outside of the climate ‘niche’ that supports high human population densities today and has done in the past. It would also greatly increase their exposure to life-threatening hot and humid climate extremes.”

  22. On Afghanistan. It remains bizarre how one superpower (China) and two major regional powers (Pak+Ind) cannot deal with such a small country but are forced to rely on Uncle Sam. They have nobody to blame but themselves for the mess there. At any rate, Pakistan’s leverage is probably at its greatest extent now since 9/11, largely thanks to the US-Chinese contest.

    Quereshi, OBL being in Pakistan was not a fluke nor was it unknown to the US. The US knew *perfectly well* he was there and could have finished him off for a very long time. OBL was in fact very close to the US, and possibly even a CIA agent at some point. Some speculate he never stopped being one. I listened to leaked calls of former CIA director George Tenet and his extraction of al-Maliki in Yemen during the 1990s. He strenously tried to free the jihadist, which puzzled the Yemenite authorities. Uncle Sam’s long backing of jihadists, going back to the early 1980s, is well-known and has never stopped. Even John Kerry admitted that ISIS was allowed to rise until they lost control of it. And many of their members were former affiliates with al-Qaida and armed and equipped by Western arms.

    Pakistan had a role as “jihadist enabler” for the US during the 1980s. Turkey had that role with Syria in the 2010s. It’s not something to brag about, and you certainly shouldn’t delude yourself that you’re running the show here.

    P.S. why are you people quoting the pseudoscientific racist Richard Lynn as some kind of authority? Lynn’s nonsense theories put India’s IQ at 82, which is obviously massively misleading due to huge malnourishment. “Low-caste” Indians emigrated en masse to Singapore and have done very well for themselves there, the entire framework is nonsense and not in accordance with observable reality. After Ugra’s self-hatred comments about Indians not being fit for certain tasks, we get this. Why the self-loathing? Folks, it’s embarrassing to watch.

    1. You can bank on @principia to blow smoke from both ends of a pipe.

      Afghanistan is a military no-man’s land – lack of a logistics trail. The West burnt their bridges in Iran – the only other way to get into Afg. So they shut one of the doors themselves.

      For India, Afg merely is a potential hedge based on the Mandala theory. Indians haven’t forgotten the hordes of barbarians streaming from Afg in last 1000 years. Let them stew in their asabiya juice. India has no incumbent obligation to save or rescue them.

      @principia will also not rest until every adult Indian gets behind a tailoring machine and churns out XL cotton vests for the average European.

      1. @Ugra

        India passing the buck on Afghanistan – a country on its doorstep – is a dereliction of any major superpower pretentions. Even a mere regional power should be influencing things. Whether Afghanistan can be saved or even “managed” is irrelevant. It’s about who is calling the shots – and India has taken itself out of the game. As has China, by the way. So I’m being an equal opportunity denigrater here. It’s simply pathetic that two major powers are hapless and clueless in their own backyard to another power overseas.

        Your jihad against India’s manufacturing sector’s potential is amusing to me, but if babus in India had the same bias as you against mass manufacturing then it makes sense why India fell behind China. Still feeling jilted over me calling out your poor economic understanding? 🙂

        1. @principia

          Just ignoring your conspiracy theories on OBL aside (which may have some merit but are still batshit insane).. Afghanistan is not India’s backyard. It shares no border with India (fanciful imagination doesn’t count).. nor does it have any real cultural ties with India. Any Indian attempt to influence Afghanistan will therefore end in failure. Look at the US spending hundreds of billions of dollars propping up the Afghan government and training the Afghan national army. After 20 years they have nothing to show for it so I am not sure why you think India can influence that country when even the US could not.

        2. “India has taken itself out of the game.”

          And rightly so. India does not have the money or the stomach.

          Plus even if Taliban topple the government (which they won’t be able to) then Afghanistan is not going to become some investment or opportunity haven that we will be left out of. Chinese couldn’t do anything in Mes Aynak copper mine for over 15 years now.

          That Jindal guy came the closest to a win-win situation with Nawaz Sharif regarding Hajigak iron mine, but well Pakistanis…

          Afghanistan is a resource sink, and India is a poor country. Let our neighboring geo-strategists waste a couple more decades on it. The longer this wound festers the deeper enmity it will breed.

          1. “Afghanistan is a resource sink, and India is a poor country. Let our neighboring geo-strategists waste a couple more decades on it.”

            Amen to that, brother. Geo-strategy and such is the luxury of prosperous countries, India (and frankly other south asian countries too) should hunker down and maximise for prosperity as much as possible. I love a bit of speculative history and geo-strategy as much as the next guy but Pakistani dreams of ‘becoming big in central asia due to close cultural ties’ sound as fanciful as Indian dreams of extending influence over ‘Indic’ SE Asia. In both cases, there are better established, entrenched powers (Iran, Russia, China, etc.) that simply aren’t going to give way. And for all talk of Pakistani influence in Afghanistan, the average Afghan has nothing but contempt for Pakistan, just like the average Sri Lankans turn their nose up at India. Prosperity talks, and in the grand scheme of things S Asian countries are just too poor for delusions of even regional power.

          2. +1

            Bihar’s GDP per capita is about the same as Afghanistan.

            Let people reap what they sow.

        3. @principia

          You are being flippant about geopolitical realities. Afg is not on India’s doorstep. If it were, it will be viewed differently in the Mandala theory. Fun fact for you: Iran is closer access-wise to India than Afg.

          I am now pretty sure you were not a Indian babu in your previous incarnation – if you were, I wouldn’t be commenting here in such nice English. I would be stitching shirtsleeves for 12 hours a day 🙂

          1. @Ugra
            Stiching shirt sleeves would be a step up for the vast majority of Indians though

          2. @ Narasingha Deva

            You are assuming that’s what the average Indian wants. Whereas almost a lot of Indians organize a lot to prevent the relaxation of labor laws which are inimical to the formation of sweatshops.

            Just to check – would you like to enable someone in your near circle to prepare for a lifetime of stitching?

            People miss this facet of Indian democracy – Indians have voted again and again to prevent the relaxation of labour laws which inhibit sweatshops.

            China has forced this on their masses. It’s growth oriented and will look good on statistics but people do not like it.

    1. I have seen marble slabs being transported and sold in wooden pallets like that in India for a long time. Either that or in places like Kishangarh in Rajasthan or Jigani near Bangalore where trucks directly carry huge blocks of quarried stone to be processed by big saws.

  23. “the Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs, chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, approved the Deep Ocean Mission with an estimated cost of Rs 4,077 crore. The mission aims to develop capabilities for deep sea mineral mining, and development of a manned vehicle that can go six kilometers deep in the ocean”

    @Ugra @Vikram
    Realistically other than fossil fuels what are the readily available resources that can be extracted from deep sea by India? Or is it like the t tends to 50+ years promises of space mining?

    Deep sea petroleum engineering people seem to be very competent and wealthy, only people I know who easily make more than Googlers. I know a guy from IIT M whose company sells subsea ROVs to Norwegian companies, check this out:


    1. One word – methane hydrates. Read up on it. We are a petro-state, but we don’t act like one.

      1. I read the details, seems to be forever stuck 20+ year into the future. This would need billions of dollars invested in processing know-how that India does not have. Also given Americans are not the dodgy OPEC and will not let Natural Gas prices rise, I don’t see how the investment would be worth it. Going alone is risky as our forever 20+ year into the future Thorium plans prove. Hopefully Japanese can pull something off and we can ride the wave.

        1. Defeatist! We have a very good offshore exploration framework. NG production has been taking off very well. A rupee in investment fetches almost twenty rupees in revenue – better than gold mining.

          1. Cautious would better describe my attitude.

            Fingers crossed. Hope this works out, the effort involved would be like ISRO but it would make a lot more money. If people can pump concrete mixes through pipes maybe pumping sludge from ocean floor would not be that hard. It would be cakewalk for Kirloskar to build big ass pumps to do this. Processing this sludge would be a whole different game that I have no idea about. Let us see.

  24. who is following liny srinivasan’s ‘fight’ with most on the discussion of egyptian words coming into vedic corpus. she cuts out everybody who do not fit into her theory.

  25. @Ugra
    Most Indian workers are in the informal economy, where they don’t benefit from the labour laws. If the laws were watered down, it would create more jobs in the formal economy. Even if the labour laws were weakened, someone in the formal economy would still have more legal protection than someone in the informal one. I think the reason there is so much opposition to this is that this hasn’t been communicated properly and the blue collar workforce in formal sector, which has the most to lose by this, is more organized than the informal one.

    1. @Narasingha Deva

      Let us be specific. The informal economy is created by design and is a consequence of the labour laws. It is not via accident, lack of communciation or intelligence.

      Labour Union laws apply to establishments having over 100 employees only.
      Wage laws apply to firms over 20 people only.
      EPFO, Gratuity Act also for over 20 people only.

      Therefore the creation of the informal economy is a conscious decision by the political establishment of India and its voters. The reasons – small firms should not carry the burden of compliance and administrative overheads.

      Classic economic theory also says that with lesser rules – the bottom of the pyramid is freer to make rational economic choices.

      Indian MSME’s refuse to cross the Lakshman-rekha and become a bigger firm because it would dramatically increase their overheads. Therefore they remain small and independent and viable.

      It is their livelihood choice. Let us take that into account – not berate them for failing to grow to our desires.

        1. They are in the direction of increasing the informal economy. Bigger firms are being allowed to hire and fire without oversight.

          It is a way to help the MSME’s graduate. But question is at what cost to the worker? In the West, even firms with 5 people need to observe laws. So do you want to go the way of the West or China?

    1. Some more ISPR khurafaat. Subhash Chandra, owner of Zee, must be smiling, he toyed with them with Zee Zindagi. If Shiv Sena were not stupid we might have imported better looking Adnan Samis in the past decade.

  26. https://twitter.com/janakp14/status/1405237786249105409

    “Reminded me of these words of Naipaul:

    “the state that had appeared to some as God itself, a complete earthly reward for the faithful, lived not so much by its agricultural exports or by the proceeds of its minor, secondary industries, as by the export of its people.””

    Seems Pakistan and Kerala have at least one similarity

    1. “They appealed to the ideals of the alien civilization whose virtue they denied at home.
      And in the eyes of the faithful there was no contradiction”

      Seeks secularism in France and US, needs partition in India.
      Seeks equality in Canada, imposes inequality on Ahmadis.

      But honestly screw Pakistani Ahmadis, they had it coming.

        1. What about GM syed? He was an Indian nationalist who became disillusioned and joined the Pakistan movement, and then became a Sindhi nationalist due to which he was expelled from the Muslim league even before Pakistan was created. He was pretty consistent on what he wanted though: autonomy for Sindh..and denial of that autonomy led to his disillusionment first from Indian nationalism, then from the Muslim League and Pakistan.

    2. Emigration generally has an inverse parabolic relationship with development — as places go from stone age to medium development, emigration increases. As places go from middle development to upper development, emigration decreases.

      It’s possible one day that places like UP and Bihar will leave the stone age and get to the level of development where emigration begins to increase.

  27. Naipaul’s ancestors were deracinated which could have created an identity conflict for him as he did not belong to the land he was born in, nor did he follow a religion like Islam which he could use to justify that sense of belonging. Perhaps this is why he cannot comprehend globalist tendencies of Islam and grapples with yet ultimately fails to understand the Muslim psyche.

    As the Quran said: ”He it is Who hath made the earth subservient unto you, so Walk in the paths thereof and eat of His providence.” (Quran 67:5) – Muslims are encouraged to go explore different lands. The ‘Hijrah’ or ‘Migration’ is almost a sacred event that is woven into Islamic history, as early Muslims left their homeland (first to Abyssinia) and then to Madinah, and the migrants were always held in high esteem in Islam. Thus, there is no contradiction for a Muslim between wanting a homeland based on Islam but then also leaving that homeland for some other place as long as he/she can practice their religion freely.

    As Iqbal put it succinctly:
    ”Cheen o Arab hamara, Hindustan hamara,
    Muslim hain hum, vatan hai sarah jahan hamara”

  28. https://theprint.in/india/how-kcr-built-his-tirumala-dream-in-telangana-rs-1200-cr-non-stop-work-through-covid/679011/

    “In 2019, during the campaign for the Lok Sabha election, KCR had criticised the Bharatiya Janata Party for its ‘Hindutva’ politics. “Yours is political Hindutva, ours is true Hindutva… spiritual Hindutva,” had been his refrain.

    He had said he was a ‘bigger Hindu’ than others but would ‘never use religion to further his political agenda’.”

    1. Just like with Rajnikanth, Its actually Indra who was slained by Srbinda (or as he known in India as Shree-Vrindavan)

      I know, i will see myself out…

    2. What linguistic analysis reveals:
      Srbinda name only occurs in the new books, specifically book 8. It is not there in the earliest Rig Vedic Books. Most probably, Slavics emerged very late ~1500 BC; in fact, according to linguistics, proto slavic formation date is ~1500-1000 BC. It is well known that Slavic culture emerged/was influenced by the Iranian culture; their language shares the most commonality with Iranian, Baltic and German after all.

      And the word is suggestive of their origin from Iranians as in later Vedic period, Iranians and Vedic Indians developed separate identities; were neighbours; and had a common culture. Subsequently, Slavics may have emerged after being foot soldiers in Iranian battles as they were nomads. After interacting with Baltics and subsequently with Germans, they probably formed their separate identities. Rig Veda may have remembered the name of the Baltic-Slavic group that came to form Slavics.

  29. https://twitter.com/ReallySwara/status/1404827411674394627

    “RW & Sanghis vomiting on my timeline ‘coz Ghaziabad police named 3 Muslims. Jackasses the prime accused is literally a Pravesh Gujjar. The man is on camera forcing the old man to chant #JaiShriRam
    Yes it is a desecration of my God and my religion and I’m ashamed.. as shud you be”

    As i have said umpteen time, as long as Hindu-dom doesnt have concepts like excommunication, it will remain a weak religion infested with internal saboteurs.

    Always, lesser (stronger) Asabiya than bigger(looser) Asabiya, for the win…

    1. The only way forward for India is to become a Hindu Rashtra. That is the only way to unite the Nation.

  30. Saurav forget excommunication, evangelism is where it’s at. Hindus are weridly proud of not being evangelical, but that’s a losing strategy. Abrahamics laugh all the way to the (soul)bank.

    1. The Islamic Memoplex is almost perfect:

      – any one who marries into your religion must convert
      – harshly punish anyone who leaves, criticizes or proselytizes
      – proselytize your own religion very heavily
      – maintain a sense community by adherence to religious standards rather to bloodlines
      – welcome new comers with open arms
      – incentivize high levels of fertility
      – outlaw any religious innovation

      Maybe Hindus can emulate a milder version of some of these.

      1. In my opinion, the key difference is Islam appeals to Alpha males. OTOH Hinduism and Catholicism are geared towards controlling Alpha males. Feminism will ally/oppose with any system which increases/decreases the average of number sexual partners for females.

  31. https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1405931394451312645

    ” those who have made the utterly insensitive film #DhoopKiDeewar should read this. earlier, a Kashmiri sent me the trailer of the film; i asked her if it was some new B’wood crap. i was stumped when i was told that it is a Pakistani film. not just that but it’s approved by ISPR.”

    Whole thread is gold

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