181 thoughts on “Open Thread – 4/24/2021 – Brown Pundits”

  1. Not trying to troll, honestly. How come Pakistan does not seem nearly as affected by India by COVID?

    Some of the anti-Hindus who frequent here might say that this is so because Modi botched up Indian response (these are also people who find it suspicious that not enough Indians died last year, but don’t have similar questions concerning Pakistan). Others might say Pakistan is really affected, the numbers don’t come out – like what Indian liberals say about UP and Bihar, but not about Pakistan.

    But apart from this are there some “natural advantages” that Pakistan has – younger population, fewer people returning from countries that are affected this time, fewer rich people with mild cases using connections and money to occupy hospital beds that should go to more serious cases (Tendulkar?)?

    Is there a point at which accepting we are screwed and letting go is better not only for the economy but perhaps even to actually save lives: is all our intervention hurting more than helping by redirecting hospital resources to less deserving cases?

    1. All countries neighboring India were less affected than india was. So not sure it’s Pakistani phenomenon.

      The 2nd wave also hit differently in different countries. Some countries didn’t have 2nd wave. For some the 1st wave just flowed into the 2nd one. In US case it took around 30-60 days to reach the peak of 2nd wave. India reached that in a couple of weeks.

      We just don’t know enough.

    2. Is there a point at which accepting we are screwed and letting go is better not only for the economy but perhaps even to actually save lives: is all our intervention hurting more than helping by redirecting hospital resources to less deserving cases?

      Doesn’t make much sense. These interventions are at an individual level. If your near and dear ones have covid, you will do whatever you can to help them. No level of policy is going to change that.

      Not trying to troll, honestly. How come Pakistan does not seem nearly as affected by India by COVID?

      Pakistan is barely doing any tests. In any case, I think it’s important to wait. We were celebrating India’s covid response and within a few weeks we got fucked. I wish that doesn’t happen in Pakistan but I don’t see any point in jumping to conclusions at this point.

      1. Doesn’t make much sense. These interventions are at an individual level. If your near and dear ones have covid, you will do whatever you can to help them. No level of policy is going to change that.

        It is all about the threshold. If someone tests positive and has only a mild fever, will people try to pull strings to hospitalize him/her? I guess the probability of that happening will depend on how much noise the country makes about it, so the Government’s policy does make a difference.

        1. It is all about the threshold. If someone tests positive and has only a mild fever, will people try to pull strings to hospitalize him/her?

          A large chunk of the beds are already taken up by people with severe infection and this happened in a very short time. That is why there’s a scramble to find beds when people are testing+ now. It’s sort of like a bank run.
          And as Ugra mentioned, this particular variant is qualitatively different. The oxygen saturation levels fall very rapidly before other symptoms even show up.

    3. @froginthewell

      You are expecting bell curves of similar peaks (normalized to intensity) in all population masses at different times.

      Everyone scratched their heads about India’s low numbers in the first wave. Yesterday I came to know about a tenant of my friend – a joint family lost 6 members – 3 sisters, 2 elders and a husband. 2 more members are still critical. The 35 year old husband’s spo2 levels dropped to 20% in 4 days. He succumbed.

      This 2nd wave is qualitatively different, I think. Not the same organism. Many RT-PCR tests are turning out negative.

      1. Is the point that the Indian mutant is what accounts for the difference? Thanks.

        1. Yes. ICMR, WHO or other bodies have not confirmed it. But the intensity is appalling – not at all from the first wave experience – even for doctors. Pakistan is pretty much insulated from India for people to people contact.

          1. Thanks. Sounds like a much more satisfactory explanation than anything else I can think of. Of course, I guess we will know more about it in the time to come.

      2. Yes, significantly high proportion of hypoxia. And almost no Colloquial mild symptoms (except in very young and vaccinated people).
        Its almost like first wave on steroids.
        30-35 year old have fever n loose motions for 7+ days straight along with immense fatigue and body ache

        1. I am one of the most disease resistant people I know. I get headache once every year and cough-cold maybe once every 5 years, flu virus dies on touching my blood and salmonela commits suicide by entering my system. Off the gym for more than a year now so have put on some weight but way above average fit.

          One day after exposure I (and my entire family) went straight to fever and body aches. One person had upset stomach but mostly just fever coming and going (after eating paracetamol 650 mg). I got through it in 3-4 days mostly by starting to comment on brownpundits again, sweating and staring at the ceiling fan. About 7-10 days into it things get bad for people who are struggling. If Oxygen level is ok entertain yourself with homeopathy, bab ramdev, Ayurved, lying in prone position, masturbating with non-dominant hand etc whatever superstition you deem worthy but Oxygen level below 95 means you are fucked and below 90 means emergency. Ayurved DOES NOT WORK when oxygen levels are down, kadha won’t work, bhasm, bhabhoot, chyavanprash, coronil, gaay ki muut- nothing works, convince your older generation that.

          Climbing stairs, crossing roads, parking lots, etc makes the oxygen drop dramatically. Highly recommend getting a bed before leaving the home. I have seen a person being brought to the hospital all pale/blue with oxygen level at 40! and dying.

          1. This sounds like a totally different beast compared to the OG wuhan strain that I contracted more than a year ago, I was sleepy and weak for 3-4 days then recovered with anosmia for 6-7 weeks. And I’m quite fit as well, but the virus has clearly become something else now. Take care all

    4. How come Pakistan does not seem nearly as affected by India by COVID?

      Age. India is not as young as people think. It’s median age is about the same as Brazil or Mexico and both of those countries got hit hard. Pakistan’s age profile is much younger. Bangladesh is a more interesting comparison to India. But Bangladesh has done better on a range of human health indicators for a long time now, so their relative outperformance shouldn’t be too surpising.

    5. So far its a mystery why Pakistan hasn’t been badly affected. There was never a seriously hard lockdown and people think getting Covid is no more than a few days of coughs and fever. There seems to be a consensus that the population has some sort of natural immunity, pretty much in line with what India thought til this latest wave hit.

      Testing capacity is very limited so the number of reported cases will always be small. There hasnt been a noticeable surge in funerals/burials so while the number of deaths are certainly being underreported, they are not massively off the mark.

      Cases have started rising lately though with hospitals running out of beds and 90% of Oxygen capacity being used. As the govt is doing nothing more than issuing Twitter warnings and people arent really giving a fuck, an Indian apocalypse is on the cards.

    6. Pakistan is not out of the woods, people are not distancing and COVID cases are steadily rising for the past two weeks. Although situation is still controllable, but who knows whats gonna happen two or three weeks from now. The hope is that the people see what’s happening in India and start taking it seriously themselves.
      Pak government at least has (in my opinion) still handled the situation well given the circumstances. I think Indian government got complacent and completely dropped the ball with superspreader events like Holi, Election rallies and Kumbh Mela.

    7. Dude pray this variant doesn’t spread there or anywhere else for that matter. Its a tragedy all around. Anyone know what the best charity to donate to would be in a situation like this? What’s the most effective way to get my money utilized on the ground rapidly?

  2. It is beyond anything ever seen or imagined in Lucknow. The government is trying hard, there is a lack of resources but not of intent. District CMO office is calling regularly, helpline numbers are working, the government hospital staff is very rude, unprofessional but they are really really trying. Doctors are trying heroically, nurses mostly girls just 20-21 of age are trying. The massive ambulance service that SP built in its tenure is working.

    What is not working is the people, M***rc**d gol-gappe kha rahe hain sadak pe, bina mask ke jhund mein ghum rahe hain, sabji-mandi mein bheed ka andaza nai hai, itni suvar hai iss desh ki janta, naali mein naha nai paate nahi toh woh bhi karein virus laane ke liye, khulle mein potty karne wale janwar hain saale jaahil. Suar, fucking Suar saale.

    Black mein oxygen, Remdesivir bech rahe hain. But the medical stores are at-least working and ALL other medicines and essentials are available. NGO type social organizations are doing a good job of providing food to people who are sick. Oxygen is available but cylinders are gone. Hospital beds are full. UP ki harami janta line todd ke aage jana, chik-chik karke hospital staff ka samay kharab karna, argue karna jhagadna etc se baaz nai aa rahi hai. A huge number of fattu doctors have closed their clinics in fear. Bhagwan kare rob hon aise MC doctor akele sadak pe aur koi bachane naa aaye.

    Like everything else ghasith rahe hain(India is crawling). Hagg-dena aur moo-chodi humara signature hai (Shitting our pants and empty-talk is our signature).

    My heroes in all this is the 20-something ward boy and nurse, the compounder and the DALIT hospital janitor. Buddhe isolation ward ki loneliness mein apna oxygen nikal ke ya khana chood ke marr jaa rahe hain, hospital ke bahar log line mein marr jaa rahe hain. Aansu aa gaye yaar, lene gaya tha main kisi ko level-3 (ventilator) covid ward se, 10-15 support staff bichaare bahar choodne aaye mere patient ko. Gaand phat gayi meri unki aankhon mein khushi dekh ke. Bahut saare acche logg hain yaar iss desh mein par majority maha-madarchod hai.

    1. My parents are in UP too. I was reading that there is a ban on oxygen cylinders outside hospitals. Wouldn’t that exacerbate the situation? Considering that there could be many who are being home treated and can recover from oxygen supply?

      1. Bhai koi nahi punch raha, oxygen pe toh jungle-raaj hai. Raam naam ki lut hai lut sake toh lut chal raha hai…

        We got hold of an oxygen cylinder (without mask and other stuff) from a welding shop. People are selling them at 15k apiece in interior towns.

        In emergency try Aashirwad medical store, Aminabad, Lucknow +91 9889015753 for cylinders. Not sure ki ab hai ki nai. Filling stations are aplenty atleast in Lucknow.

        In my native place and home in Yadavland (Kanpur Dehat, Etawah, Jalaun, Auraiya, Hamirpur, Banda) the oxygen situation is dire so we brought our patients to Kanpur and Lucknow.

        Ask them to weld the doors and not come out for a few weeks if you want to escape the horror. Koi nahi bachta even with the most minor exposure.

        Also buy ivermectin, doxycycline and zinc acetate tablets for them ASAP. Sabko de rahe hain yahan government wale aur even private doctors. It worked for a lot of people I know but I am no doctor.

        1. Yes, already stocked up. Thankfully bought everything around the 1st wave itself. Also both parents are vaccinated, so that’s a relief.

    2. @Bhimrao

      Mate that’s a very grim picture. Thanks for the update. Would appreciate if others in other parst of India are also able to provide some info on the situation in their areas.

      My story is relatively benign –
      My parents and grandfather went to get their second jab at their local hospital in Mumbai but were turned back due to shortage of vaccine supply. And there are dozens of cases in their apartment complex and neighbouring complexes, the locality has been declared a local containment zone and there are no prople going in and coming out, maidservants and drivers included. The local kirana/supermarkets stores are supplying to the apartment security at the gates via orders placed on whatsapp, its just like the first lockdown. A couple of older but not aged (50+) relatives in Hyd and Chennai have succumbed and a few others have contracted the disease but are managing ok (I think) but this is next level craziness. Hope all the readers and their families and loved ones manage to make it to the other side.


  3. What is not working is the people, M***rc**d gol-gappe kha rahe hain

    Damn true. Really annoyed by idiots blaming political parties for this shit.

    Most politicians are shit and I wouldn’t be surprised if in many places, they were handling the situation like shit.

    But ending up in this situation itself is purely up to the citizens.

    Cases in Chennai are at an all time high, and I still see idiots in some of my Whatsapp groups planning lunches and football games like nothing’s happening. Also sure that at least one of these retards will later log into FB and Twitter and talk about how XYZ party is not taking the situation seriously.

    1. “Also sure that at least one of these retards will later log into FB and Twitter and talk about how XYZ party is not taking the situation seriously.”

      Wouldn’t that be an Aryan conspiracy to defile pure Dravida-land?

  4. https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpress.com/article/cities/pune/indias-sugar-mills-to-manufacture-medical-oxygen-7286934/lite/

    India’s sugar mills to manufacture medical oxygen

    During the meeting, three main methods were discussed to manufacture oxygen. Firstly, mills that have an ethanol manufacturing facility installed can start deriving oxygen from air by carrying out some minor modifications in their setup. Secondly, a molecular sieve has to be installed to filer out oxygen from the air and that can be sealed in cylinders. Thirdly, mills with 60 KLPD ethanol manufacturing capacity plants can supply 1,000 cylinders of 10-15 tonnes per day through this method.

  5. Not trying to troll, honestly. How come Pakistan does not seem nearly as affected by India by COVID?

    Surprised nobody talked about population density, big cities, and connectivity. Karachi and Lahore are the only big cities in Pak. And while I’ve read about Pakistan having good highways, how good/active is their railway system?

    1. Most of the population is concentrated in cities/towns jam packed together à la North India so the population is sufficiently dense for variants to mutate and Covid to explode. Railway network is highly mismanaged and on the verge of collapse but road connectivity is decent. UK mutation is right now the dominant variant and there is every possibility that Indian mutations can enter through UK and Middle East. Pakistan does have a low median age but it might just be a case of pure luck that it has so far escaped relatively unscathed.

  6. Interesting to see the change of tone from the Indian RW now that UP is affected. Just a month ago, they were celebrating and rejoicing every COVID-19 death in Kerala, and taunting and mocking the people there.

  7. I can recollect some sort of BP topic during the Biden inauguration – where a commenter said that the mainstream view of the Biden/Democrat Admin being bad for India is actually code for “being bad to Modi”. And another guy jumped in to say this is why “he comes to BP” for high quality commentary.

    Now that the Biden export ban on vaccine production consumables are in place firmly (and re-confirmed), we can invite those two commenters to a crow biryani tasting.

  8. How SII is profiteering from Indians’ misery
    At Rs 600 per dose, Indians getting inoculated with Covishield at private hospitals from May 1 could end up paying the highest price in the world for this vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca.

    This, despite it being contract-manufactured by Pune’s Serum Institute of India whose CEO Adar Poonawalla had said that the firm was making a profit even at a price of Rs 150 per dose.

    In fact, Poonawalla also floated the Rs 1,000 per dose ($13) rate after the first shipment went out telling ANI: “We have given a special price of Rs 200 for the first 100 million doses only to the Government of India… and, after that, we will be selling at Rs 1,000 in private markets.”

    But SII’s latest rate card, of Rs 600 per dose for the private market — coming amid the fierce second Covid wave —translates to about $8 per shot and is more than its price in any major global market.

    Indians getting vaccinated at state government hospitals, too, could end up paying around Rs 400 (or over $5.30) per dose from their pockets, if states decide they cannot afford to absorb the costs of procuring fresh doses.

    Even the Rs 400 procurement price — applicable to both State and new Central procurement orders — is higher than the price at which governments in countries such as the US, UK and in the European Union are sourcing directly from AstraZeneca.

    It is also higher than the price agreed by countries such as Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and South Africa for supplies of the vaccine from SII. In most of these countries, the shots are being administered for free, with the governments absorbing the costs.

    1. The article targets Mr Poonawalla for some reasons unknown but very cunningly mentions why is Mr Poonawalla doing so. Europe and United States have invested in AstraZeneca during research and development. Indian Government didn’t do so. Neither the State governments nor the Central government invest in the production process ( Well now central government has extended Rs 3000 crore credit line), the Central government will receive the subsidized price while the States and Private sector won’t for the same reason.

      1. “The article targets Mr Poonawalla for some reasons unknown”

        Its not really unknown, is it?

        Its like the whole Ambani-Adani-suit boot redux.

  9. Lots of folks blaming “Howdy Modi” for the response of the US on social media. Mainly Indian liberals in the last few days. I find this reasoning strange. Advanced democracies are not personality driven, but operate on long-term strategic goals. The Biden admin has better PR than Trump but the core policies of “America First” remains unchanged. To blame Howdy Modi is a simultaneous attempt to both absolve the US of its responsibility of blocking exports for vaccines to India and personalise the current situation as all being about Modi. It strikes me as both shameless and stupid.

    More generally, this American unwillingness to help India in its dire hour of need exposes Quad for being much like BRICS: a theoretical construct without substantial substance.

    1. Henry Kissinger ““It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal”

    2. America has no allies, only interests. (And this makes sense, since Americans are arrogant as a nation, and the American military might is still unrivalled even if their economic hegemony is being threatened now.) India will eventually find this out the hard way if they continue courting the Americans to antagonize the Chinese. Best way to deal with America is to employ what I would term as the ‘Baghal main churi moon pe Raam’ tactic. Extract maximum concessions using whatever leverage possible.

      1. Dont think Indian establishement wears rose tinted glasses on US. India has not antagonized the Chinese in lieu of USA. It did what it could do mollify the chinese the whole decade, as much as it can. There is no emotional or political victory or cost with China in India, till last year. On QUAD India is the one which needs military support not the other way round. And from the turn of the century , US has helped (concessions) India than vice-versa.

      2. “The United States has foolishly given Pakistan more than 33 billion dollars in aid over the last 15 years, and they have given us nothing but lies & deceit,” Trump tweeted on January 1. “They give safe haven to the terrorists we hunt in Afghanistan, with little help. No more!”


        This is what such stupidity and hatred gets. Push West any more and perhaps ZAB’s dream of eating grass will come true too.

        btw it was no genius of Pakistan that they fooled Americans. Americans trampled on their country, killed their soldiers and their pet OBL inside their country. AND most importantly it was the first time Pakistan was seriously duping Americans and had benefit of doubt on their side. I will be impressed if Pakistan can pull it off again.

        Look at Pakistan’s exports to the west and China+Arabs…

        1. // AND most importantly it was the first time Pakistan was seriously duping Americans and had benefit of doubt on their side//

          No, it is not the first time but the second time. The first time was in the 80’s when Pakistan was developing nukes right under the noses of the Americans, using American money and the American diplomats were forced to look the other way. This is why as soon as they got out of Afghanistan, they implemented sanctions on Pakistan as early as 1989. The situation was much worse then than it is right now since Pakistan still relied heavily on American weapons.

          As for trump tweets: lol. Same Trump was hosting Imran Khan 2 years later along with half of GHQ at the Whitehouse. It’s all business.

          This is the correct way to deal with the Americans, since they will deal exactly like this with you. Almost all of US allies in the middle east has found that out now that US is withdrawing from ME and concentrating on Asia Pacific because oil is not that important anymore.

          As for trade ties, they are not going anywhere anytime soon. US despite all its bravado against China, is still importing half a trillion dollars of goods from them. If you think the US elite loves heavy handed sanctions on everyone that harms their own business interests, you are dead wrong.

  10. Few of my family members have it in Gujarat. Very bad. The mass cremations are heartbreaking

    What a fucking disaster

    1. Anecdotally, and people can correct me, it seems like Gujarat is the worst hit, then UP, then Maharashtra. I wonder if this is true, and whether the percentage of hypoxia or whatever correlates well with the new variant.

  11. https://twitter.com/vjgtweets/status/1386158170737766401

    “Even I’m not this cynical typically, but the lack of any public comments from Biden/Harris suggests that this is in fact an attempt to take Modi down a peg.

    That this move could very well result in the deaths of Indians (compounded no doubt by the Modi govt’s failures) is a timely reminder that the path to global hegemony is not paved with kindness and charity, but w/ruthlessly calculated violence in the service of national interest

    That some Indians can hardly contain their glee at the prospect of a weakened Modi is why India will remain a third rate power for the foreseeable future. An elite in a country as diverse of India will always have differences, but knowing when to circle the wagons is key.

    Despite centuries of humiliation aided and abetted by excessive factionalism, this is a lesson that the Indian elite has not yet learned. They remain handmaidens of power, ever ready to serve as intermediaries between an outsider and the benighted natives

    Naipaul— as usual— put it best: “Its mimicry is both less and more than a colonial mimicry. It is the special mimicry of an old country which has been without a native aristocracy for a thousand years and has learned to make room for outsiders, but only at the top”

  12. The likely number is well over 10 times what is being reported. Of the over 20 people in my family who got infected only three got RT-PCR and hence got into official papers, some of the rest were Rapid tests.

    In the 1 hour I was in line I saw 10-15 people at the primary hospital who got covid positive on Rapid test and walked away without even their names being recorded. I am certain UP is under reporting cases by an order of magnitude. Under reporting deaths might not be possible as there are too many officials involved.

    Rapid test mostly sucks. It is wildly inaccurate and gives miss detections all the time. RT-PCR is somewhat difficult to get.

  13. https://twitter.com/sibinmohan/status/1386084322873020417

    “3. DIPLOMACY. The current right-wing BJP government is more interested in winning elections than trying to mitigate the pandemic or even providing essential supplies to its citizens. Diplomatic pressure from the US government can, perhaps, put a spotlight on the crisis.

    So call and/or write to your Congressional Representatives or Senators to seriously look at these issues. This will help a lot! When the US was in the grips of COVID and the Trump admin, a lot of goodwill came from around the world. So time to return some goodwill.

    Note, many right wing supporters are in the mentions of Americans asking people to donate to the Prime Ministers CARES fund. Please DO NOT do this! That money has zero accountability or traceability and is being used for political purposes. ”

    Meanwhile Kamala chitti groupies ☝️

    1. ‘Diplomatic pressure of US’ ki maa ka…

      BC gaand-phati-ke bheekh maang raha the MC Trump HCQ ke liye ab moo-chodi kar rahe hain…

      Aur woh kahan chupe hain saale ‘vaccine maitri’ waale chootiye. Saala yeh ullu ka pattha S Jaishankar(not technically ullu ka pattha as his father was smart), iske bahut gaand mein khujli hai ‘vishwaguru’ banne ki. BC maha daridri hain hum Hindustani, khaane ko khaana nai hai, malnutrition mein number one hain, haggne ko toilet nai hai aur banenge duniya ke neta. Pada muunh pe juuta.

      Itni phudakan hai Indians mein. Bhai koi ek country bhi puuri duniya mein humko jhaant bhaav nai deta. Do kauri ki izzat nai hai humaari. Internalize this, pehle kuch bano phir style jhaado. BC farji ka gyaan pelna hai bas, kaam dhaam kuch nai bas farji ka gyan… ‘panch-sheel’ , ‘ahimsa’ , …. Chootiye, aukaat hai nai aur gyaan denge.

      1. https://twitter.com/sumanthraman/status/1385911325000278018

        “Govt must call #AstraZeneca immediately and buy the license to manufacture the #Covid vaccine at GOI plant. This dependence on Serum Institute has to stop. There is a huge Govt vaccine complex at Chengalpet lying unused since 2012. Use as many places to manufacture”


        “If banks can be nationalised, so can vaccine manufacturers in a global pandemic! maybe time to remind them of the possibility????”

        Bhim bhai, any thoughts ? 😛

      2. https://theprint.in/india/those-questioning-covid-vaccine-exports-are-short-sighted-really-irresponsible-jaishankar/642462/

        “I would say the blame-game wallahs will have their attitude and their approach. As serious people, let’s look at it. Today, as foreign minister, I am pushing other countries, particularly some big countries, saying look please keep the raw materials flowing for vaccines to be made in India. Can I, on one hand, go around the world and tell people ‘guys keep your supply chains flowing towards me and I am asking you for raw material but I’m not going to give you the vaccine’?”

        Haan Haan Mauritius aur Dominican Republic toh bahut raw material banate hain… ab hamari phati hai toh yeh chinne chinne liliput desh humko bahut oxygen bhej rahe hain naa…

        Itna besharam hai yeh Jaishankar. Manega nai apni galti.

        March mein yeh keh raha tha chootiya:


        Jaishankar says Vaccine Maitri based on availability of adequate stock at home.

        Man-na toh hai hi nai iss suar ko. Zimmedari toh lega nai. Hum bahut bade geo-strategist hain… bada deep insight hai humara in 97-dimensional Chess…

  14. https://twitter.com/tunkuv/status/1385926944290652162

    “I suspect there will be a “reset” in India’s relations with the US as a result of Biden’s vaccine-export decision. India won’t see it as another country also exercising its ‘right’ to safeguard its own people first. The US failed to handle this request with observable humanity.”

    Commies getting wet dreams that this will lead to US-India break up.

  15. https://twitter.com/sumanthraman/status/1385911325000278018

    “Govt must call #AstraZeneca immediately and buy the license to manufacture the #Covid vaccine at GOI plant. This dependence on Serum Institute has to stop. There is a huge Govt vaccine complex at Chengalpet lying unused since 2012. Use as many places to manufacture”

    “If banks can be nationalised, so can vaccine manufacturers in a global pandemic! maybe time to remind them of the possibility????”

    Bhim Bhai, any thoughts 😛

    1. https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/companies/exclusive-the-govts-fledgling-mega-vaccine-complex-in-tamil-nadu-may-soon-get-a-strategic-partner-4631991.html

      “We weren’t interested because it will cost us three times to produce vaccines in that facility compared to ours,”

      “As a result, it is poorly designed, very expensive to operate,”

      Public sector enterprises suck. HAL, BEML, BHEL, NHAI, AI … I can name 100 such pissu organizations sucking at this country’s lifeblood. I can name 10 in pharmaceutical, prosthetics sectors. Anything that they do can be done cheaper and better by private enterprises, but these people will continue to further their leftie agenda at the cost of people’s lives. There should be anti-monopoly, anti-cartelization and anti insider-trading laws against government favoring its own companies.

      Guha and his ilk are baking their (anti-Modi) bread on cremation fires.

      Modi is a professional politician first, he and his dogs in godi-media will give the tragedy their spin. That pig S. Jaishankar has already started lying as if Honduras and Dominican Republic give us all important ingredients. BJP has perfected the art of not taking responsibility.

      1. There should be anti-monopoly, anti-cartelization and anti insider-trading laws against government favoring its own companies
        I agree but against all companies rigorously implemented. Just doing this will make any country great along with support and not protection to MSMEs.

      2. Modi needs to learn to trust and empower his lieutenants/generals. His insistence on being seen as leading every battle from front is counter productive and leads to diminishing returns. The feedback loop in decision making needs to be transparent and people need to feel their feedback had been taken in to account and trade-offs in decisions need to be explained. This can be done without going back to UPA era lobbying. In states, there is opportunity for a nationalist and development oriented parties to easily defeat BJP. Heck, Kejri and Jagan are doing it. Hopefully we get a more responsible/nationalist opposition.

  16. Is there any data or research on what variants are spreading?

    Some of the virus behaviour seems really unpredictable. An aunt passed away today after what seemed like she had recovered. The fever had gone and oxygen had returned to normal levels. She had just talked to my mom on call yesterday.

    Today afternoon she suddenly passed out and by the time she could be taken to a hospital, she was gone. Doubly tragic because she had just cremated her father a few days back.

    Mid-40s, no known co-morbidities.

    1. @prats
      That’s tragic and alarmingly sudden. So sorry to hear this. Hope you and the rest of the folks here living in the midst of the hotspots take every possible precaution.

    2. That’s very tragic. Hopefully more information comes out on how this new strain affects people, it seems like we are back to Feb 2020 where we had no information on COVID, and lot of horror stories and fear amongst people.

    3. same story with sis-in-law’s cousin. barely 40, recovered and then sudden collapse.
      condolences and take care.
      Saw a twitter clip between kanchan gupta and prof ranganathan. Prod said covishield is not protective of south african variant and that is why SA has stopped using covishield.
      Masks and social distancing seem safe bets. Dense living in covid area is not very helpful

  17. Many doctors transferred/joining private hospital in Lucknow from Andhra, and Tamil Nadu to man covid wards. Most are veterans but quite a few young guys. Madraasis good job!

    1. I mean they are in the country to provide the brain ,while we provide the brawn, isn’t it 😛

    2. Glad and heartening to see.
      fyi Madraasi is equivalent or worse than Bhaiyya. Mutual

  18. https://twitter.com/arvindgunasekar/status/1386282067680391173

    “Not seen more illogical assumptions. If these numbers are to be true SII is destined to become bigger than Reliance Industries and at par with Apple. Please be responsible
    @arvindgunasekar and don’t create such sentiment amongst Indians already overburdened by the catastrophe.”

    India’s Serum institute soon to be next Apple of India, according to Congress. This is the opposition India needs 😛

  19. Neither Settler nor Native
    The Making and Unmaking of Permanent Minorities
    Mahmood Mamdani

    Making the radical argument that the nation-state was born of colonialism, this book calls us to rethink political violence and reimagine political community beyond majorities and minorities.

    In this genealogy of political modernity, Mahmood Mamdani argues that the nation-state and the colonial state created each other. In case after case around the globe—from the New World to South Africa, Israel to Germany to Sudan—the colonial state and the nation-state have been mutually constructed through the politicization of a religious or ethnic majority at the expense of an equally manufactured minority.

    The model emerged in North America, where genocide and internment on reservations created both a permanent native underclass and the physical and ideological spaces in which new immigrant identities crystallized as a settler nation. In Europe, this template would be used by the Nazis to address the Jewish Question, and after the fall of the Third Reich, by the Allies to redraw the boundaries of Eastern Europe’s nation-states, cleansing them of their minorities. After Nuremberg the template was used to preserve the idea of the Jews as a separate nation. By establishing Israel through the minoritization of Palestinian Arabs, Zionist settlers followed the North American example. The result has been another cycle of violence.

    Neither Settler nor Native offers a vision for arresting this historical process. Mamdani rejects the “criminal” solution attempted at Nuremberg, which held individual perpetrators responsible without questioning Nazism as a political project and thus the violence of the nation-state itself. Instead, political violence demands political solutions: not criminal justice for perpetrators but a rethinking of the political community for all survivors—victims, perpetrators, bystanders, beneficiaries—based on common residence and the commitment to build a common future without the permanent political identities of settler and native. Mamdani points to the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa as an unfinished project, seeking a state without a nation.


    1. @Roy
      Have you read the above? What’s the root reason of why we would want to arrest the process of nation state actuation set forth by privileged settlers/colonisers ?

  20. Found this stat on number of hospital beds per 1Lakh population.

    Did not expect KA to be so far ahead of others. Anecdotally I know bengaluru, belgavi and manipal are medical hubs. Lots of big hospitals. Basically the proliferation at-least 2 engineering colleges and 1 medical college per district in 80s is paying dividends. In recent years, this model has been replicated as more smaller districts were carved out. What was surprising was TN and MH being so far behind. My impression was they also followed similar model.
    Overall, inspite of all the caste politics, I see all parties in South India (MH till recently) focused on all around development using funds from the IT boom. Something out northern cousins could learn from.

    1. Yeah, this is surprising to the extent of not passing the smell test. Particularly that a large state like KA would exceed goa , pondi or delhi by such a margin. Maybe our PHC beds or other sub-district facilities were enumerated whereas they weren’t elsewhere

      1. i know for a fact that goans regularly visit belagavi for their medical needs even today. So not sure if goa is a good comparison. Even karwar (at-least in 90s) did not have that many allopathic hospitals due to lack of patients. Not many people get sick with usual bacterial/viral/seasonal flus etc due to weather. Suspect same case with goa.

  21. Could covid lead to a lifetime of autoimmune disease?
    Evidence is growing that in some people covid infections are producing autoantibodies targeting the body’s organs. If true, it could mean years of lingering sickness and misery for many.
    Aaron Ring, an immunologist at Yale, has found a wide array of autoantibodies ready to attack the body’s organs.


    Get vaccinated asap to save yourself and your loved ones especially elderly.

  22. Thanks Bhimrao, Prats for your personal stories of the seriousness of the new variant.

    Some info

    It is based on nitric oxide (NO), a natural nano molecule produced by the human body that consists of proven anti-microbial properties which directly affect the viruses that cause COVID-19.

    So can NO oxide enhancing supplements be at least half as effective. Plus some side benefits too, see next article.


    citrulline malate is a common supplement and I assume cheap.
    Read linked article completely and carefully

    L-citrulline is an amino acid that may help treat erectile dysfunction by increasing the production of nitric oxide

    Nitric oxide is needed for the muscles in the penis to relax. This relaxation allows chambers inside the penis to fill with blood so the penis becomes erect

    In one study, L-citrulline was found to improve erection hardness in 12 men with mild erectile dysfunction

    Researchers concluded that L-citrulline was less effective than prescription drugs used to treat ED, such as Viagra. Nevertheless, L-citrulline proved to be safe and well tolerated.

    Other benefits
    May Decrease Muscle Soreness
    Lower Blood Pressure
    Boost Exercise Performance
    May Help Manage Type 2 Diabetes


    Seems like a common performance enhancer.
    Nitric Oxide Booster Supplement with L Arginine, L-Citrulline


  23. There was another testing drive in my society this Saturday. The test positivity rate this time was freakin’ 26%!!!

    (It was 13% last Saturday)

    I decided to not go to the testing centre at the last moment anticipating crowds. Good decision in hindsight, though I don’t know if I can get tested this week at all.

    The government has now issued an advisory to wear masks even at home. It’s almost as if the air itself is poisoned.

    My oxygen levels have been normal but I think it’s just a matter of time before I catch it. I just hope to delay it long enough that the peak is through and some beds are available if things go south.

    The situation is real fuckall. I know of an acquaintance who is a Secretary in the government of India and was not getting a bed in Delhi. People from Delhi are going as far as Panipat to find beds. Everyone is on their own right now.

    1. Bhai thoda dard and fever hota hai 3-4 din, phir theek ho jaaoge. Don’t worry too much, even my grand mother got away quite easily. Bahut random hai suffering. Isolate yourself and don’t go to your job as Noida isn’t your home turf. Yahan dhuan-dhar logon ka jugaad nai lag raha hai. We arranged sifarishi phone calls from from someone in the CM’s office, nothing works.

    2. Ekdum fuck ho jaaye situation to let me know. I had found out out a black mein remedesivir vaala banda in Sahadra in Delhi. Baaki will try to do what I can.

        1. Bhai try these two:
          D N Associate (near bank of Baroda), Transport Nagar, Lucknow

          Also try, Mirza Mujeeb Hussain Sahab, Golden Medical Hall, 292/153, Tooriaganj, Tulsidas marg, lucknow

          Delhi wala arrangement friend of a friend of a friend of a friend…. Wala hai aur bahut zyada shady hai. Cannot vouch for him, availability bhi ajeeb hi hai. 34K ke 2 khareede the hum logon ne in dire emergency.

      1. Can i just say when i first heard the name remedesivir, my first reaction was Ram-Desi-Veer 😛

        I know, not the time, but still..

  24. The central government (Haraamis in charge for stealing, profiteering and politicking) on Monday asked the Serum Institute and Bharat Biotech to lower prices of their COVID-19 vaccines amid criticism from various states who objected to profiteering during such a major crisis.

    I guess people in the centre wanted to buy vaccines at Rs. 150 and sell it in black for 3 times the price. This scheme has now come in question due to Indian public pressure forcing the country’s looters at the level of Mughals and British to rethink.

    1. https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/editorials/centres-second-shot-covid-19-vaccine-strategy-7288877/

      “A more prudent approach would be to rely on a judicious mix of centralisation and decentralisation. Yes, some states and experts may have asked for a glorious free market for vaccines unmindful of the stocks and the science. But it is surprising the Centre took that simplistic suggestion so seriously.”

      We want federlism when we need money, want Centralization when we have to spend money.

  25. sharad pawar has had a second surgery, although it is stated to be minor. what will happen to ncp when he fades away? i feel they will merge with congress and take over the state unit.

    1. The state of congress in Maharashtra is such that it will merge with the NCP ( even after pawar) not the other way round.

      Though that can also lead to prominent ncp leaders joining SS and Bjp

    1. Thank you Cuba, every dose counts. The United States embargo against Cuba prevents it from making enough vaccine for Covid just like India. South South partnership is the way of the future!

  26. https://theprint.in/opinion/india-us-ties-not-built-on-morals-but-necessity-bidens-covid-help-delay-wont-matter/646271/

    India-US ties not built on morals, but necessity. Biden’s Covid help delay won’t matter

    “The simple truth is that neither the US nor India are particularly moral or ethical actors in international politics, though both may be, at least comparatively, better than most others. What correlates with the closer relationship is not morality but something relatively straightforward: Necessity. This is a partnership that has a very specific purpose – balancing against China. This is not a favour India is doing the US, nor the other way around. It was America’s material power that was attractive to New Delhi, not its moral power. If we are not partnering with Sweden or New Zealand – two of the many countries that could make some credible claims of being more ‘moral’ in their international conduct rather than the US or India – it is because their moral power is of little help to India in dealing with China. India’s growing partnership with the US was the result of New Delhi recognising – even now, reluctantly – that it needed the American power to balance China.

    The harsh but simple truth is that India deepened the US partnership not out of choice but because it did not have any other choice – except, may be, kowtowing to China. That’s a choice that India still has and can exercise whenever it wants if it is unhappy with the US partnership. But I doubt there are many takers in India for that.”

    1. Its hard for us to ever know if Indian diplomats are ever truly trying to maximise longterm outcomes for Indians, or just advancing their own careers. This can be said for any country one might say, but I think there is a significant difference in degree to which tacitly an american checks their cynicism at the door when representing their country. I say this because it seems indians will long consider collaboration with the US even when it makes no strategic sense. The anglo-centric indian elite can never really imagine further worsenng relations with a country in which their relatives and friends live. I say this as an american, its unfortunate because the attachment will never be mutual, and sadly there’s a natural disdain for indians which at best will only slightly attenuate as india gets richer. There’s a world outside of the US that needs to be engaged more substantively. The redlines drawn with China probably need to be reevaluated. there’s too much to gain in that relationship.

      1. The anglo-centric indian elite can never really imagine further worsenng relations with a country in which their relatives and friends live.

        I think in the long term it would benefit everyone if the top-10% savarna population of the country eventually migrated en masse to north America/Europe/Russia. I am talking over 50-100 years or so.

        I say this because:
        1. Savarnas have the highest proportion of deracinated folks and further deracinating at a very high pace.
        2. They are also losing political power to the subaltern groups. Aggregate social capital will follow soon enough.
        3. At some point, they are going to face reprisals from the subaltern groups as well. The kind of stuff that happened to Brahmins in TN is going to happen to upper castes elsewhere as well.
        4. It’d be safer to exit while you can.
        5. North America and Russia are going to expand their populations multiple-fold over the next century as a result of climate changer rendering more land habitable
        6. These places will be in want for premium mediocre middle class immigrants. I can see Canada’s population being 30 crore or more by 2150. Russia even more.

        You are seeing this happening among Ashraf Muslims. They are emigrating at a rapid pace. At least anecdotally it seems so. Someone should get data for this.

        The future of India and Hinduism lies with the subaltern groups. The future of traditional Hinduism is not in India or here only for tourism $$.

        1. @Prats I do see that already. But it works subtley. Controlling for wealth, brahmins and other upper caste friends are the least happy i know living in India, without even a hint of being bullied by shudras. Half of their families live in california anyway and even if they are quite successful, they regret not having joined them. If you’ve spent you’re whole life cultivating a difference from the common folk, it will come back and bite you when you feel like a foreigner in your own country. I have a muslim friend going through the same thing right now. Everything he emulates and has an interested in is foreign. He’s what i’d call a cosmopolitan islamicate, a bit mediteranean in sensibililty. Westernized in a very non-US centric way. Unfortunately, he finds India oppressive (the only country that will ever truly be his own), and would probably drop a few pay grades to have permanent status in europe.

      2. The Indian elite’s deference to the US might be rooted in anglo-centrism etc. But it might also be rooted in something far more pragmatic. Economic growth happens when labor meets capital. We have a lot of the former, little of the latter. And the US remains the pre-eminent holder of capital in the world, and the largest consumption market.

        Our economic relations with the US have infused hundreds of billions of much needed dollars into our economy. That we have done this without alienating Russia and getting embroiled in any international wars points to a good diplomatic outcome.

        Regarding China, an evaluation of their economy, with its low consumption (India: $ 1000, China: $ 3000, US: $ 40,000) and subsidized high exports shows that there are few synergies with our own. Demographics mean that their consumption is going to be even lower in the future. Even if we set aside all the political matters, there is very little convergence there. Poor folks are competitors, not partners.

        1. @Vikram
          Collaborating with the US is definitely a huge opportunity for the elite, where they can leverage their cultural advantage. The broader economy doesn’t have much to show in real terms for it. East Asians are the ones with huge surpluses with their pocket books open for investing in infra that could drive development (with strings attached of course). The US with its massive net external debt position couldnt be a worse role model for India. We (americans) have no interest in India solving its problems in the most efficient way possible. Its countries like S Korea that have the blueprint for recent industrialization and effciency that will be more applicable I feel. The paradigm for cooperation isn’t just seeking markets. There isn’t enough money in america to make India rich. The US model leads to the proliferation of business consultants, which India has become qute adept at replicating. Unfortunately, its not clear it leads to actual productivity.

          1. girmit, India has seen an unprecedented decrease in poverty in the last twenty years. Market access is far more important for poverty reduction than infrastructure. There is no point building roads to villages if they dont lead to a city which can pay higher prices for produce. Yes, growth has been better for those at the top, but this is even more true for places like China. I had an earlier post discussing the situation of the Chinese and Indian peasantry.

            Yes, the US is not a perfect role model. But its workers take home a far higher proportion of national income than Chinese workers, and unlike East Asian countries the general population is not skeptical of starting families.

          2. @Vikram
            I was just checking trade figures and the US is practically the only large partner that India has a surplus with. So I’ll have to concede that it is a very important relationship with some concrete benefits. I guess where we diverge in our outlook, and its something we’ve often discuss here, is I’m less convinced of the human development gains of the last 20 years of economic expansion (inflation hasnt been benchmarked reasonably), and even as someone who works in a part of the private sector thats trying to accelerate growth in rural, I don’t think well-capitalized agritech and IT enterprises are going to be as transformative as promised. I feel good infra changes mentalities and conditions people to expect more. Its almost a point of no return. Once you get a nice airport, you’ll never tolerate one that looks like a bus station. Indians have been too frugal in investment in civic amenities. I think a certain vision of the dignity of public spaces needs to be force fed. I’ve seen scores of Indians returned from working abroad who will never act and be the same once they’ve gotten the exposure. East asians and even some european countries are our friends here. They understand our diversity and density, and their business models are relevant to india. The critical path for india is trying to reach thailand levels of development in regional clusters like chennai, and maybe egypt-like in the gangetic region.

          3. I guess there is no correct answer here perhaps, and we can disagree on which strategy to follow to improve life outcomes. Perhaps a more federal India would have seen different strategies being followed, although I am skeptical. The world doesnt have much time for poor folks, this is even worse for India. I cant think of any state in India that has a Taiwan (which in turn had a Japan).

      3. “The redlines drawn with China probably need to be reevaluated. there’s too much to gain in that relationship.”

        Well i guess the author of the article was not entirely correct when he said there are no takers for Indians kowtowing to China, after all.

        Well one lives and learns.

  27. I guess people in the centre wanted to buy vaccines at Rs. 150 and sell it in black for 3 times the price.

    Evidence that the centre is buying and reselling instead of states being told to buy directly from SII? First time I’m reading this.

    And from what I understood, most of the first 2 phases was the centre getting the vaccine for 150 and distributing it among states.

    And SII also made it clear in their statement that many countries that invested in the vaccine initially got their first few batches for cheap. $2 in India, $3 and up in many other countries.

  28. “Havana has confirmed that the Cubans are quietly in negotiations with a company in Hyderabad to produce their two anti-coronavirus vaccine candidates once they receive approvals from India’s regulatory authorities.

    Cuba has a stellar record of producing vaccines for the world. Its scientists produced the first Meningitis B vaccine in the late 1980s despite the odds caused by a US embargo.

    Iran, Mexico, Venezuela and some African countries are already in negotiations to buy Cuban vaccines, the first from Latin America. Given India’s vaccine requirements, New Delhi may not be far behind because of India’s history of scientific cooperation with Cuba.

    Its leading anti-coronavirus vaccine candidate, now in Phase III trials is called Sobrena, which means sovereignty in Spanish. Another is Abdala, commemorating a revolutionary poem by national hero Jose Marti. The third vaccine undergoing trials is Mambisa, a nasal spray, named after a band of Cuban guerrillas who fought against the Spanish.

    The Finlay Institute, which Fidel set up as his country’s vaccine pioneer, has a long history of association with the Serum Institute of India in Pune. Cubans working on Sobrena at Finlay said they would have straight gone to SSI with their vaccine candidate, but think the Pune producer has its hands full. Hence, the negotiations in Hyderabad.”

    1. Good idea. Jains hereby declare themselves out of the Dharmic project. Wish you all the best with the caste issue in the US.

      Jains should highlight that they are the original woke liberals who emphasized life (including that of plants) and acceptance of multiplicity of viewpoints, 2500 years ago. We are one with the woke-liberals-leftists. Now we need to publicize this a bit more, get some PR, I mean awareness around these aspects.

      Saurav- please connect me with your Sikh American friends; if none, then Muslim American friends – we will do with the second best.


      1. Why not 3rd best? My buddhist Indo american freinds, wont do?

        If you have any sympathy for ur ex-dharmic folks, then u jains should make it ur life mission (in US) to just out woke the woke-liberals-leftists? I want the US to be veggie eating- ahimsa practicing hippie folks by the turn of the century. #Beefban

        1. Good idea, Saurav.

          For the immediate project, some ideas for the narrative; your feedback appreciated:
          – Perpetual minority in a *Brahminical* society for 3000 years (Buddhist, Muslim, Sikh trope)
          – Persecution by X/Y/Z in states A/B/C (need to dig this up) (Buddhist trope)
          – People converted from J to H 500 years ago (documented in Gujarat, Rajasthan, perhaps even Haryana) (Buddhist trope)
          -Systemic exclusion from the annals of power (Muslim, Sikh(!) trope)
          – Mocking of beliefs (Muslim, Sikh trope)
          – Discrimination and exclusions has caused intergenerational trauma and negative effects (Muslim, Dalit trope)
          – “Hindus” trying to subsume us, denying our distinct identity (Sikh trope)
          – Caste is abhorrent and our religion is against it/was a revolt against it/ whatever there is because of Hindu imposed norms (Sikh/Muslim/Christina trope)
          – We feed all (need to start doing this at our temples; ROI on 50K meals/year in the US is enormous; ask our Sikh brothers)
          – God is one (oops this one is hard because technically there is no one “God” – will need to think about a spin)
          – Live and let live (this one is real – now need to tie this to XLM, Xophobia (except Hinduphobia because as our own Hindu elites Priyamvada Gobar etc have declared, it is not real)

          1. My feedback

            1. Not 3000 years , 5000 years. u selling us short bro.
            2. U are persecuted all over India, since there is no veg-state in India. You survived in Gujrat, just like the parsis ,so there is already a precedent.
            3. We can invent a Aurangzeb-esque hindu king who went around slashing nude jain monks. Who’s gonna verify? Trushcke can help u find one.
            4. No Jain PM till today, even though we have had sikh PM, muslim president in India. So more woke-points
            5. Do i need to say more….
            6. Self explnantory
            7. Just copy paste from our sikh bros. Exclude the ‘JAAAAAAT IS BEEST-EST’ part.
            8. Pretty sure u folks can handle the logistics.
            9. Of course we can spin it. Doesn;t matter much though.
            10. Unless u start having in house Jain woke-sters disputing that , u should be good on that front.

  29. The harsh but simple truth is that India deepened the US partnership not out of choice but because it did not have any other choice – except, may be, kowtowing to China. That’s a choice that India still has and can exercise whenever it wants if it is unhappy with the US partnership. But I doubt there are many takers in India for that.

    I am allergic to “TINA” arguments. It’s invariably invoked by people who seek to break domestic opposition. The problem is the framing. Why should India be kowtowing to the US *or* China? Why not neither of them?

    I agree with the author that the Chinese are a threat, because China idiotically chose to throw away substantial goodwill built up between Xi and Modi for a few parched patches of desert land that nobody fundamentally wants, effectively breaking a de facto truce of 45 years at the LoAC. But while China may be a strategic threat, nobody sane thinks there will be a full-scale war.

    Previous commentators spoke of the ingrained anglo-centric bias among Indian policy makers. I think this fundamentally a reflection of the deep integration of Indian elites into Western discourse at its root, which just “seeps out” into policymakers by happenstance. I don’t think it’s easy to fix this. What it entails is a large class of what is known as “comprador elites” in India. A similar curse exists in Latin America. It makes it trivial for Western countries to cause a lot of trouble for these countries and exert substantial cultural influence over their elites. Even so-called “right-wingers” are not immune to this. Modi still deeply cares how he is portrayed in the Western press. A few days ago he commanded his babus to find out how to improve the EIC’s democracy metric. Why would he even care? The EIC is run by the economist and is filled with UK deep state assets. It’s basically a propaganda outlet.

    South Asia as a whole is in a depressing place. It should be trading and collaborating but they’re all in isolated silos from each other. Pakistan is China’s bitch and India is becoming pliant to the US. Sri Lanka is a Chinese debt coloby by now. Only Bangladesh seems to be able to balance the superpowers against each other.

  30. I think there India’s internal poltics (and by extension diaspora) would prevent Indians from getting help during this crisis


    “Sewa International has been flooding Facebook and Instagram with ads in recent weeks. They are explicitly aligned with the RSS which had explicit ties with Nazis in the 1930s. Hitler rejected them cos he didn’t think Indians were Aryan enough.”

    But then with woke elites like us, we reap what we sow. And Ordinary Indians who dont have a dog in this fight will suffer.

    But it will also be intresting when a big disaster hits India next time around under a liberal/left govt. Will the ‘Hindu’ diaspora forgive and forget?

  31. Foreign media people are getting a big hard-on looking at pictures of funeral pyres. So ekjotik!

    I had seen foreigners stand and gawk shamelessly at cremations on the Harishchandra Ghat, Varanasi. Relatives are crying and uninvited 50 year old Harper from Iowa in those stupid psychedelic print pyjamas would be clicking photos. Not being the perpetually offended-kind, expecting no better from curious tourists and knowing that Indians will return the favor in cultural-exchange by incessantly asking for selfies I couldn’t care less.

    Among religions, Buddhism is too clean/sanitized, at scale Hindus alone offer Gora people the guilty-pleasure of looking at complete heathens.

    USA is just another country. They didn’t put us in this mess, they are themselves in a mess. I don’t believe in any policy change in India-US relations. At best Americans delayed their anyways paltry help by a few days. Partisans here are looking for anyone to blame but Modi, their CMs and themselves. Modi’s pubic-louse, ZeeTV’s Sudhir Chaudhary was calling out and shaming IPL players, everyone but the naked emperor himself.

    This mess is entirely on Indians, we need more doctors, more MD seats, more nurses… How this will happen idk, understanding our languorous national character, I know that nothing will change. I do not want to rant on Indians being compulsive tax-thieves, disorganized, unplanned, blah, blah,…

    The situation here is really bad. 10s of people known to me or my immediate family have died in the past one week alone. The official death toll is complete BS.

    1. Agree on Modi /bjp being a big letdown. What do you think is the way forward? Anyone else in the existing opposition feels a step back (if you can imagine after this fiasco). How do you prevent any new aap-like party being dominated by someone like kejriwal?

      1. Modi could not have reacted any better. I mean you could think he should have been better prepared, this-that but ask yourself honestly would Congress have done any better? Are Indians the type of people who could have pulled it off?

        National elections BJP will (should) win again. State elections in UP they might (will?) loose.

        AAP is the only party I have ever given money to. I like Kejriwal, the only people I will actively work to not see in power are communist parties (obviously!), Rahul Gandhi (unworthy), the likes of P Chidambram with their micromanaging instincts, convoluted economics and regional/communal agenda against north/hindus (DMK, AIMIM and Jagan Reddy). I have no issues with BJP loosing and SS/NCP/SP/Biju/JMM/even-BSP and TMC or congress without Rahul as PM winning.

        Modi is a megalomaniac, his one single talent is to get majorities in the parliament. He relies on others to do something with all this power. Partly my anger is on the gutter snipes (Rajat Sharma, Arnab, Rubika, Sudheer, Sardhana) for not speaking the truth because Modi’s dick is stuck in their throats. I know Indians too well to fear authoritarianism but the news(entertainment) people on TV are the worst offenders. At least say it out loud that Modi fucked this up! It need not be true but at least have some professionalism to say ‘Did Modi fuck this up?’

        1. I wouldn’t say UP is lost cause for BJP. Depends on how they handle things now. And dont think BJP can win nationally without UP anyway.

          Also y do u feel DMK is anti Hindu? Isn’t Tamil Nadu the most-est Hindu-est region there is in all eternity?
          At least i have been told so.

          1. I get elections wrong all the time but situation in UP has no precedent. RT-PCR tests are not being administered to people without symptoms. Rapid test results are not being recorded. Story of Yogi being some able administrator has been completely destroyed. People are cursing him in the wards and on the streets. There will be heavy anti-incumbency.

            Truth be told it is all pointless. I have seen Yogi and his ministers speak, I have seen SP’s ministers speak, both lack any real fire or vision other than being in power. They are regular uncle ji’s with regular BS on things like hindi, gau-mata, desh-seva, etc.

            None of them matter, none of them have much to contribute, just noise. Things will not really change here. This is the reason I feel stoked about physical infrastructure like metros, and expressways, rail, IT park, big-hospitals. Improvements in rest of the fields have a (snail-like) speed of their own far away from UP government’s priority or vision.

            A simple test would be trying and getting land from UP SIDC and see how it goes.

            Most political commentary is chutiyapa. If there is no money being generated via industry there will be no money being spent. Money is the lubricant that keeps things moving. In my experience there is so much nepotism and insider-hirings in US job market. Perhaps much more than Indian job market. All these vices of US are hidden because they are rich. Pretentious Indian lefties who have no experience making anything work in India don’t see this as the central problem and instead devise ways to optimally partition what is a tiny pie.

        2. +1 on modi communicating what he is doing/not doing. Similarly what is lacking from states (both opposition and bjp). And this has to be done in press conferences with both hostile and friendly media. Not stupid Mann ki baat.
          Delhi HC comments to Kejri government.
          Allahabad HC comments to yogi government.
          Modi did not choose kejri, people did. As much as it is modi fault, having people like kejri compounds the problem with last mile delivery.
          I had my doubts about yogi but this crisis confirmed them .
          Modi needs to stop being insecure and let people in states choose competent leaders. Sometimes they will choose someone like kejri but that can be taken care by 2 way communication.

  32. https://twitter.com/sibinmohan/status/1387238667362521089

    “Entire thread is worth reading — about the public/private enterprise in the US to help India, but guess where things are getting stuck? Indian PM wants control of, and credit for, everything. Hope the US doesn’t agree to it!”

    Commie Dravidians would rather people die than Modi get credit . I mean which country has a central govt co-ordinating relief effort ?

  33. Gaurav Sabnis would be a good Browncast guest, although I don’t think he’ll come anywhere near the likes of Mukunda or Razib.

    He seems to think that he has uniquely divined the knowledge that India is a poor country and the Indian ‘middle class’ that he grew up in is actually the upper middle class.

    1. In India everyone is an expert in everything apart from the actual field they are into. Duggal sahab.

      1. What are you even talking about?
        He was profiled by Wall Street Journal. Must be a genius.

        1. I mean why wouldnt he be? The only person who moved from India to pursue a Phd in US. Wow, just wow!

          In Search Of Gold , We Lost Diamond, if u ask me.

          1. @lurker

            LoL! Don’t say that! The tenure-track market is cut-throat. Yours truly might end up in something like it too.

          2. So we will be seeing Sabnis 2.0 in the near future? Just dont be as insufferable as him. Thats the only request.

    2. I’d be really surprised if someone like him ever agrees to come on BP. He’s one of those clowns who can only thrive in their echo chamber. He proudly talks about ghosting and blocking people (even those who aren’t trolls).

      Anyone that isn’t 100% on board with him is just a “passive Sanghi”, lmao.

      That being said, would be fun to watch some far-left Indian (or at least diaspora) talk to Razib and Mukunda.

      What about @Roy on this blog? At least as a start.

      1. This reminded me, i was on twitter space with that group last weekend, where the host proudly declared at the start, that they want the space to be an echo chamber. LOL

      2. Sabnis is not far left by any stretch of imagination. He has got the most normie Biden-esque views out there.

        1. LOL, scratch the surface, all of them are woke-commies.

          Don’t know, man. I have started to notice that there’s some day light between the wokes and the hard core commies, who are annoyed with identity politics.

          As much as I dislike commies, I can still tolerate talking to them. But if you garnish them with some woke then I will probably shoot my brains out before I sit with them for an hour.

          This guy teaches business and marketing. I doubt he’ll stan the Bernie agenda. He’ll be out of a job.

          Also, does anyone else think he looks like a Bob Biswas wannabe?

        2. Lets not on his looks, has an imminent punchable face.

          On Bernie love


          “I know I’ve been very critical of Sen Sanders since the 2016 cycle. But this time, he was absolutely flawless. I know a lot of punditry will be like, if you had not hugged socialists, you’d have won Florida. Without realizing that it’s not a dirty word to everyone elsewhere.”

          Also he teaches business and marketing at Stevens, its like teaching Mechanical at Ghatkopar Institute of Tech. Lot of Bong-commies i know who stan Mamta/Left in India, teach business in US.

          1. He is a business professor at Stevens Institute? I had thought engineering – he is even more low down on the ladder than I’d thought.
            Ghatkopar Institute of Technology is probably still overselling it. By US standards, he is the equivalent of a Marketing professor at something like a Sushila Devi Agarwal College, Bhiwani.

      3. LOL, scratch the surface, all of them are woke-commies. Biden for them , was just a compromise candidate. All of them are Sanders-Warren groupies.

        If US could sanction India, they would support that in a heart-beat. Something i am not sure a Biden-esque guy would support.

  34. For folks who work in tech, what do you make of the recent BaseCamp decision to ‘ban’ political discussions in office groups?

    Do employees in Indian offices of Google etc too discuss politics like their American counterparts?
    I have not worked in an SV styled well funded startup for 5 years now so I am admittedly a bit out of touch. But when I used to, no one really discussed politics.

    I might have been the most ‘political’ person in the office back then. But it seems a switch has been flipped. I have lost all interest in discussing politics while it’s now become quite the thing to do.

  35. Questions to those who may be in the know –
    1) Has there been any accounting of the money that has gone into the PM Cares fund?
    2) It’s hard to dis-aggregate first and second dose vaccinations, is the number of first doses increasing or has it plateau’d out?

    Someone here raised the point about India not having enough MBBS doctors, and it anecdotally makes sense. It is said that there isn’t a single decently-sized hospital anywhere in the UK without at least a third of its doctors Indian, and even senior Indian doctors are willing to take up training positions just to be able to work here. I’ve even come across Indian doctors working in small town Germany and Czechia. I imagine the brain drain from the medical sector must be enormous.

    1. Has there been any accounting of the money that has gone into the PM Cares fund?

      No, it is a public charitable trust – disclosure is at will.

    2. “India not having enough MBBS doctors”

      This is true. But it eludes the more fundamental question. India does not have enough money. It costs a lot to train a medical doctor and there is a lot of demand for such labor in richer countries. And in India’s case, the English proficiency is an added bonus.

      Long term, the solution to our problems is to get richer, pay high quality workers better and have more tax revenue to provide a better quality of life.

  36. @thewarlock
    People connected to BJP and the Centre have been caught black-marketeering covid supplies. Fadnavis is himself involved in it.

    1. Print: “How BJP tried to buy remdesivir directly from firm & gaps in Thackeray govt fanned controversy”
    2. Indian Express “Young kin gets vaccine, Devendra Fadnavis says ‘distant’ link, must follow rules”

    Purchase arbitrage has now been allowed by the Centre; what a great way to make money at the cost of lives! Some supplies will magically become bad, others would be distributed on paper.

    Furthermore, SII CEO says as states are procuring by giving smaller order, vaccines will be more expensive. While for the centre, it is half the cost. But, why couldn’t Centre buy vaccines and give it to States? States can then reimburse Centre money or the money gets deducted from GST.

    All over the world, whether in the US, the UK, Canada, etc., government procurement is one. Distribution is done by local govts by a plan submitted to the centre as, e.g., in the US. That is how u save money and lives. Or if your intention is to do profiteering, then the proposal makes sense.

    1. On Fadnavis , (2) is not defensible, but (1) seems more complex than what thought earlier.


      “”60,000 vials of #Remdesivir arranged by the #BJP were intended for the Maharashtra Government.
      The entire process was done following all rules, with due permissions and with with genuine intentions to help the citizens.” – FDA Cabinet Minister Dr.
      @DrShingnespeaks ji”

      “Also, why couldn’t Centre buy vaccines and give it to States? States can then reimburse Centre money or the money gets deducted from GST.”

      On this are u seriously joking when u say states reimburse the center? When has it happened last time in 70 years? And money getting deducted from GST? The center is already paying over and above (and will pay till 2022) to the states.

      The states had one job. To fix their health infra till the vaccination are being done. But even their they failed miserably and just harangued the center (along with their commie-liberal cronies in media) to give them ‘federalism’ over vaccination.

      So yeah now they got it, if u want power, then cough up the money as well. You think u (states) can handle vaccination better than center, time to show it.

  37. The trash called Modiji aka Supreme leader’s priority:

    1. Construct a new parliament building and waste Rs 22000 crore.
    Bloomberg: Modi’s Sprawling Delhi Makeover Fuels Anger in Virus-Hit India
    Prime Minister Narendra Modi is rebuilding part of New Delhi, but the mammoth undertaking is drawing fire because it’s estimated to cost billions at a time when the nation is grappling with a devastating coronavirus outbreak and the economic fallouts of local shutdowns.
    The massive project — which local media have estimated could cost about 200 billion rupees ($2.7 billion) — has grown more controversial as India’s coronavirus cases have exploded. On social media, some questioned the need for spending on new government structures at a time when the nation is dealing with severe fallouts from the pandemic.

    2. Na Kaam karunga na karne dunga: Stop MPLADS funds so that MPs cannot help public even if they want to. While Modiji and his cohort can splurge and waste as much money as they want, no one can do anything to help the needy.
    NewIndianexpress: Opposition leaders slam Modi government for construction work of Central Vista during Delhi lockdown.
    “Why are we in the Opposition criticising the Central Vista project? It is a very, very important project! Modi must have a peacock garden built next to his new office and Shah must have a verandah next to his office for his three pet poodles ( also known as the EC).

    “This is why the central Vista project is needed. We, the silly opposition, want the Rs 20,000 crores being spent for central Vista to be used instead to vaccinate 80 per cent of the people of India. Priorities?”
    “They are heartless ruthless pair of Twins. They are not releasing our MP LAD fund through which we can extend help in our Constituencies. Central Vista and new Parliament building could have waited but Modi ji give more funds to fight COVID, release our MPLAD fund,”

    1. @Bhimrao
      A doctor told me that remdesivir doesn’t work against covid. What are your thoughts on this?

      1. Yaar, no clue. If the doctor prescribes it, then one will go to any length to get it.

        1. Remdivisir, Ivermectin, HCQ are all repurposed drugs – there is really no pharmacological basis for their use. In trials, they show some advantages over placebo but really no quantified advantages in double bind controlled experiments.


          I saw some SOS’s on LinkedIn for Remdivisir today. People are clinging to any form of hope. The patients of the diseases that Remdivisir really treats are the actual sufferers.

          Use of these drugs provides a gain-of-function environment for the virus to mutate faster. One of the speculations now gaining ground is that some of the Indian variants represent a newer wave of drug resistant forms. Even though there is no drug to treat it! Indians will self medicate to the extent that it starts creating a newer set of problems.

  38. kerala is voting for ldf as hindus see cpm as their party. essentially all cpm cms have been hindus. ldf also successfully dog whistled that udf is now being controlled by muslim league. bjp will eat into the remainder of udf vote.
    the question is where will the christians go next?

    1. Kerela Christians invented the misnomer “Love Jihad” for what is actually trafficking/rape jihad. Islamofundamentalism is rising throughout the South, as evidenced by all the ISIS recruits. Most likely they will ally with CPI. Hindutuva threatens their ability to get new followers. Radical Islam has that component but also threatens those who already are. Therefore the prior is more benign to them.

    1. I frankly think she has lost her sheen. There are so many copy-cat Roys now that i hardly missed her. Not like the 2000s when she was the only one holding the woke-left flag high.

  39. Exit polls from TN, Assam, Kerala and WB.

    Congress alliance will crush the BJP alliance in TN. CPM looks set to extend its rule in Kerala. BJP fought very well in WB but TMC will probably clinch it. Assam will go to BJP.

    Not much surprised me except the crushing margin in TN. Are the current guys really that incompetent or was the previous election just a freak accident/outlier? Usually anti-incumbancy is driven by poor performance, but TN is doing well. Their growth rate has been above the India-average for the past decade, manufacturing is 25% of GSDP and could rise more. Given these economic facts, the gigantic loss of the BJP’s alliance looks strange to me.

    1. BJP is a non entity in TN. TN results are not an outlier. Any party which wins the state , electorally crushes the opponent, every election.

      Also the state politics never had much to do with performance. The state has been in top 5 states in India economically through out the last 2 decades, with both DMK and AIADMK ruling it. Bit like how Kerala or Rajasthan politics operate.

    2. \Congress alliance will crush the BJP alliance \
      Congress Alliance in TN?? It is really DMK alliance in which Congress is piggybacking by shamelessly prostrating themslevs to DMK

  40. Regarding the discussion about Modi’s speech and the neech back and forth (posting this here as it is a bit off topic for the other thread, and the author is high-strung)

    Yes, it was a dog whistle, but it was also direct response to being called Neech by a Macaualyputra like Mani Aiyer. Who is neeech or not is a matter of perspective. Congressis/Liberals ruled India for 7 decades glorifying poverty while not even providing basic infrastructure to the people of India, are the true Neech of the country in my view. They have sophisticated exteriors, have good talking points, know how to fake empathy for the poor but their actions speak way louder, and they were all geared towards keeping power in their hands, gatekeeping and enjoying unearned privileges, while paying lip service to the welfare of the poor. True Neech kaum if there is any in India.

  41. Bengal will remain a communist dump with practically negative real growth rate. Absolute disaster. Illegal immigration will go on unchecked. What a disaster.

  42. Family of one of graduate school-mate got duped into paying 80K for two vials of fake Remdesivir in Ghaziabad. Mera bharat mahaan.

    Modi is .1% of India’s problems, main problem is the fucking people. My own folks genuinely believe in their heart of hearts that (GST) tax evasion is not stealing. I have a friend from school who thinks it is funny that she shows up at her government office at 11 AM and leaves at 3PM with a tea break and lunch in between. Socially celebrated corruption everywhere…

    Other than family backing everyone is out there to get you here. Went to check on a drunk guy lying next to a nullah, my father mumbled some nonsense about why get into this trouble, none of your business, blah, blah…

    If you die here people won’t spare a second to take the wallet off your dead body. Most of this is not due to extreme poverty either. It is just that we are an asshole (but non-violent) people.

  43. //Modi is .1% of India’s problems, main problem is the fucking people.My own folks genuinely believe in their heart of hearts that (GST) tax evasion is not stealing. I have a friend from school who thinks it is funny that she shows up at her government office at 11 AM and leaves at 3PM with a tea break and lunch in between. //

    The same people become very law abiding when they go to places like UAE or Qatar, because the threat of deportation and losing their livelihood looms large all the time. Don’t blame it on the people when bad behavior is rarely punished but rather incentivized while local culture is geared towards fraud, especially defrauding the government. Government knows the nature of its citizenry, they dropped the ball by encouraging bad behavior. This took the virus seriously last year, they did not do so this year and the results are horrific.

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