196 Replies to “Open Thread – 01/23/2020”

  1. Anybody here listen to Joe Rogan’s new podcast episode (#1599) with Tulsi Gabbard? Looks like Tulsi is now in the IDW (Intellectual Dark Web) camp from some of the things she’s saying.

    1. (Google) What is the meaning of the name Rogan?
      Rogan as a boy’s name is of Irish and Gaelic origin, and the meaning of Rogan is “red-headed”.

      (Google) Rogan Josh is an aromatic mutton dish of Persian origin. Rogan (روغن) means “oil” in Persian, while Josh (جوش) means “heat, hot, boiling, or passionate”. Rogan Josh thus means cooked in oil at intense heat.

      >>>>> Pundits from the part#1 thread, who works today, can notice R&G in previous names!!!!

  2. One of the most undertalked achievements of India is that outstanding work on climate change. The 2021 Climate Performance Index shows India to be leading most richer countries by a landslide. What’s needed now is more attention to water.

    The farmer agitation is about MSP, but a much more important question is collapsing water tables and desertification in north-west India in particular but water is a pressing concern in the Deccan as well. Yet India’s strong position as a climate change leader should make us hopeful that it can solve the water challenge as well. No time to lose.

  3. The Purbi Arya Kisan log were of the same stock as the Sindhu Saraswati Sabhyata log who were but slightly enriched with Dakshin Purvaj log. This kind of starts making low-key sense with Talageri’s timelines. If only the Sindhu Saraswati Sabhyata log were called as Madhyama Arya, then it would make complete sense.

    1. Context – Talageri’s theory is that the Old books of the Rgveda are anterior to 3000 BC and the Eastern Iranians were originally part of the broad civilisational area in the Indus River system.

      Starting from the New Books of the Rgveda, one can see typical Iranian names (Cayamana, Cavasa etc) embroiled in war stanzas. Talageri postulates that the Eastern Iranians have begun to form a new religious doctrine (proto-Zoroastrianism) and are straying away from the ways of the Arya. They are defeated and pushed out of the Indus zone into Eastern Iran.

      Talageri sees no Dravidian substrate in the Old books of the Rgveda, but there are several loanwords in the New books. So there must be a historical interregnum between the composers of the Old books and New books. Talageri holds Dravidian influence to be in the Mature Harappan period.

      So without considering the labeling problem, this infographic merges/is merging with the textual tradition.

        1. The term Proto-Europeans is melodramatic. I believe the Bell Beaker incursions were already happening by the start of the 3rd millennium BC – archaeological attestation proves this.

          If you look at the historical parallel – the Roma people left NW India by 500 AD (ballpark estimate – various legends and genetics) and reached West Asia and Europe by 1100 AD as a group. So 600 years to make the Eurasian trek. A similar journey in the Chalcolithic/Bronze Age would be higher? I cannot hazard a guess.

          Talageri adheres to the 5 waves leaving in successive pulses.


          1. The Talageri article you linked to is rather long and I’ll go through it some other time, but I did skim through the 6 very grave flaws he identifies in the AIT. Suffice to say I didn’t find them convincing because I don’t buy the notion that if something isn’t mentioned in the Rig Veda, then it could not have happened. I think of the composers of the Rig Veda as having some agenda just like the composers of the Homeric epics or the Hebrew Bible. (Plus, these “composers” were likely spread across multiple generations.)

            So as a counter to, say, flaws #2 and #3, could the ancient Greek texts not be interpreted as suggesting an Out-of-Greece Theory? (Since Greek is clearly an IE language.) At the other end of the continent, ancient Japanese texts also seem to make the claim that the people were locals, when it seems clear now that the non-Ainu Japanese came from the Korean peninsula rather recently (around the time of the Mauryas.)

            Anyway, if you have read Talageri’s full argument and if you have the time, I’m curious about how he explains the speakers of the original IE language (or set of dialects) being confined to a small area in the northwest part of the subcontinent for eons, and spreading to the far reaches of Europe before daring to venture east and south within India proper. Because this is what the OIT would entail, and I remember saying a long time ago that the OIT could be more accurately dubbed the Out-of-Punjab theory.

          2. @Numinous

            I think of the composers of the Rig Veda as having some agenda just like the composers of the Homeric epics or the Hebrew Bible.
            Talageri’s method is exactly this – he does not hold the Rgveda in a literal frame or a sanctified position. A lot of trads have dissed him within the OIT movement.

            So as a counter to, say, flaws #2 and #3, could the ancient Greek texts not be interpreted as suggesting an Out-of-Greece Theory?
            The words for the three animals – the monkey, the tiger and the elephant – are the same in ALL the branches of the IE family. Greek, Germanic, Icelandic, Slavic, Iranian, Latin, Hittite. How did this happen? Which geographical region becomes a candidate for the PIE homeland?

            being confined to a small area in the northwest part of the subcontinent for eons
            You are greatly diminishing the extent of IVC starting from its Early to Mature phases. This is a very big area.

        2. “The words for the three animals – the monkey, the tiger and the elephant – are the same in ALL the branches of the IE family. Greek, Germanic, Icelandic, Slavic, Iranian, Latin, Hittite. How did this happen? Which geographical region becomes a candidate for the PIE homeland?”

          I am pretty sure that these names are not the same in these languages (it is easy to check). These languages were created in very different periods. So-called Slavic (i.e. Serbian) is much older than others and influenced them. I said before that original Greek (did not have this name until Aristotle and Romans) which came from Egypt/Middle East originally was NOT so-called ‘Indo-European’, it became ‘IE’ after adopting the language of indigenous people after the arrival of (future) Greek colonists to Balkan. Homer was NOT a Greek. Numinous opens good questions. Rg Veda is older than 3000BC, it seems all agree. Those who say 6000BC state that it was before a great flood which was not mentioned in Rg Veda.

          1. Haha Milan..do you know or do not wish to know? The source for elephant and ivory throughout the IE speaking world is ibha, first attested in Rgveda. This word could have only dispersed from the homeland. Where did the Portuguese/ Spanish, Hittites, Greeks or Swedish see the elephant in the Bronze Age?

            Ibha is a very ancient word, not used anymore. Today gaja/hathi is used which is also a loanword to Indonesian.

          2. And, the homeland is…?
            You probably also finished the program in the part#1? If you got the MESSAGE it means that it was successful!

  4. Why does Russia play such a large role in the mind space of the American political and security establishment? Its economy is smaller than Canada’s, and its population is 45% of America’s now. Is it just a drag-on effect since many of the legislators/analysts are over 60 and the Soviet Union was much more significant back in their youth?

    The country has a nuisance effect in the cyberworld, but outside that there’s not much they can do. The Baltics are protected by NATO, many Ukrainians now distrust Russia, outside of central Asia, the Caucasus, and Belarus, Putin doesn’t have significant influence. The Russian elite prefer western Europe and have homes and businesses there, they intermarry with them (like Putin’s daughter), and in the case of any serious crisis, the EU has enough pressure points on all the oligarchs, in terms of access to their bank transaction details and jurisdiction over landed properties, to ensure Russia’s kept in place.


    Different topic, what goes on in Pakistan’s Urdu language papers? Most of the references here are from a few English websites, the only Urdu paper I’m aware of is Jang, what about the others? What opinions do those papers hold on blasphemy, Ahmadis, women, the military, the economy, Imran Khan, India, the west, etc.? Questions also applicable for the Punjabi, Sindhi, Pathan, and Baloch language papers.

    1. In the 1990s, the American establishment viewed the remnants of the Soviet state with pity and had several co-operative projects rolling. So the current American antipathy to Russia is not rooted in the Cold War outlook.

      It’s Putin. He has restored Russian economy to a state of natural stability, invoked it’s Tsarist past and has bridged the gulf with the Eastern Orthodox Church. The Soviet state chose to cut its moorings from all these three piers and made enemies with its own past and future.

      Now a healed Russia brings back to memory, the Russian empire, predecessor of the Soviet Union. This colossus had deep military campaigns targeting Japan, Poland and Sweden – the mark of a true continental power.

      And there is a new Soviet Union to the West….the EU!! This is on every imaginable economic and administrative metric……an attempt by European elites to recreate a vast welfarist state like the Soviets. And horror of horrors, this union does not have a common Army.

      So the new fox waits patiently at the door of the chicken coop while the farmer frets from across an ocean.

  5. It is unbelievable how pundits have no the slightest idea about the root-cause of US russia-phobia.

    1. It is unbelievable how pundits have no the slightest idea about the root-cause of US russia-phobia.”

      would like to know your take on this. (please be short though 🙂 )

      my own guess is that it is tribal and primeval. (slavs vs germanics).

    1. This shit happens all over S Asia. Dumb as hell mentally colonized behavior. Good she was exposed. Somehow “english skills” became a marker of both intellect and class rather than just the latter, something that’s an issue in and of itself regardless.

  6. https://twitter.com/viditaatrey/status/1352889052643483648

    Vidit Atrey, CEO of Meeso – one of India’s largest social commerce platform.

    “At a Meesho community event in Varanasi, an entrepreneur once told me that she hides her online business from her family because her father-in-law once told her “Humare itne bure din nahi aaye ki ghar ki bahu ko kaam karna pade”.

    A long way to go for India!”

    Translation of the last line-
    “We have not fallen on such hard times that the house’s daughter-in-law needs to work”

    Deep seated cultural issues. Not sure if or when this will change.

    1. Yup. India has pathetic labor force participation rates among women. China’s cultural revolution did more harm than good, but it did get more women into the labor force.

  7. “Sanskrit Epics Animated in Stone: Ornately-carved pillars and friezes from a 16th-century South Indian temple bring the stories of the Ramayana and Mahabharata to life.” By Lee Lawrence on Jan. 22, 2021 at https://www.wsj.com/articles/sanskrit-epics-animated-in-stone-11611346248

    But while the configuration in the museum follows basic conventions for mandapas, it does not replicate a structure that once existed. It can’t. Its 60-plus blocks of carved granite were lying in a pile of rubble when Adeline Pepper Gibson, Philadelphia heiress and lover of art, purchased them from a trustee of the Madana Gopala Swamy Temple in Madurai in 1912. …

    an artistic genre that flowered in Madurai from the late 16th to the 18th century. Anyone interested in finding out more about its genesis and development will enjoy “Sculpting Devotion in South India,” a talk Mr. Branfoot gave in 2019—accessible on the museum’s YouTube channel —and photographs of Madurai’s Meenakshi temple on Mere Pix Media’s website that illustrate a later stage with horses rearing, gods dancing, and characters interacting in full-blown vignettes.


  8. BJP is such a petty party. If LaluJi would die, of corona or any other ailments, they aren’t going to get Yadav votes in UP or Bihar ever (which mind you was shifting towards BJP – at least the urban voter was).

    I don’t know what they are going to get by prosecuting him, scams 10 times the magnitude happened in Bellari (Karnataka) but everyone is scot-free over there. They barely managed to get through this time in Bihar, if Nitish-Tejaswi come together, they can say good bye to Bihar forever.

  9. this comment was prompted by a brief discussion on animism in the other post of razib. i thought about posting it in the open thread because i am interested in knowing the opinions and experience of other readers.

    i get an impression that western writers make too much of big deal between the differences between brahminical hinduism and animistic hinduism. to me this appears somewhat misleading because i have not noticed such a sharp distinction between these two streams in my lived experience.

    religious practices of hindus form a gradient. there is streak of animism in all upper castes, including brahmins, and there is some brahminism in all lower castes, including dalits.

    kul devtas (family deities) of many brahmin clans of rajasthan, uttarakhand, UP etc are obviously tribal in origin, whom they share with surrounding peasant castes. for example one brahmin clan of rajasthan that i am quite familiar with, worships gogaji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gogaji – an incarnation of nag devta (serpent god) – as their family deity, and revers him much more than classical gods like rama or krishna.

    many religious practices of my grandfathers generation, though quite harmless and charming, will be laughed off as superstition in moderm times, i still remember when i came down with some fever in childhood at my grandfather’s house, along with a doctors visit, i am was also “treated” by a village bhopa (shaman) who circled a broom over my head chanting mysterious words.

    religious practices of rural brahmins, especially land ownings brahmins like bhumihars are really indistinguishable from other agricultural castes living around them. may be folk hinduism and brahminical hinduism were separate religious streams in the past, but centuries of coexistence has led to seepage of practices between them and made them a continuum.

    i would like to know what is the experience of readers from other parts of india. i am not that familiar with South, but i am sure its the same there.

    1. i get an impression that western writers make too much of big deal between the differences between brahminical hinduism and animistic hinduism. to me this appears somewhat misleading because i have not noticed such a sharp distinction between these two streams in my lived experience.

      the elite abrahamic tradition makes a fake dichotomy. it’s not there. the same spectrum exists in abrahamic religions when you use psychology, ethnography, and anthropology, to see what ppl really believe.

      the problem tho is it’s a axomatic point of belief in abrahmic religious that they’re philosophically dualist and that god is distinct from his creation, and that he is singular and above and beyond. this is something they all agree to on paper, but most ppl don’t internalize it in any way. so the ‘lived exp’ of sufi muslims etc. and hindus is much closer.

      the abrahamic framework got bolted onto fields such as ‘religious studies’, but really it’s just a nerd system that has minor real-world relevance

    2. “i get an impression that western writers make too much of big deal between the differences between brahminical hinduism and animistic hinduism.”

      Wasn’t aware that such a dichotomy exists. I have seen some folks make the argument that the animistic traditions of North-East or Central Indian tribals must not be considered Hinduism. I can probably concede that to an extent.

      But don’t think non-Brahmin Tamil Hindus will take very kindly to being called ‘animistic’.

      Re: personal experience

      I am mostly a deracinated urban Hindu but I am aware that we have a kula devi (clan deity) and a graam devi (village deity).

      I have only ever visited my ancestral village once in my life but we still do invoke their names while doing caste specific rituals as well as during havans.

    3. /may be folk hinduism and brahminical hinduism were separate religious streams in the past, but centuries of coexistence has led to seepage of practices between them and made them a continuum/

      This is how I imagine things as well

      1. Very likely. Aryans came with some mythology, the other mythology was already there and probably, over time, it came to the synergy. As soon as we finish linguistics this will be our next discussion topic.

    4. > i get an impression that western writers make too much of big deal between the differences between brahminical hinduism and animistic hinduism. to me this appears somewhat misleading because i have not noticed such a sharp distinction between these two streams in my lived experience.

      Every village (in Eastern UP) has a बुढऊ बाबा, ढीह बाबा, काली माई क थान (i.e. lots of local deities who we offer हलवा-पूड़ी during a big function like marriage, child-birth, mundan etc. etc.). At the same time we do a रामचरितमानस पाठ at home and call a pundit for yagya (mostly सत्यनारायण पूजा). No sharp distinction at all between the two streams.

    5. \ i am not that familiar with South,\
      South ditto. Generally Hindus regardless of caste have a kula devata, who are caste blind. Actually many of them are goddesses. Late M.G.R used to regularly visit Mookambika in Kerala and popularized it.
      One more thing. Even temple worship , perhaps only a minority 10% have brahmin priests which explicitely follow Agamic prescriptions and many of them are historically important. In terms of numbers majority of btemples have non-brhamin priests to which brahmins also go.
      “Really existing Hindusim” is a far cry from the imaginings of western commentators

  10. “Apparently in 5000 years there has been no corruption in Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabharata, etc but bhaiya knows better here.

    Only problem we have is that our Scriptures are translated by Foreigners who mis-translate it to show us as Savages. Take Manusmriti and compare it with original Sanskrit/Hindi translation by Swamis and you’ll understand what happen.

    We have given foreigners/West right to create history of India & Hinduism and they’ve done spectacular work in turning us into Punching Bag with the help of Thapars, Habibs, Dravidian & Commies etc. Do you know what China does? It straight up rejects every translation done by Westerners which goes against them & uses Diplomatic channels to oust them from university. Only a Chinese National who is well versed in Chinese can research on China & its history. Same is done by French i.e they reject everything not French.

    What does India do? They fund Atrocity Literature in foreign Universities. They give access to Westerners to translate our scriptures. Full access.

    There are millions of documents lying in Government controlled Temples which are rotting away. Pujaris can’t do anything as if they try they’ll have to face corruption/theft charges. This is the state of India.”


    1. oh no, that’s better. it’s the most AWESOME story of perseverance in the face of dark dasyu malfeasance and oppression!

      we shall conquer all!

    2. Sooner or later, the artificial facts crash into realities. Some persistently were pushing that Yamnaya people (mainstream or reflux) were Aryans although they were R1b and R1a respectively almost without overlapping. Because the ‘experts’ must invent newer and newer constructions such as this mentioned in the article. I don’t know why these guys are so afraid to even mention ‘Old Europe’, which is missing from all equations. How come that ‘Slavics’ were I2a+R1a, although R1b were between them and outnumbered R1a (Davidski says) 10:1? Maybe we will know more as soon as Ugra comes back with elephants i.e. Aryans hidden homeland and, after that, Razib will be able to add his fifth arrow.

      Btw, amongst comments there was an interesting citation of Herodotus (we may need it for our future discussion) which confirms what I mentioned several times that Serbian speaking people were indigenous in today’s Greece.


      “…He (Croesus) found by inquiry that the chief peoples were the Lacedaemonians among those of Doric, and the Athenians among those of Ionic stock. These races, Ionian and Dorian, were the foremost in ancient time, the first a Pelasgian and the second a Hellenic people. The Pelasgian race has never yet left its home;…

      …It is a fact that at that time the Luwians lived there, the Illyrians probably lived nearby, the Hellins were not there. Most of the Athenians&Ionians were of Pelasgic origin….”

    3. So far neither Yamnaya Kurgans nor Yamnaya non-Kurgan burials have yielded R1a. I think it expanded from elsewhere. Sure, from a Yamnaya-like population autosomally, but geographically elsewhere.

      1. Maybe we should follow the elephants and find this secret place? It is amazing that R1b and R1a, although almost did not have contacts, had a common ‘Indo-European’ language. First of them took it to Europe and spread rapidly in its every corner, the others took it to SAsia spreading their knowledge in verses. Only, I wonder where Magyars (future Hungarians) were hiding and avoiding any contacts with IE language?

  11. 1. Progressive overload at big compounds. Find a good strength program and coach
    2. Eat 1.6g/kg of protein a day
    3. Stop eating refined carbs
    4. Eat monounsaturated fat for your fat
    5. Track calories, at least at first to see what you want to do to lose/gain/stay the same weight
    6. Sleep enough and go to your doctor regularly

    “The UK’s South Asian population, the largest minority ethnic group at 4% of the total population,1 are known to have an elevated risk of coronary artery disease—hence research on ethnic differences in disease has concentrated on this area.2 In contrast, South Asians have a lower incidence of cancer than the general population, with standardised incidence ratios (SIRs) of all malignant neoplasms reported as 68% lower in males and 48% lower in females,3 whilst standardised mortality ratios for all cancers have been reported between 58 in Indian men at their best to 85 at their worst in Bangladeshi men.4”

    We get less cancer but more heart disease. I’d rather have more of the latter. Mortality and morbidity improving interventions are better understood in the latter.

    Also take meds if you need them! 70% of blood cholesterol is genetic. Diet can only save you ap much. To find out if you meed statins, go to the doctor and figure it out.

    Also, Type II diabetes is quite genetic, even mroe so than type I diabetes, according to twin-twin concordance studies. Get your A1c and fasting sugars tested, especially as you age!

    Results The life expectancy of White Scottish males at birth was 74.7 years (95% CI 74.6 to 74.8), similar to Mixed Background (73.0; 70.2 to 75.8) and White Irish (75.0; 74.0 to 75.9), but shorter than Indian (80.9; 78.4 to 83.4), Pakistani (79.3; 76.9 to 81.6), Chinese (79.0; 76.5 to 81.5), Other White British (78.9; 78.6 to 79.2) and Other White (77.2; 76.4 to 78.1). The life expectancy of White Scottish females was 79.4 years (79.3 to 79.5), similar to mixed background (79.3; 76.6 to 82.0), but shorter than Pakistani (84.6; 82.0 to 87.3), Chinese (83.4; 81.1 to 85.7), Indian (83.3; 80.7 to 85.9), Other White British (82.6; 82.3 to 82.9), other White (82.0; 81.3 to 82.8) and White Irish (81; 80.2 to 81.8).

    We live longer too. We just die differently…


    1. Is that much protein even necessary. I have only ever lifted when I was 15.5 years old for just under half a year. I went from 135 lbs on day 1 to 180 lbs in about 5 months with maybe 80 grams on a good day.

      1. Literature shows it is optimal on average. Individuals vary.


        Citations in here for the 1.6g rule. Anecdotally, it matters less when you are in a caloric surplus than at maintenance, especially a heavy surplus.

        Key is to get stronger at big lifts.

        Also do your cardio. Cardio is important for heart health. It improves nitrous oxide levels and collaterals in body to allow load on heart to decrease. 30 min moderate intensity at least 5 days a week. Less if high intensity. Though more injury risk, interference with weight training, and conditioning needed for high intensity.

      2. I went from 135 lbs on day 1 to 180 lbs in about 5 months with maybe 80 grams on a good day.

        45 lbs in 5 months is probably mostly fat, even factoring in newbie gains

        but you are right.

        i don’t think you need that much protein its just ‘optimal’ but all kinds of stuff like consistency / progressive overload / rest / total caloric surplus or deficit are much more important

        1. I was talking about my bench press numbers. My overall weight was in the high 60s kg to 70 kg throughout the period.

  12. Scientific American carries an article saying that the farm protests in India, are the end of the “Green Revolution”


    My impression of the farm protests was that they are mostly from anti-BJP Punjab rather than national; my impression of the Green Revolution was that it was about avoiding famine.

    But this author says the Green Revolution was a State Department plot to prevent red revolution, and that the farm protests are about overcoming its negative legacy.

    He also says that Punjab is India’s breadbasket; if true that would perhaps justify the central role of Punjab in national protests. But I don’t know how true it is.

    I also note that the author is an anthropologist who teaches environmental studies.

    I would be interested in any informed commentary, both on what the author says, and on how his point of view may have ended up in Scientific American.

    1. > He also says that Punjab is India’s breadbasket; if true that would perhaps justify the central role of Punjab in national protests. But I don’t know how true it is.

      Not true, even if we were to remove the output from Punjab, India will still do OK. States like Rajasthan, MP have grown leaps and bounds in increasing their agricultural productivity. The best wheat is grown in MP and not Punjab. Andhra/Orissa/W.Bengal produce more and better rice.

    1. Lol. That guy spammed Razib’s Twitter basically begging for a response. Now he’s pretending as if he’s being hounded.

      But got to admire his hustle. He trolled low-IQ RW folks and got gullible wokes to monetize his Patreon in less than six months.

      Indian society is uniquely susceptible to psyops.

  13. About the Comment system of Brown Pundits. The last post from August had some suggestions, https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/08/05/a-better-commenting-system/

    There are few more worth considering in case Razib hasn’t decided yet.

    https://commento.io/ (supports markdown, moderator stick comments, downvotes and collapsible nested comments for easier following of threaded conversations).


    A blog article about this with a few more commenting systems listed as alternatives as well. https://nehalist.io/no-more-disqus-hello-commento/

    This needs to happen. Adding links, quoting people or specific instances, stressing tone and following nested comments gets needlessly cumbersome with this current comment system. It has gone beyond saturation point since scale of the traffic was too high. The current comment system is hot garbage really.

  14. I find it hilarious how over the span of a few decades the Left went from an ideology for the Working Class to an Upper Middle Class Liberal Echo-Chamber that virtue signals about minorities&women. Meanwhile, the Right went from being an obscure Savarna Circlejerk to an ideology that appeals to the low-caste masses. Its like poetry, it rhymes!

  15. BB Lal, the grand doyen of Indian archaeology has been awarded the Padma Vibhushan, India’s second highest civilian honour. He is now a nonagenarion. He retired from the ASI in 1972 as Director-General.

    When BB Lal was younger, he identified the PGW culture with that of the “invading Aryans”. Later on he switched his views after realising the confluences from archaeology, hydrology and textual tradition. He has since then identified the Rigvedic people with the Indus Valley civilization.


    BB Lal’s legacy is a profound challenge to AIT/AMT view within the Indian historical tradition shaped by colonial inheritances. His body of work, driven by empirical evidence has greatly shaped the counter view of Indigenous Aryans. Some of his consistently held views have been validated by newer archaeological sites.

  16. https://twitter.com/UNCTAD/status/1353630118988689408

    China and India were two major outliers in a gloomy year for foreign direct investment.

    The two nations recorded positive #FDI growth in 2020 even as global levels sunk to lows not seen since the 1990s

    Not an economics expert, but does this have something to do with GST forcing companies to manufacture here?

  17. Ongoing Islamic insurgency in three major parts of Africa has thrown millions of people into misery , killed thosands, made millions refugees , and set back developement of black Africa by many decades. they are

    In southern Africa , Islamic State of Mozambique also known as Al-shabab

    In East Africa Al-shabab which ahs destabilised countriees such as Somalia, Uganda, Kenya

    In West Africa, Islamic State in West Africa , Jamā’at Ahl as-Sunnah lid-Da’wah wa’l-Jihād aka Boko Haram

    1. If you had not left India, you would have become a batting coach like Rathour? Your parents don’t like Virat Kohli? Indian bosses are like Rishabh Pant? So many variables and so little relational data….:-)

      1. Good one, Ugra.
        Vikram – I think you are alluding to the fact that Rathore (had to) gave credit to Virat for the Rishabh Pant batting order change?
        BTW – I always thought you were based in India (along with Prats and just one or two others)

          1. Manufacturing/service/retail management is different from sports management. Thats why you have separate courses even at the undergrad level like sports psychology, management, athlete nutrition etc. Like it or not, Kohli is Indian cricket’s biggest batting asset now and Rathour is probably managing that asset as best as he can.

            Atheletes and sportsmen are encouraged to develop their egos in subtle ways – it directly helps their performance and sustaining it. In team games, managing this is part of a coach’s job. The Hofstede model is for people working in cubicles not for the sports field.

          2. My parents were vehemently against it.

            Hmm…..in my case, my parents made suggestive noises about me moving back to India, which was a (but only one) factor in my decision to do so. I thought the impetus to push kids to go (and remain) overseas had steadily decreased since the turn of the century, but I could be wrong.

            What most Indian parents (at least of my parents’ generation) wanted was for kids to have a high-status and high-paying job but be very Indian in all other respects (arranged marriage, continue traditions, etc.) Since they were used to the dysfunctional aspects of Indian society and infrastructure, they didn’t really care about stuff like broken roads, abysmal traffic, pollution, bad electricity, etc. (and the bossy office culture you are talking about), and were cool with having lots of cheap domestic help to avoid annoying chores. And all of this was possible only after the IT boom and liberalization of the 90s and early 2000s.

          3. Numinous, that is an interesting take. For my parents, the push to go abroad was never about material advancement. My dad, unfortunately, had his PhD fellowship at UNC cancelled due to US sanctions after the emergency. Despite doing well materially in Mumbai, he could never get over what he thought he could have become intellectually in the US.

            When I got equipped for academic jobs in the US, I realized that US academia was not what I wanted to do at this stage of my life. My sister, who was an academic star in school, lives a mundane suburban life in a small Midwest town, where she works as a back end system programmer. Neither of us did particularly well despite coming here. OTOH, our spouses, whose parents were aghast at their decision to live abroad, are doing brilliantly here.

    2. I think office culture varies depending on who runs the company (or department). Even after returning to India (I got a PhD in the States and worked in the tech industry there a few years), I have been working at a place that’s staffed (and run) by people who studied/worked abroad, so the culture feels quite “American”. For example, we address each other by our first names; i.e., even the new hire calls the director by his/her first name.

      At the same time, I see other departments even in the MNC I work for, and employees call even their immediate bosses “Sir”, often don’t look them in the eye and consider pleasing their bosses the be-all and end-all of their jobs. In Indian (i.e., no MNC ties) companies, the hierarchy definitely predominates and boss is always right.

      1. “I think office culture varies depending on who runs the company (or department).“

        This is true but I have seen a gradual trend towards more egalitarian practices.

        I went to a college that was pretty American-influenced due to historic ties. Everyone called each other by their first names.

        My first job was at a startup where the CEO had studied in UK/US. So the culture was similar. But I found folks from some other colleges initially finding it difficult to adjust to it – calling seniors ‘sir’ or ‘bhaiyya’.
        The HR had to hammer it out.

        I’ve seen this has become less of an issue among freshers in the years since.

        On the other hand, when I went for meetings with folks in banks/insurance companies, the sense of hierarchy was pretty evident. A few times, I addressed some very senior folks by their first names and could see the discomfort among their underlings. Had to change that approach for better sales results. A few ‘sirs’ grease the wheels to your deals.

        That said, senior folks at established companies also try to be more collegial these days and insist they be addressed by their first names.

        1. Thanks Prats and Numinous, this is what I had surmised and hoped for. It is good to get anecdotal confirmation. In time, someone will do a more extensive study to point out the differences between traditional and more modern Indian firms, and the diffusion of practices between them.

  18. [48] Domestic Violence NFHS-3, Government of India, pp. 498–500, Table 15.1

    In 2005–2006 nationwide family and health survey report, the lowest domestic violence prevalence rate was reported by women of Jainism religion (12.6% of women), the highest by women of Buddhist religion (40.9%).[48] The same report also states that the frequency and intensity of domestic violence experienced was lowest among Jain women who had ever been victims of such violence, while the frequency and intensity of domestic violence was highest among Muslim women who had been victims.[48]

    Halal Haleem Owaisi

  19. i edited the piece that said ‘dark-skinned animists’ to mahogany-skinned polytheists

    i still don’t believe either are offensive, but talking to various people and my wife it seems the consensus is no one could understand that i don’t believe either are offensive.

    the *animist* i kind of get. honestly the dark-skinned thing annoys me having to change it, since i originally said black-skinned. south asians are dark, and south indians the darkest. there’s no shame in that. *sigh* similarly, kashmiris are proud of being ‘white’. they shouldn’t be. there’s no pride in color. pathetic

    1. I agree with your comment about “animism” and appreciate your thoughtful change. The connotations are just not great because of how, as you pointed out, people tend to view high vs. low religion. The skin color comments are also spot on. As sad as it is, those changes likely are beneficial as well. A common refrain I also here is along the lines of: “It is not just about skin color. It is also about features. The ‘sharp’ features of NW people are different and give them their handsome looks compared to the ugly ‘soft’ features of the Gangus and S Indians.” Never mind that there is tremendous overlap with all of this and groups don’t look that phenotypically discernable on an individual basis and group pics show slight feature variation on average, not enough to get as excited about as these people do, but the ‘sharp features’ aka more euro appearance stuff is dumb in and of itself.

      Pride in the “sharp features” BS these people peddle in a nut shell: Their major claim to fame is essentially accidently being more related to the groups who have dominated the world stage for the past few hundred years. They have only started this btw when it was shown that they lack and true “foreign” ancestry in substantial amount, just the same ancestral components in different proportions.Taking pride in one’s race as a primary source of self esteem like Nazis is stupid. Doing it by proxy like many NW groups do is just priceless, especially when pretty much equal domination by outside groups and poverty, when semantics are ignored, hath befallen the entirety of the subcontinent throughout modern history.

      Looking more West Eurasian doesn’t increase one’s worth as a human. People all over S Asia need to stop pedestalizing those looks. What is funny is that when they come to America, they are mostly all just seen as brown, except for a liminal minority. Even worse, some are seen as “Arab,” an unfortunate group to be characterized under in areas where real islamophobia does exist. In places like Northern Europe, my lighter skinned Indian friends would be treated worse than a medium-brown like me who looks more “conventionally Indian.” Regardless, discrimination is of course wrong. But the hypocrisy, internal inconsistencies, and categorical wrongness of the ethnic supremacism, based on a a minority extra share of ancestry from a group thousands of years ago, is tiring and laughable at best and simply desperate, pathetic, and when manifested improperly, such as the “aryanzing” commanders of 1971, genocidal at its worst.

    1. It’s not about farmers anymore, it is about Sikhs. This was their “Qila Fateh” for e.g.: https://www.instagram.com/p/CKgFqMxhxxT/

      BJP runs the most effeminate government. I am surprised at the Haryana Hindus supporting the protests. Guess they didn’t have to face the brunt of Khalistanis as much as the Hindus that iived in districts like Tarn-Taran.

      Yogendra Yadav, Tikait and other commies should be thrown in jail.

    2. It’s not about farmers anymore, it is about Sikhs. This was their “Qila Fateh”.

      BJP runs the most effeminate government. I am surprised at the Haryana Hindus supporting the protests. Guess they didn’t have to face the brunt of Khalistanis as much as the Hindus that iived in districts like Tarn-Taran.

      Yogendra Yadav, Tikait and other commies should be thrown in jail.

  20. People have shamed me repeatedly on here for what I post about the pest that is the Khalistan movement and Jatt sikh supremacist behavior. They will soon see more and more about what I am talking about. Their master plan is unfolding.

    Modi you now how a chance to destroy this “protest.” Don’t be a fool. Don’t even let half socialist RSS get in the way. Disperse these violent rioters.

    1. People try to gaslight you into beliving modi isn’t a cuck as well. Even if all the countervailing evidence shows the contrary. Hopefully today’s events have cleared this up for people on the fence.

      The storming of the red fort and the replacement of the Indian flag with sikh religious ones is an attack on India.

      1. …….and the replacement of the Indian flag with sikh religious ones is an attack on India.

        Cool down man, nothing was replaced. They didn’t access the flagstaff. The instagram photo you posted below shows that. You are more emotional than some Indians! 🙂 We haven’t climbed that ladder yet.

        1. Precisely, one can argue this hot headed-ness was the original reason y the Hindu right wasn’t in power for so many years.

          Keep calm , and trust Mota Bhai 😛

  21. good biography of M.N.Roy. Roy was a great revolutionary during 1920s-30s when revolution , mostly of communist variety was in the air. Roy rubbed shoulders with all the big names of Russian revolution of 1917. He also founded Mexican Communist party Eventually, he broke with communists and became Radical humanist and founded a political movement, for which he was shunned by his former comrades who were Stalinists
    An excellent documentary about him by a Mexican

    In 4 Parts “A Comitern brahmin”


    1. https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/hruueh2knueI3qMIhE0hUN/A-sartorial-theory-of-politics.html

      “The story has been recounted by the film-maker J.B.H. Wadia in his memoirs about Roy. Roy was staying at the Wadia residence in what was then Bombay. One morning, in 1938, his hosts were taken aback to see Roy come to the breakfast table in a spotless white dhoti-kurta worn in the Bengali style. He usually preferred to wear suits or a bush shirt and trousers.

      Noticing the puzzled look he received that morning, Roy explained to Wadia: “I am going to pay my respects to Veer Savarkar and I thought I should do it in the fittest manner possible. I am sure the old man will be pleased to see me dressed as a full-fledged Indian rather than as Westernized revolutionary.” Wadia adds: “I have a sneaking suspicion that when Roy was in Veer Savarkar’s presence he must have touched his feet in the traditional Indian way.””

  22. Pak ‘liberals’ hailing Ambedkar


    “by all measures, Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar was an astoundingly accomplished man, jurist and scholar. India’s constitution is a testament to him & others in the Drafting Committee. but fast forward and see who are the rulers now. #BRAmbedkarLegacy #Modi #AmitShah
    India then and NOW”

    If only he knew , Ambedkar views on Pakistan.

  23. Lot of less-Hindu ethnicities chatter on twitter coming out in support of farmers.

    Including especially some Mallus who think they are Punjabis. This is what you get, when you have far too many Punjabis acting in your movies

  24. Do folks here reckon today’s events in Delhi will change something?
    Modi’s approach or general support for farmers.

    I haven’t visited Twitter today but comments here make it seem as if liberals have dug their heels in on the side of the farmers.

    Is that really the case? Have there been any notable defections?

    1. Nothing will change , apart from Modi feeling that its not worth his time burning his political capital on farm laws. Might just ‘nudge’ the SC to strike down the laws, and won’t appeal.

      He has better things to focus on like roll out of the vaccination drive and keeping the infections under control , which will gain him substantial political capital, all this rather than waste time and effort on a 2 and half state farm issue.

      1. Agree with Saurav here. The farmers cant even develop a reasonable negotiation strategy, just sticking to their maximalist stance. The events today will play into the BJP’s hands. Opposition in India is really in shambles.

        1. There is a contradiction here. You say you agree with Saurav but the protestors played into BJP’s hands? What? Saurav is saying the laws will me strike down and Modi won’t protest. The rioters won. They got their objective. How the heck did BJP having anything play into their hands in the immediate or even medium term. Maybe long-term opposition image will be marred looking at 2024. Are you referring to that?

          1. The laws will be back in form or another. But this will help the BJP in Punjab elections. Till now the non-Jat Sikhs were not fully on board with the BJP, but I doubt most Khatri and Mazhabi Sikhs will vote for the Akalis or Congress, now that they see the Jat Sikh attitude towards the flag.

          2. BJP is a non entity in Punjab. Most folks who don’t like Jatt Sikhs like Khatris etc vote Congress. Plus there is AAP as well now.

        2. Moral victories are not real victories. The BJP might have wrested some moral capital, due to these riots, but what exactly is it going to do with it? Send army against the farmers? Nothing.

          There is absolutely no tactics left which BJP hasn’t used to break the protest , including underhand deals and threats. It would be better to cuts its loses (like it did with NRC-CAA) rather than waste time on it. If BJP wants its pound of flesh it can break Food Corporation of India and allow the states to procure for MSP. In my view, it will drive the point better to Punjab-Haryana farmers then all this ‘reform’ business.

          1. can you explain your second paragraph about food corporation? is that basically leaving only haryana and Punjab with MSP system since most will go to corporate?

          2. do you think this template of rioting will be used again and again? I think so. This is a big fail for BJP. They need better riot control.

          3. FCI procures food for India’s own subsidized right to food , (the whole 2 Rs Rice etc) programs. This food is then transported to various states again by FCI where states deliver it to the folks. Most of the procurement is done from Punjab-Haryana (because of better mandis and MSP) rather than the states themselves. So FCI first procures at MSP (from Punjab-Haryana ) and sells at a loss (to Jharkhand-Chhattisgarh etc) , plus add the transportation and storage costs to it.

            Breaking down FCI would mean states procure their own food through their own states Corporation, and that way they will either import (if they dont grow ), or their poor folks will go hungry ( political sucidial) rather than depend on the centre’s dole. That would also mean the Punjab , Haryana states would only procure for MSP (or not) whatever they need only for their own states. It will automatically lower both procurement and push down prices since their are more buyers than sellers..

            Hope it helped.

          4. There are a lot of on the fence voters in Punjab and Haryana, and moral victories will help with them. No Muslims there, so the BJP needs a contrast in terms of the nationalist narrative. Jat Sikhs have provided that.

            In the grand scheme, Jat Sikhs have turned out to be similar to Ashrafi Muslims, not very entrepreneurial and desperate to somehow control the government under which they live.

          5. On the contrary, BJP might just loose Haryana, and not complete its term, if it still sticks to farm bills. The CM of the state is virtual prisoner in his own state.

            There are communities ( Ashrafi Muslims) and there are communities (Jat Sikhs) . No amount of anti-national accusation will stick to Jatt sikhs. Unless, you want to go full hog and open the Pandora box of labeling the entire community as Khalistani. Something tells me neither side wants that.

          6. While breaking FCI would make sense economically and from a federal perspective, I am pretty sure they will not find some other excuse to oppose that decision as well. I mean in current iteration, the centre was ready to guarantee procurement at MSP. But the very thought of getting off the current gravy train with an off ramp was enough to trigger this reaction. An explicit cut off of federal subsidies would generate even more of a vitriol.
            It is understandable NW farmers wanting to keep their current cushy arrangements. MH, KA, UP farmers want government intervention in sugar to continue as well. Same goes for rice growing states as well. But the behavior of NW farmers in this impasse is beyond reasonable. I had a feeling they get a bad rep from media and white collar folks from North but after seeing this, I feel the reputation is well earned.
            Question is what are other ethnicities in North and esp. Delhi going to do about it? Jatts seem to have a contempt for other non-martial castes. Time for others to also get assertive and confident in a positive way. Focus on physical well being etc. Not riots and such shit.

  25. India needs good photo ID system to make some mass arrests. Just despicable behavior. Prison time has to be served by these anti-national agitators. Using swords at police man? Modi needs to stop being a pacifist. These greedy, violent zamindars need to be confronted. The leftists and radical haleems will protest. But it doesn’t matter. Truth is truth. Fairness is fairness. Justice is justice.

    This is a good time to confiscate land too. That should be part of punishment. Those caught have to pay a fine for the damages. If they cannot, land is taken as collateral. I am not into government taking away land. But people have to pay for damages.

  26. https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/l5igbo/yes_the_khalistani_flag_was_actually_raised_at/

    This is treason. Death penalty now.

    Once again. I have warned everyone here several times about Khalistanis. People acted like they are some foreign tooth less entity. Khalistan is just a formalization of Jatt sikh ethnoreligiouscentrism. That is all it is. It blooms whenever their rent seeking interests are threatened. Not all in the community are like this. But a critical mass are. It has to be addressed in India. People don’t see justhow traitorous the likes of Navjot Singh Sidhu are.

  27. “Choosing Republic Day for showdown, the venue as Red Fort, hoisting non-tiranga flags, brandishing swords, hurtling tractors towards crowds/policemen, going on a rampage.

    All this would be impossible without a prior planning.

    And those who planned for it, gathered the resources needed, and ensured its execution, they are not any different than a Hafiz Saeed or Masood Azhar executing 26/11.”


  28. RE: Were ancestors of these guys real Aryans? What we know about their descendants? Have we (SAsians) adopted any features from our common ancestors? Is this part of our history, too?

    From new Jonathan Lee’s Vice book (489 pages): “Bud of Evil” (21. 01. 2021) – excerpt
    (… contemplation of another moustacheless serbophob)

    Dietrich Hefler:

    If you tell me where the beginning of the infinite is, I will agree … if something is infinite then it has no beginning or end … we have enclosed ourselves in earthly space, and the stellar universe is infinite … One of the most brilliant European minds was Nicholas Tesla … he realized that you cannot limit space and that the power of the infinite is tame if you overcome your own bodily and material requirements …His misfortune was his nationality … his Orthodox cross was is also his personal … If he was a poor European Jew, he would probably reach borders of the unserved … instead, he was the son of a poor Serbian priest …

    Dietrich Hefler talked further …
    – Nikola Tesla was a Serb; I must admit that I am not very fond of Serbs.
    Very strange people: you can’t shape them into any world order. Although they know they are losing, without blood they will not give up any of their territory. During the Second World War, they suffered as much as the Jews … One German soldier was killed 100 Serbs, Hungarian penal units slaughtered them and threw them under the Novi Sad Danube bridge.

    Bulgarians invaded their villages and killed women, children and the elderly in the most cruel way. The Croatian Ustasha army made a special knife for the slaughter of Serbs, and Catholic priests went with it, saying: “You slaughter, and we will save you from sin. ”

    The Turks took their male children. They were baptized by both Muslims and Catholics.
    During the First World War, the French sent them cannons, but the wrong grenades to the longer they defended and the more they perished; they sent them flour for the army mixed with sawdust, in order to charge them shoelaces at the end of the war. They were bombed by German planes in 1941, and by the Allies in 1944. They said “no” to the Turks, “no” To the Austro-Hungarians, they rose up against the German occupation, and against Stalin in 1948. They never wanted an alliance, a pact, or outside their borders.

    In Kosovo, they stood against the Ottoman Empire to protect Europe. They rose up against Austro-Hungary to protect their faith. There is no kingdom or force against it which did not rise.
    They killed Emperor Murat and Crown Prince Ferdinand, and they are their own king beheaded when he wanted to subjugate them with Austro-Hungarian policy.

    It is also interesting that they are in moments of all their bloody histories suffering always remained without its allies. They won on the battlefield, they lost at the negotiating table … they were never terrorists or anti-Semites, they love everyone equally … even ants don’t step on them because they are God’s creatures – he added disgustingly and with contempt.

    Dave watched Dietrich Heffler in silence, listening to the fierceness of the obvious disobedience of a nation …
    Hefler took a sip of tea and continued …

    – I must admit that I really did not understand what the Serbs were defending and why they fought always returned to the same area around Kosovo … you know, Kosovo is a Serbian shrine, there the fiercest Serbian wars have always been fought, the greatest blows were suffered in that very place … my colleagues will agree that Serbian generals and military leaders were the best soldiers and strategists … and the motive of their defence and sacrifice was “For the cross of honour and golden freedom” …

  29. RE (2/2):

    I don’t know what today’s politicians will do with them; if I live, it will be interesting to watch … Until now, only Europeans bathed in Serbian blood, and now the Americans have been pressuring various sanctions for ten years in order to weaken them.

    They have not yet bled the hands of their soldiers, they have left it to their Croatian-Muslim-Albanian servants. The result is more than miserable: Serbs have become a kind of American nightmare. America thought that it would teach Serbs overnight minds … have not learned from the European experience. We have been fighting against them for centuries … – he shook his head – these people are like a phoenix: they always rise from the bloody ashes.
    I must add that in that conflict I have a bit of fan passion … it’s simple irritating to so few people, and there are only so many of them that you can put them in several larger overseas ships and move forever from the Balkans, succeeds to resist all world conquerors …

    Dave put down an empty cup made of the finest Austrian porcelain … He was especially intrigued by the fact that the Serbs defended themselves so much from the Austro-Hungarians, the Russians and the Germans and the Ottoman Empire, well, now from the Americans …

    – Professor Hefler! … What do you know about Serbs?
    – I know I don’t like them – he was almost decisive. – If there were no Serbs in the world the order would be much different today. They live in the lobby of Europe … neither
    Because of them, Europe can go to Asia, and America can go to Europe again because of them …
    they are the guards of the door of a four-room house, in front of that door the whole world was constantly rattling with weapons and money … they do not react to either.
    No secret password found yet; I am afraid that the Americans will also lose patience … Whatever is offered to the Serbs, they refuse it …

    – And the profile of the people? Dave asked …
    -They are absolutely unpredictable: sometimes they do perfectly what you ask of them, and then, as their proverb says, “turn the party upside down” …

    They bled a lot for the sake of Europe, and no one has cried over the Serbian fate yet. The world somehow enthusiastically accepted their satanization, and no one he did not think that they were simply defending themselves. You think that the Serbs were hacked by them the world does not like. Believe me, not in the least. They almost didn’t try to dissuade the world …

    The Serbs consider everything that happens to them to be a kind of attack by the Antichrist Orthodoxy, and in that fight their only ally is God … Under such pressures what they suffer, believe me, many would give it up … It seems that they are ready to endure to the end. “

  30. The reform laws are intangibles. It is easier to protest against a dam or a nuclear plant. It is also easier to get sympathy while protesting against high electricity bills or toll booths. The farm protests are slipping – they needed to get purchase with the average guy – hence co-opting the Jat club and Khalistani club provided the much needed numbers.

    It’s quite clear that the organizers know this – and yet they have washed their hands off some elements – like Deep Sidhu and no sympathy for the guy who overturned his tractor (NRI from Canada). Once the police start acting on the FIRs against a section, lawyers like Bhushan and YoYa will not support them. The movement will splinter. Entropy will play it’s part.

  31. effect started… two groups pull out of the farmers agitation. the gujju duopoly might pull it off eventually.
    one of the ironies is that the delhi police full of haryanvi jats fought with punjabi sikh jats.!!!

    1. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_ZR4zg6zA&t=1s

      Atrocity Score is officially 2-2

      1984 and Australia incident for Haryanvi Hindu Jats. Khalistan movenent 1980s killings and republic day for Sikh Punjabi Jatts.

      Oh I forget. India is at a 0 for lettinf any of this BS happen. Actually the Australia thing was pretty damn funny.

  32. Due to recent events, the schism between Hindus and Sikhs is finally getting clear in many people from the Hindu right. Hindus and the Hindu right have gone out of their way to woo the Sikhs and keep them in the Dharmic fold. Finally however the repeated insults, jibes and aggression from Sikhs is having an effect.
    This clear schism will be very harmful to Sikhism in the long run. Hindus will progressively stop patronizing Gurudwaras and the respect they have had for the Sikh Gurus and the Sikh faith will dissipate. Historically, it was from Hinduism that Sikhism got it followers. Only minuscule numbers of Muslims ever became Sikhs.
    Punjabi dalits are also moving away from mainstream Sikhism with the rise of Ravidasia sect.
    The fate of Sikhism in India looks dire. It will continue only as a Punjabi Jatt cult locked in fetishizing its 17th century history.

  33. “On the contrary, BJP might just loose Haryana, and not complete its term, if it still sticks to farm bills.”

    LOL. If the BJP were to lose Haryana over the farm bills, it would already have lost Haryana.

    Firstly, Haryana Jaats are not as beholden to agriculture as Punjabi Jatts. A lot of them do see the benefit of these laws since they are not blinded by hatred for and suspicion of Hindus/BJP/India.

    If Haryana Jaats were really pissed over the farm bills, they would have brought Delhi to such a standstill as Punjabi Jatts can only dream about.

    1. The BJP is not an organic Haryanvi party, nor is it the party of Haryanvi Jaats. Its whole USP in Haryana is that it is NOT the Haryanvi Jats party (which all the other parties are), but the party of the ‘others’. But right now its in a coalition with the a Jat party, on whose support its ruling the state

      So every day the farm bills are debated, there is every chance JJP might withdraw its support from the govt , or risk losing its jat vote.


      And yeah, i think we are better than posting random youtube videos of some Haryanvi.

      1. Most Jaats may not vote for BJP in state elections but they sure as hell do in national ones. Hindu Jaats want their party aligned with the BJP and be in power in Haryana. My point is Hindutva has enough support amongst Haryana Jaats that the BJP govt. won’t fall.

        That Indian Express article is 3 months old BTW. Do you think its still relevant?

        Anyway no point arguing. We will see who’s correct.

    1. Quote from the article: How could they love me, a brown-skinned woman, if they believed lies that placed whiteness and the power of empire above all else?

      The phrase “lies that placed whiteness…..” is doing a tremendous amount of work here, but is asserted blithely without any sign of (healthy) skepticism, even when she perceives a contradiction between it and her personal experiences (aka “her lying eyes”).

      Have people completely lost the ability for critical thinking? Or is it that the sizeable fraction of our population that never had critical thinking ability in the first place is now awash with social media inanities and believes that it has “seen the light”?

      1. I think what caught me was the sheer narcissism in the fixation about what they might really believe, and the opportunity it presented for her to be at the center of a story. I can only assume, given the other details she’s shared, that they’ve treated her with kindness otherwise, and yet she’d rather some meta-narrative of victimhood intrude on these genuine relationships, the actual substance of her life.

        1. white supremacism remains a problem in the US, and there is nothing wrong in confronting it head-on. the problem with the piece is that the author writes from an imaginary position of victimhood that simply doesn’t exists. she brackets browns with blacks, but there is world of difference between the american experience of blacks and desis.

          the article would have sounded more credible had she written it with a neutral observer’s perspective, or even with a snobbish perspective. like how she, as a well-read and well-traveled cosmopolitan woman, understands the world much better than her provincial in-laws who have never travelled beyond the range of one-tankful of gas in their pickup trucks.

    2. Indian-Americans are digging their own graves through their wokeness. I don’t think anyone will come to their rescue when the reckoning comes.

      I am a bit concerned because my brother is moving there for grad school.

  34. Exclusively (Google translated) – After 21 years since the end of the war in Kosovo, the Americans have acknowledged that their soldiers took part in the land invasion of Serbia and that they even died in those battles. The suspicion that the Serbs did not defend and fight “chest to chest” only against the Albanian terrorists from the criminal KLA, but also the then most powerful military force on the planet, was removed by the US Ambassador to Pristina, Filip Kosnet.

    On the other hand, Serbian General Vladimir Lazarevic claims that about 500 American soldiers took part in Kosovo, and that half of them “returned in boxes” to the United States. The action on Pastrik is planned in the Penatgon.

    – For that purpose, they brought to Albania about 400-500 American soldiers, members of the so-called Atlantic Brigades. Previously, before leaving, they had a review in Washington. Their task was to take part in the final attacks through Pastrik towards Prizren. Quite a few of them were killed in ground battles. Half of them did not return. They were returned to America in boxes, and for that purpose there were a lot of special flights at that time – says Lazarević.

    1. The comments are so funny. Delusions runs strong among NRI Khalistanis and those Pak Punjabis who wish for India to break apart.

      If anything, with their birth rate and out migration, this riot is similar to the one done by largely White Americand in DC. A lot of it is about demographic insecurity. Punjan will he majority Hindu in a few decades. Khalistanis are almost out of time. Better to go carve a Jat Sikh Ethnosupremacist Theocracy in Canada.

  35. Bharat’s Biotech Covaxin seems to be a real candidate for a “mass vaccination” global drive. Its effectivity might in the end turn out to be lower but its low costs enables an appeal to many South American, African and Asian countries. People have started noticing it.

    NYTimes which is, even at the best of times, eminently Indophobic – has produced a technical article on it.


    If this works out well, then Indian regulatory authorities and the political establishment must be appreciated for their foresight to back two horses in the race.

    1. “BJP may have underestimated Tikait due to its belief that it has destroyed agrarian and Jat politics in West UP”

      Pure ethno riot. Nothing else. This is a Jat rentier class uprising, with special Sikh emphasis. It has to be crushed brutally.

  36. The farmers movement has gone from being a somewhat genuine people’s movement to a proper political movement. This is a good progression from the viewpoint of the government – as merging political leadership removes any “civil society” veil that was being posed for the narrative.

    It is now a proper Jat agitation or at least threatening to become one. The crowds have gone from several thousands to a couple of thousand on the border. I hope some Jat voices can properly start adding “reservation requirements” to the pot. Then it shall become the personality it always was.

  37. Gandhi statue in Davis, CA vandalized and toppled.

    Very likely that this was done by extremist Sikhs who also led protests against it when it was first installed. Extremist Sikhs will go to any lengths to denigrate icons of India / Hindus. The hatred is just so open now (and protected by the woketopia that is now the US).

    Also, those that oppose Sikh extremism should stop using Khalistani as a descriptor for these people. One it may not be fully accurate as many are not actively advocating for Khalistan (mostly on pragmatic grounds) and two (and more importantly) it is a label that is easy to dismiss (“I don’t support Khalistan”) and thus very easy to dismiss the entire argument.
    Extremist Sikhs and there are a lot of them, are no different from other extremists and should be called out as that – there is also this added benefit of this terminology being more relatable to and understandable by Westerners/non-Indians.

    So I will take my own advice and say: Hard-line religious Sikh extremists likely behind the toppling of Gandhi statue in Davis, CA.

    Guys, let’s start using religious extremist Sikhs instead of Khalistani. Don’t give them an easy cop out

    1. Very true. It is radical Sikh Terrorism. There is ethnic element of mostly Jats as well. Mostly radical Jat Sikh Terrorism.

      The Radical Birdari Gang in general has caused the most violence, death, and destruction in S Asia, since independence. From majority of partition violence to majority in the army thay caused 1971 to violence and agitations occuring since, it is that deeply tribal culture that needs to be analyzed further.

      1. It seems that there’s a Sikh vs Gujju underlying battle that’s going to go down in the diaspora. Us Gangetic folks are too few in number there to matter. South Indians will be split down the middle. Most diaspora S Indians seem either too woke or too right.

        “it is that deeply tribal culture that needs to be analyzed further.”

        Gujjus should use their wealth to Soros this agenda in academia. No other way they can compete.

        1. Battle of Less Hindu vs More Hindu ethnicities.

          “Most diaspora S Indians seem either too woke or too right.”

          I would say more woke than right. And the S-Indian right is mostly vanilla right, not cultural one.

          1. It seems like you are pretty pessimistic about Modi and Shah duo being able to get anything done.

          2. I am not pessimistic just realistic.

            The way to reform Agriculture is to not reform it. Reform other parts of ur economy, to slowly weed people out of agriculture. That would be a fruitful use of the political capital of Modi. After all u cant have reforms if the recipient doesn’t want it

            This view also run s though my Less/More Hindu ethnicity arguments too 😛

          3. “Realistic” sounds more like just defending th status quo which will leave us far behind China and even Bangladesh down surging ahead.

            Also, most of the people want change. A minority don’t and you basically want to reward the extortionists, thereby indirectly giving tacit approval to the same behavior in the future.

            Government needs to push forward. The farmers aren’t going to do much else.

        2. Gujus have too much pragmatism in a bad way. They don’t want to spend their money like that. They need a billionaire typr like Sheldon Adelson for Jews who will do the bulk and then some may follow. Patels might be the exception and really push via BAPS ecosystem they have.

      2. We should use Sikh extremism – the burden of proof for terrorism is high and again leads to dismissal of the whole argument. Don’t allow that.
        Indian nationalists’ overuse of the Khalistan term has led to it (the term) becoming somewhat meaningless and a way for their opponents to delegitimize real grievances and issues with Sikh extremism.
        We have seen Sikh extremism abroad (and here there is a big overlap with Khalistan supporters) but also in India (where the overlap is small – most Indian Sikhs, even the extreme right wing are not Khalistanis because it is not practical). Sikh extremism in India is a problem and so is their ethnosupremacism. We have seen this most recently during the farmer protests – Sikhs wearing 17th century garb on horses and with swords – need to be called out as backward, medieval, religious nuts. Those denigrating Hindus/Hindu women and constantly tooting their own horn need to be called out for the ethnosupremacists they are. Running around with swords in the national capital needs to be called out for the backward extremism that it is. Hoisting your religious flag on a national monument is religiosupremacism and needs to be called out for what it is. Just because they are not Khalistanis (for whatever reason) doesn’t mean they are normal or their behavior acceptable.
        Let’s call it out Sikh extremism but with nuance. Using a broad brush slur for everything gives an easy out to your opponents.

  38. https://twitter.com/tunkuv/status/1355164794177859584

    “The problem with the proposed farm reforms in India isn’t that Indian agriculture doesn’t need reform. On the contrary, it cries out for change. The problem is that reform is being put forward by a government whose moral capital is at zero (or worse) & whose PM scorns democracy,”

    Indian free market reformers

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