93 Replies to “Open Thread – 2/13/2021 – Brown Pundits”

  1. the race for reservation in karnataka amongst ” forward” lingayath community is interesting. the other major backward community- kurubas are seeking a even more secure reservation.

    1. Even if passed it will be struck down in SC. I don’t think the community has enough clout to pull this off.
      As more people are relying on urban jobs, the gap between lingayaths and other lower castes is closing. This coupled with political jostling among all the caste groups is primary driver for this demand. The theological arguments around separate religion are not the primary drivers.
      I believe there is a similar dynamic with similar demands from Jats, Patels, Marathas etc. The 2019 enactment of job reservation for upper castes with low income reduces the arguments against such demands from other groups.

    1. Poor getting richer -> Brilliant.
      Rich getting richer -> Expected.
      Poor getting poorer -> Bad.
      Rich getting poorer -> Catastrophe.

      If the smartest and most motivated in a population are becoming poorer, society isnt functioning very well. America’s rich getting richer during a pandemic means that it is a society where the talented and driven succeed in even the most trying times.

      1. there is an asset appreciation due to pandemic stimulus / way it was allocated

        Asset appreciation benefits ppl with assets

        the real economy has not recovered

  2. The Coming Indian Bitcoin Ban

    Were I to decide between who to believe, Chidambaram or Modi in regard to ten thousand issued economic statements, I would believe Chidambaram ten thousand times to none over Modi. Recall that on my own news site, more than five years ago, I outed Modi as a liar for promoting a gold “monetization” plan that was, in reality, a gold demonetization plan and a State and Reserve Bank of India effort to confiscate physical gold holdings from Indian citizens and in turn, give them worthless paper with a meager annual interest rate that physical gold’s annual price appreciation was sure to far outpace. I also pointed out the comical nature of all the mass media outlets reference to Modi’s gold demonetization scheme as a gold “monetization” scheme, revealing the inseparable ties between mass media journalism and Statism.

    In conclusion, the reason why India’s upcoming bitcoin ban and cryptocurrency ban is troubling is that India has always been a testing ground for global initiatives, including even their rapid conversion from a nation that Mastercard called among the worst prepared for a digital economy into one, less than a year later, in which 95% of all 1.1 billion (at the time) Indian citizens possessed a unique digital identification number based upon fingerprints and retinal scans that could be used for transactions in a digital economy.


  3. Pravin Sawhney
    Question many asking me: Why has India’s agreed to vacate Kailash range which falls on our side of LAC? Because gov wants to go back to its chosen enemy – Pakistan ASAP. China, more powerful, was consuming too much attention & was distracting Bakhts from core mission!

  4. A 21-year old ‘activist’ Disha Ravi has been arrested by the government for making some edits to the toolkit.

    I find this a bit of an OTT reaction from the government even if the intention was to deter others. Put in custody for a couple of days, shame on social media and that should’ve sufficed.

    More generally, I feel bad for people like her. She is just an idealistic youngster who’s got involved with the wrong groups.

    Story time:

    I knew a girl who worked as a journalist at some small time online magazine. Was from a typically conservative Delhi Punjabi family. Wasn’t very bright or academically accomplished but was in complete awe of the the whole leftist ‘intellectual’ eco-system in the city.

    She told me quite explicitly that her bosses at the magazine had instructed her to add some anti-BJP slant to whatever she wrote for her stories to be picked up.

    One time, some random literary event in Bhubaneshwar got cancelled. Sitting in Delhi and egged on by her seniors, she wrote an article blaming this on the rising authoritarianism under the current government.
    Later, it turned out that the event was actually postponed because of a logistical issue in booking the venue and would be re-scheduled for the next day.

    She got quite some flak for this on Twitter from the usual RW folks but also from the LW folks who were associated with the event. None of her bosses came to her rescue and just threw her under the bus, even blaming her for not checking facts. She was quite affected by it. I remember talking to her some time around this incident and she broke down in the middle of the conversation.

    She quit and was jobless and depressed for a few months. Wanted to get married and move to Canada.

    Inspite of all this, she continued to post far left stuff on her social media. I don’t know if she believed all of it. As in I know for a fact that she wanted a conventional marriage with a well-to-do guy so that she wouldn’t have as much pressure to earn.
    But on social media she’d post extreme feminist-y stuff, trying to portray herself as bisexual or polyamorous or any other cool dating trends doing the rounds.

    Eventually, she found a job at an NGO that’s quite enmeshed in the Lutyen’s eco-system.

    We’ve lost touch now. At some point, she realised that my views were far too heterodox for her.

    But the whole experience did leave me very cynical of the media business and also made me appreciate the almost religion like sway that the eco-system holds over impressionable youngsters.

    Anyway, moral of the story is that even if her specifics might differ, let’s not be too harsh on Disha Ravi.

    1. Agree with u. My experiences have been on the same lines. I myself , had been LARPing as a soft-leftie through out my 20s, because in a way that was the only scene in town. But then u live a lie long enough , it becomes ur truth, which happened to lot of my friends.

      Just a bit on Ravi and the govt OTT reaction, i think this idea that Modi and Shah burning the mid night oil plotting arrests of social media anti nationals are overblown. Anyone who has family in police and all, know that they are given a brief and then they just go around smashing the place around. They dont care of its a 21 year old or 91 year old. For them its just about getting in the good books of their political masters.

      As u said this govt has hardly has time to worry about 2 bit social media activists. But this whole hype about our side VS their side narrative keeps the popcorn coming.

    2. A whole lot of leftists are true believers. They are convinced that their outlook is the empathic one, and that conservatives are bereft of kindness. From these first principles they develop an anger towards political opponents and build an ends-justifies-the-means cynicism to justify unprincipled tactics. I mean, why would you play fair with evil people? Deepening this conformation bias is that they are likely to get baited into debates by the worst specimens of the right-wing, and not the broad majority who have temperate but pragmatic views. I have a cousin who says the most outrageous things about muslims, and his trolling becomes the embodiment of the entirety of hindu nationalist thought to others. There is another type of leftist of course who is not a true believer, but a social climber. The sort who thinks that adopting the right views is a mark of sophistication. They are intolerable.

    3. ….A 21-year old ‘activist’ Disha Ravi

      From what I have seen the establishment is quite harsh with people who even have embryonic links with splinter movements like KPJF. This is quite true on all campuses – commie groups know where to draw the line – they go as far as Trotskyism without slipping into Maoist territory.

      The other interesting thing I am hearing is that both Twitter and Whatsapp have co-operated to provide the electronic trail linking Greta and Disha. So they are all posturing in public only to have a full working relationship behind doors.

      The attempt to spin her age will end badly with the prosecutor’s office. Kasab was also just 21 in 2008. If the chargesheet is linked to the case where 80 policemen were injured (some of them badly), then the whole judicial system will vent their frustration on her. Greta is probably enjoying her frappe in Stockholm.

      1. Haha. Not Srinivasa Ramanujan but the original Ramanuja … the guy who fell in love with the eyes of deity at SriRangam IIRC.
        There is a entire cult following of him in Bhakti movement.

    1. Bhakti Movement was the Evolution/Reformation of Hinduism(whatever you wanna call it), Bhakti has become the cornerstone of Modern Hinduism. If Ramanuja was Tantric, then most Modern Hindus are also Tantric.

      1. Well most Sri Vaishnava temples follow Agama rituals and rules. (I know mostly about Tirumala temple)
        Most Hinduism is a mixture of Vedic and Tantric.
        If not, what’s your take on Sri Yantram?

      2. I feel like Ramanuja took it to the next level though, placing the Divya Prabandham on the same footing as the Vedas and requiring bhakti for moksha. And his model was emulated elsewhere through his spiritual descendants.

  5. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/14/modi-india-power-farmer-protest-human-rights/

    “ The government, it seems reasonable to surmise, has made a cynical calculation. Even though it has come under considerable international criticism for a number of its policy choices, it has determined that declining soft power is a small price to pay for carrying through its particular political agenda and consolidating the BJP’s position. Its calculation, it appears, is that given the size of India’s economy, its growing presence in global forums, and its significance in global politics, these criticisms, in due course, will wane and peter out. In the meantime, the government will have rebuilt Indian society around its own ideological vision.“

  6. The unsavoury Missionary called Peter Friedrich and his Khalistani backers have been exposed


    THE UN-ENDING WAR: From Proxy War to Info-War against India

    This unsavoury German christian missionary guy called Peter Friedrich has been seen in many anti-India demostrations and twitter and media fights
    It looks like he is a front man for Khalistani Bhajan Singh Bhinder

    1. That’s an interesting website. From the same site:

      “Farmers’ Protest & Khalistan: Useful Idiots or Malicious Agenda?”


      Supports my suspicion that the whole international hoopla around the protests is just badly handled psyops.

      I’ve been saying this for a while. Indian online sphere with its midwit leftists and rabid cretinous rightists is uniquely susceptible to psyops. If Modi-Shah do not command their IT cell to temper down, it could end up badly one day.

      Sudhir Chowdhary and the likes are not only a truly despicable men but also really really useful idiots.

      1. Sudhir Chowdhary and the likes are not only a truly despicable men but also really really useful idiots.

        Thanks for offering some perspectives on Indian society I’m blind to, like the left-wing journalist girl. I’m in my 40s, so that probably skews my own perspective as I don’t have or meet anyone in my circles who I would consider even left-wing (some may be moderately liberal), let alone of the woke persuasion. My extended family members range from moderately to rabidly right-wing. (My Dad watches this Sudhir Chowdhary character every night, where I can’t stand to even listen to the guy.) I don’t talk politics much with folks in my office, but the few conversations I’ve had gave me the impression most are on the right.

  7. http://www.businessworld.in/article/Ambedkar-Mahasabha-Trust-donates-silver-brick-to-Ram-temple-trust/15-02-2021-377611/

    “The Ambedkar Mahasabha Trust has donated a silver brick to the Shri Ram Janmbhoomi Teerth Kshetra, the trust constituted to look after the construction and management of Ram Temple here in Ayodhya.
    Ambedkar Mahasabha Trust chairman of Scheduled Caste Finance and Development Corporation Dr Lalji Prasad Nirmal said that the donation will send a message that Lord Ram is center of belief of Dalits of the country.
    “We have donated a silver brick to Ram Temple trust. We are sending the message that Lord Ram is the centre of belief of Dalits. Adivasis were with Lord Ram when he went to fourteen-year exile to forest. We want that a grand temple to be built in Ayodhya for Lord Ram,” he said.”

    The subaltern Hindu-dom of more-Hindu regions.

    1. https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/india/dalits-scoff-as-ambedkar-mahasabha-chief-who-honoured-yogi-with-dalit-mitra-samman-gets-government-post

      “Riding roughshod over protests by Ambedkar Mahasabha members, Mahasabha president Lalji Prasad Nirmal honoured Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath with a ‘Dalit Mitra’ award on April 14, the birth anniversary of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar. Nirmal received his return gift four days later when the BJP Government appointed him Chairperson of UP Scheduled Castes Finance and Development Corporation, a post which is equivalent to Minister of State. ”

      Saurav, there might be some political motivation behind this, seems there is a history already with the good Chairman and the BJP, quid pro quo LOL

      1. Could be. Though i wouldn’t be surprised if it hadn’t been that.

        When BJPs political opponents who signify different caste blocks (Yadavs and Dalits) have to kowtow on this issue, you know how deep these sentiments run,



  8. Bravo bangladesh.. BD govt must be congratulated for coming down on hard on murderous extremists. That is the way to run the country

    Bangladesh Avijit Roy murder: Five sentenced to die for machete attack on blogger
    This is not the first time jihadists have been sentenced by court in BD

    few other atheists were murdered by defenders of faith. Hope their day of reckoning comes

    1. Lol, kuch bhi?

      Hasina has been with the Islamists since the last couple of elections. This case is an odd man out. And the result mostly came because of bad press that Bangladesh got due to the very “online” nature of crime with pictures floating all around the net.

      Meanwhile, the army is building a 5 star resort in Bandarban while displacing the Chakmas. Not the mention the usual rape and pillage that happens (and proselytization and kidnapping and forced conversion of Chakma and other tribal women).

    1. > Meanwhile, A.S. Dulat, former chief of the Research and Analysis Wing and a member of the club, called it a “sad day”.

      > “I have been a member of this club for the last 50 years, and I can tell you it is not only the best club in the country, but also one of the best in the world… There is 50 per cent membership for those from the government, and if that makes the club exclusive, then yes, it is exclusive,” Dulat told ThePrint.

      If Dulat is crying, then the government is definitely did something good. Heck, make it a public park, would be for the greater good.

  9. one more spectacle in Karnataka. below poverty cards are issued to the poor. they get food grains at rupee 1 or 2 per kilo.
    Now, the minister involved said that people with motor bikes, fridges and colour television are not eligible for this benefit. all hell broke loose and he was forced to withdraw his statement.
    It is said that the state has issued almost 14 million family cards, considering at least 4 per family, we get a number of 56 million individual beneficiaries.
    karnataka probably has a population of 65 to 70 million.
    This means most of the state is below the poverty line?!!

      1. Hehe. He’s written about it as well.

        Funny thing is Hindu liberals and conservative Muslims want more Muslims in sarkar. But when Muslims join the sarkar and become liberal then these same people start complaining about it. Craven bunch.

  10. Inspired by the Junagadh/Kashmir post but unrelated to the main argument so posting here.

    We all know about Kashmir’s beauty. I’d like to plug Junagadh a bit. My parents lived there for a few years when I was in college and I spent my vacations there.

    Junagadh is really beautiful. The main city is built around the ancient Girnar hill and the temple on top. You can go rock climbing around the city. The Gir forest is nearby and Somnath is not too far away.

    Saurasthra generally is one of India’s most underrated tourist areas, probably because alcohol prohibition has prevented it from becoming a party hotspot. Do consider visiting at some point. A drive around the coast starting from Bhavnagar to Dwarka with Gir/Somnath/Porbandar in between followed by Jamnagar, Rajkot, Morbi and maybe ending the trip in Rann. Would make for a great holiday.

    Lovely places, great memories.

  11. Was listening to this podcast of Pasmanda feminist activist Amana Begam Ansari at Kushal’s podcast.


    I think this Pasmanda angle is going to be promoted more and more the next 5 years. If BJP wins 2024, it will leverage that for UCC. Not going to happen this tenure. The ground hasn’t been set for it yet.

      1. That 4D chess was never going to play out in the short term. Long term, there will be consequences if BJP persists with it. Not necessarily the one BJP wants electorally.

  12. https://araingang.medium.com/the-indus-valley-is-genetically-distinct-from-north-india-f2fe98e3e099

    He ignores 30+% dalits of Punjab. Uses birdari Punjabis only as a proxy for Pak Punjab and Jats for Indian Punjab (only 25% of Indian Punjab) and basically Patels for Gujarat (again many other groups and they are only plurality + their range is huge so averages are misleading). Overlap is there quite a bit but data is twisted to suit the needs of the Indus Larp gang.

    And Gujarat is part of Indus Valley whether he likes it or not. Western UP full of Jats is part of gangetic plains. So he enjoys lying about geography too. He will ignore such stuff to push his narrative. Brahmins are 10+% of UP but he just excludes them. The guy is quite disingenous. He cherry picks plurality groups from some places and claims arbitrarily that somehow is the correct way to sample and then runs a PCA. The guy is quite good at ignoring nuance within population structures when it suits his soft bigotry style.

    He is a motivated birdari ethnosupremacist islamoapologist, through and through.

  13. Is there a paper coming out on Sinauli aDNA? Was it ever extracted? OIT Twitter is agog with speculations. Niraj Rai’s Twitter feed is increasingly filled with artifacts from Sinauli.

    I missed the Kurma Avatar chalice at the grave goods find. It’s a bowl (hemispherical) that has a single standing base on the back of a tortoise. This is a very neat functional adaptation of the Kurma story from Samudra Manthan. Then the chalice is a metaphor for Amrit.

    It was found at the main grave besides the two chariots.

      1. @DaThang

        Jaydeepsinh Rathod found another startling coincidence – the copper wire/wooden shields found at Sinauli have a classic 8 shape. This is exactly the same as Mycenaean form factor for shields in the Bronze Age. But Sinauli precedes the Mycenaean artifacts and frescoes by almost 200-300 years.

        This is getting more and more inconvenient for Western Indologists. Parpola jumped to say these are early Aryans (without horse). Witzel is claiming these are language X speakers (whatever that maybe).

        Sinauli is only a necropolis – there is surely a big city buried within a radius of 5 kms. One wonders what other excavations will bring up.

        1. Niraj Rai said that the results won’t contradict much from Narasimhan’s and Shinde’s papers, so maybe it will just be more of the same.

          You seem to know stuff about Indian archaeology. A while back I think I saw a report on where Ganga Mesolithic samples are being kept, do you have a link to it? I lost it some time ago.

          1. I think the Ganga Mesolithic samples are kept at University of Allahabad. Are you referring to the Lukacs-Pal paper?


            If the genetic results are the same as Rakhigarhi, then they will muddle the picture even more. No steppes component at Sinauli tilts the scale. I do hope that they are able to find out the haplogroup.

          2. Thanks for the location info but I was talking about a source which I recall had something like ‘where are they now’ in it. I think it doesn’t matter since they are probably still at the University. Maybe ASI should try to get these samples tested and see if their remains yield any ancient DNA.

          3. @DaThang

            There have been ample excavations since the 1970s on Mesolithic sites. Most of the times the skeletons are put in storage at ASI designated centers – universities and govt museums. Most of the time it is a Godrej almirah or a steel trunk in a relic room. They would be safer here than in the ground (salinity/fertilizer leaching etc).

            There are nodal institutes for genetics (DBT, CCMB etc) and archaeology (ASI) but none for archaeogenetics. So there is no focussed attempt to unravel the past. Setting up labs and funding expeditions is prohibitive for other governmental agencies. One other nodal agency in India that should be focused on doing this is Birbal Sahni Palaeosciences Institute, directly funded by DST, GoI. If you look at their website, they are excessively focussed on palaeobotany based on its founder’s vision. In the end, it is just a few committed individuals siphoning budgets to get results.

  14. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9babd8e4-43b1-4d2f-b9de-ad97e7c745fc

    Just lmfao. They like the reforms and they know it. I wonder why people refuse to call spade what it is. This is a Jat Caste revolt.This has to do with disproportionate extraction of state welfare and using extortionist methods to defend it. Period.

    This is not about farmers. And there are separatist elements exploiting the situation. At least the WSJ had a more balanced approach. FT is being funny for a pro market paper.

    “Consensus” building lmfao. There would never be consensus on this. Every policy shift has winners and losers. The issue is the minority “loser” group has disproportionate street power. And they are exploiting the hell out of it.

    There is going to be short term economic harm to these people who don’t want to get out of the 1970s farming mindset, growing their surplus crop and destroying their water tables and air. But long term, after a transition, it will lead to a better environment, cheaper food, more industrialisation, and more wealth for all regions.

    1. Waiting for next Bloomberg article as how privatization is actually MMS reform and its just fulfillment of ‘Nehru’s economic vision’

  15. https://theprint.in/opinion/how-bjp-became-tmcs-challenger-in-bengal-wooing-elite-and-working-class-hindus/607740/

    “One cannot but ask: How did a party with its avowed stance on religion and Right-wing ideologies not only earn the trust of so many voters in a state where people have been flaunting their secular, Left and liberal credentials as the core of their identity, but is also poised to grab more support now?”

    Less-Hindu region turning into semi (?) Hindu region

  16. For globalists, historical time is running out, for them it is – now or never


    * “Big reset” is not something accidental and transient. Globalization is the logical result of world history, as liberal thought understands it, and liberalism is the priority of freeing the individual from all forms of collective identity. With the abolition of nation-states and (as an ideal) the creation of a World Government

    * For liberals, gender as gender should become a matter of individual choice – something like religion, profession, nationality, etc. Otherwise, “progress” will be slowed down. Hence the transgender and homosexual couples in the Biden administration

    * Globalists now define democracy as the rule of a minority directed against a “criminal” majority that at any time – under the influence of populism – can choose Trump or … Hitler

    * The great reset is the triumph of liberal ideology at its highest stage, the stage of globalization. And all those who oppose will be declared “enemies of an open society”. They will be offered to surrender voluntarily. If they do not obey, the whole `progressive world` will fall on them – with its unlimited finances, military-technical potential and inexhaustible ability to control the” dreams of humanity “.

    1. *Globalists are aware that if their defeats and failures continue to pile up, the entire five-hundred-year history of liberalism will collapse. The multipolar world – to which Trump himself intuitively gravitated, directly criticizing globalization – will not leave the Liberals any chance. Therefore, the masks were removed

      * It is difficult for `ordinary citizens` to understand the whole ominous background of liberal ideology, which consistently and consciously leads to the destruction of humanity, its “overcoming ”

      * The thesis about the “Great Awakening” was born by Trump’s supporters, who became the first victims of the coming liberal totalitarianism.

      * The “Great Awakening” is the realization that modern liberalism in the phase of globalization has turned into a real dictatorship … This is very similar to the beginning of a new civil war in the United States. Only, this time the camps are different: supporters of the “Great Awakening” versus supporters of the “Great Reset”

      * The room for compromise with globalists is completely exhausted. There is only one way out: to wake up completely and not only to actively participate in the Great Awakening.


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