I don’t have much to add to this. I do notice however that in the Shires (which are still very English); the English are much more guarded about the “demographic transformation.”

It’s almost like a silent invasion (the Home Counties have changed irreversibly in a generation) and even though the terminology is somewhat loaded, the English are unused to being a minority in their own country (understandably so).

Scotland is still demographically very white British and accordingly their main animus remains with the English as opposed to immigrants (who they want).

What is interesting however (and Razib touched on this in our podcast) South Asians almost always perceive themselves to be a minority. India is so diverse that no one caste dominates and in Pakistan the birdaderi clan caste identity is important in parts of the Punjab.

So in a way South Asians haven’t internalised homogeneity as Europeans have done in the past few centuries (Treaty of Westphalia for Germany, Treaty of Versailles for the East).

10 thoughts on “London(istan)”

  1. Re: A different perspective

    Zack, let me put a different perspective on this text. You just remained me when you put Serbian words in your title. As some probably know London is a word of Serbian origin (so as Thames), even Wikipedia says this but avoiding Serbian name. Btw, the first name for London was also Serbian word – Troy!!. We know already that STAN is also a Serbian word, frequently used in modern language.

    It is still not widely known that Celts (Greek name for Goths, i.e. Gals in today’s France) were a Serbian worriers’ rank originated in today’s Serbia (Danube) with a mission to go, find new land and not come back. For example, they established first colonies in Spain and Portugal which was on medieval maps still called Serbia. It was the similar case with British isles. Celts were indigenous until Germanic English came and pushed them in the corners (Scotland, Wales, Ireland). Btw, English language was formed 800 years ago and incorporated many words from Serbian language which is several thousands years older. English are forcing the name British to present themselves and Scots as one entity, one royal family to hide the fact that they are intruders on other tribes land. Because of this, prince Charles couple times in a year acts as clown wearing Scottish kilt without underpants.

    What is the point? Considering the fact that many Indians and Pakistanis are also Aryans descendants (more than 100 millions in India), it means that many of you guys are, having the same ancestors, cousins with Celts and you can claim that British Isles are your homeland, too. It means that you can say to your English neighbors that you are on your ancestors’ land and that they came much later as more or less unwanted immigrants. And be gratuitous, tell them that you don’t mind for them to remain there and that, as yours guests, they can feel as in their own home. And ask them to return Sanskrit again to primary schools, it is nice to see how English kids sing songs in Sanskrit, the language of your ancestors.

    For those who find previous unbelievable (it is still not mainstream but it is the factual truth) you can ask Razib for confirmation or you can read and connect couple Wiki things by yourselves and check (you do not need to be an expert) any genetics map on the web.

      1. Jaggu,

        Sanskrit was originally Aryan language. It means that it came with R1a to SA at least 2500 years before Islam. Considering that, for example, Pakistan was about in the middle of ancient Aryan territory (I will write about this) it means that definitely some Muslims are Aryan descendants. It also applies for Afghanistan (there is a tribe with same name as one in Serbian Montenegro), Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kurdistan, Iran, Nepal, etc.It is possible that SA people who later accepted Islam, abandoned Sanskrit (it would be a good research topic) and lost memory of this, while Hindu people continued to nurture Sanskrit. Without local knowledge I could be wrong in some details.

        1. Milan, did R1 come from Scandanavia circa 13K BC?

          Are all of us R1?

          Do you think R1 created Arya culture; or did they learn this from another haploid admixture race or another non homo sapien hominid? If R1 created Arya culture, when might this have happened?

          What role if any do you believe Serbs played in the Ramayana?

          1. Anan,

            You have raised couple big topics. I will write my knowledge about this more extensively after we overcome basics. There are mentioning of Serbian tribes in Mahabharata (I am yet to study in details ancient epics, it was long time since I read them). I will also write about Laws of Manu which was also brought by Aryans.

            Just to say about Aryan territory (I will provide reference). Its name was Serbika and its borders were around Aral’s Sea on the north, Persia on the west, river Indus which was crossed further to the north. It was also west Indian coast including Sri Lanka which first name was Serpska dvipa (=Serbian island), i.e. Ratna dvipa in Sanskrit (= War’s island in Serbian, translated in English as Gem island) i.e Serendib which in several iterations including Arabic, became Ceylon. After huge Hindu migration to Ceylon in 504, Serbs as minority melted into local population. This territory was changing and became smaller. I think (will double check) the last remnants of Serbika were in Punjab.

          2. P.S. For history buffs – just to add references (to my previous comment) regarding Aryans land – Serbika and Aryans presence in Sri Lanka. Massive Hindu migration to Sri Lanka (previously Serendib) mentioned above was in 504 BC.

            Maybe, Sereno from Serendib can contribute some local knowledge.

            ALEXANDER CUNNINGHAM: The Ancient Geography of India, Bhartiya Publishing House, Varanasi, 1975
            POMPONIUS MELA: Oeuvres completes, J. J. Dubochet, Paris, 1845
            AMMIEN MARCELLIN: Histoire, Firmin Didot, Paris, 1869

            Another small addition to Zack’s Londonistan:

            Wiki says that Wiltshire is notable for its pre-Roman archaeology. What does not say? That, one part of the Serbian tribe Vilca moved to today’s England, where they left their name for Wiltshire. Lui Leje (French historian) says that Wiltshire is a memory on the tribe Vilce. Capital city of Wiltshire is Salisbury which previous name was Serberiam. Stonehenge and Avebury in Wiltshire are perhaps the most famous Neolithic sites in the UK. Well, Zack and his friends can go to Salisbury to enjoy further birthday dinners and feel there as at home (but avoiding noisy guests, Skripals and novichok).

  2. The Indian population proportion in London is 6.6% versus 2.7% for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Even so, the Indians seem far more spread out across London. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis seem to be rather concentrated. I wonder if different subgroups of Indians (Marathis, Punjabis, Bengalis, Jains etc) end up living in different neighbourhoods, much as they do in Mumbai.

    1. Sikhs are in Southall
      Gujaratis in Wembley (the rich one in Pinner)
      Jains and Hindu bengalis are negligible (Hindu Bengalis are an elite educated population)
      Bangladeshis Tower Hamlets
      Pakistanis east London and outside of London
      Srilankan Tamils Tooting

      Incidentally the Gujaratis are kind of now going into traditional posh Jewish areas (Golders Green even Finchley) in North London.

      Muslims are going into working class Jewish areas (Stamford Hill is heavily Orthodox Jewish)

  3. Was Nehru a Londonistani?

    David Frawley wrote:
    “Nehru’s love of Marxism was compounded by his disdain for Hinduism and his disregard for India’s great civilization and its dharmic traditions. His Marxist socialism was also an economic disaster.”

    “Genesis and Growth of Nehruism by Sita Ram Goel is an extraordinary insight into the life of Jawaharlal Nehru and his ‘Marxist addiction’, which influenced his policies for India. . . .
    In 1950, Bertrand Russell recommended a book written by an Indian author and published by a nondescript Indian publisher. None other than Sri Aurobindo personally blessed the book. It was a book written by Ram Swarup (1920-1998), Russian Imperialism: How to stop it. The publisher of the book was then living in Calcutta. In the morning of the summer of 1950, an official from the Home Ministry visited him to convey a message from then home minister Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. The message was crisp: “The Home Minister wants me to convey to you that if the work started by you is not encouraged and assisted right now, it will have to be done by Indian Army one day.” Alas! The same year the home minister became immortal. Four years later the publication would be asked to close their stall by the West Bengal government on instructions from the prime minister himself.”

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