241 thoughts on “Open Thread – 07/16/2021 – Brown Pundits”

      1. ” If yes then woke brahmins (especially Tamil, Mallu and Bengali) living abroad must be excommunicated from Hinduism. ”

        Well what do we know Bhim, we are supposedly the cuck N-Indians vs the chad Hindus of South and East…

      1. Not much convinced. The chinese state despite the bombast of its papers and diplomats is pragmatic and hard nosed. If a dam has to be built over the bodies of million chinese engineers it would do that. Its not US or the west which cares much about its folks. Everything is at the service of a larger goal. So both trade with India, as well infra in Pak will go on, notwithstanding what India does either on Ladakh or in Pakistan.

        We sometimes forget that its also the nation of the cultural revolution.

  1. @Vikram

    I saw a comment in the previous thread insinuating that the ISRO’s competence was on the wane because they didn’t reply to an RTI about Chandrayaan-2’s failure. This sounds exactly like the kind of “technological illiteracy” that plagues Indian media. And I also don’t have any doubt that that you are just parroting some piece from a low level journo.

    The conclusion to a RTI query was never/is not a goalpost for competence. The right to redact overrides the RTI Act. Read it up.

    If you asked the FMECA of the 4680 battery in an email to Tesla, they will politely ask you to f**k off. If you asked the FMEA modes for the latest photolithography methods at ASML, you will get the same reaction. These are the accumulated design competence of dozens of years of research.

    The landing thrusters and the gain signals algorithm to allow the vehicle to brake in outer space has dual-use consequences. The same technology is used in MIRV warheads for braking in the earth’s outer atmosphere. Only a handful of nations possess these capabilities. Even a small reaction to how it failed can adequately present enough info for the discerning observer. For the longest time, ISRO was on the dual control list of most technology regimes like MTCR, Wassenaar etc.

    Coming to the failure itself – ISRO has stated enough information to allow a reasoned observer to work out what happened roughly. In the initial design stages, the craft had only four landing thrusters at the four corners. In one FMEA run, there was a significant probability of the corner thrusters creating a backdraft of moon soil to the belly of the craft while landing.

    So they switched the design to a 5 engine one – with the extra one at the center. While landing, the central thruster alone would work – and the four corner thrusters would shut off. Therefore any backdraft would be propelled away from the vehicle.

    Four corner thrusters are always better than one central for axis adjustment – so they did not (or) perhaps they did – factor this in. Whatever the scenario, they miscalculated. So the craft faced a non-recoverable loss of orientation in the final stages. Pretty sure, they now know – it was a costly FMECA!!!

    1. Seriously man, are you trying to argue that India’s geo-strategic rivals will be able to gain a military advantage by reading FAC reports ?

      In previous mission failures, which by the way involved the much more critical cryogenic engine, the reports were made public. I am sure the authors of the reports and relevant ISRO staff are smart enough to say whats needed without revealing any critical information.

      You gave the example of Tesla and ASML, those are private companies accountable to their shareholders. They exist to make a profit. This is not the case for ISRO. It is funded by tax payer revenue of a democratic country. ISRO’s job here is to lay out best practices, and set an example for the rest of Indian industry on how to analyze and fix failures. Not hide behind the cloak of national security.

      1. To imply that – a taxpayer funded organisation – is creating open-source technology for the benefit of everyone is not new. There have been RTI’s filed for other classified stuff as well.

        The second thing you don’t understand is that this is a loss of craft situation where the debris are not accessible. Somewhat similar to MH370 – there cannot be a technical conclusion beyond the fact that the craft is lost and mission has failed. Almost all the major structural components of the failed GSLV were recovered from the sea. And all major data parameters were being logged until moment of failure.

        In contrast, the Chandrayaan 2 was lost at the fag end of “15 minutes of terror” – when the craft goes into autonomous mode to land. Every conclusion is only a probabilistic statement.

        Again ISRO has released several pieces of informed conjecture on what could have happened. It is in the public domain. Whatever I have written about thruster design is from ISRO only. So not sure why do you keep assuming non-release of info (??)

        1. The discussion here is about a break of precedent regarding the release of FAC reports to the public. You seem to be implying that the details of this particular failure justify the secrecy, but like I pointed out, earlier reports dealing with even more sensitive technologies have been released without any adverse reactions. Experienced, competent public organizations understand their public role beyond simply meeting targets set by politicians or bureaucrats.

          1. You have to stop the sermonizing in order to listen. NASA routinely places many aspects of its space missions (RTGs, space station, payloads etc) outside the purview of the FOIA. ISRO are the competent authority in deeming what is permissible and what is not.

          2. @Ugra, Vikram:
            What do you guys think about Chinese HSR? The tickets are not exactly cheap on these things, I had used Shinkansen in Tokyo and the only big benefit was just walking into a train station instead of the hassle at the airport, in many cases it is cheaper to take the plane.

            I shit my pants looking at the pace of their HSR construction.

            Nothing came out of the Train 20, Train 18 was too overweight. No news after Titagarh’s Firema acquisition either. Do you guys see any chance we will have our own bogey design in future? Standardizing is good but LHB won’t take us to HSRs. Bogey and traction are the hard parts, rest of the things I think we can pull off.

          3. This is one thing where I think it is about cracking it for the first time, making the first one is difficult. Then we will kill it. We do manufacture foreign railway designs very efficiently and entirely within India.

            We have cracked metro rail, we already have all the non-Japanese big ones Alstom, Bombardier and Hyundai(BEML) manufacturers making in India.

            I have used subway systems in Europe, Japan and the US. Our systems are just as good and are built very economically too.

            At some point I expect Titagarh Wagons and maybe even Medha Servos to become really big in manufacturing rolling stock. For HSR Railway has set up centers in IIT Kgp and Varanasi, but I don’t think hard core engineering design can be done by academia, as there is no serious money available. Even if we copy/import Japanese/French rolling stock the main expense is in civil works, building concrete track beds, piling, earthmoving etc which cannot be avoided.

          4. Big difference between HSR like Shinkansen and maglev.
            I think maglevs are too expensive, but HSR has a lot of practical value. It is way better experience (faster regional journeys, cheaper, more convenient) than a plane ride.

            I remember after the success of the Delhi metro rail project in 2009 a now a whole lot of new metro rail projects popped up in every reasonably large city in India. So this stuff can change fast. Have a look at the dates here..

            I hope India doesn’t bungle the Mumbai -Ahmedabad Shinkansen project.

            The other two approved Shinkansen projects are:

            Delhi–Amritsar high-speed rail corridor
            Chennai–Mysuru high-speed rail corridor

            And there are a bunch more proposed. Eventually I think India has the density to have a lot of HSR lines. Like Europe or East Asia.

            Stuff like Maglev and Hyperloop are expensive pipedreams imo.

  2. https://twitter.com/TVI_PK/status/1415727133910044677

    “As India implements its Plan B and sends fresh military support to Kabul, Indian pilots-operated ‘Afghan Air Force’ is planning to launch attacks on Pakistani targets in Balochistan in the name of hitting ‘Taliban forces’ in Spin Boldak in order to spark off Pak-Afghan tension.”

  3. “How can we tell Taliban to stop attacking now when they are winning. They won’t listen to us.. time to talk to them was was before..”

    Imran Khan to Ghani and others. Troll mode on lol

    Negotiations are not conducted from the point of weakness.. only surrender.. and Taliban see victory, they won’t be giving too many concessions in dialogue.

  4. I encountered some twitter pak nationalists- half of their tweets were basically showcasing indus valley as a land with more years of buddhist predominance than the gangetic plains.

    Dont they realize that all the places associated with the Buddha are located in the “gangu” plains-
    Kushinagar, Sarnath, Lumbini, Vaishali, Rajgir, Shravasti.

    1. Online Pak Nationalism is claiming all that is good about Indian Civilization as theirs and all that is bad as that of only the Gangetic Plain. Then there is the underlying component of racial hatred and Birdari Ethnonationalism. The final element ranges from soft radical islamoapologism to straight up radical Islam

    1. I remember reading Babur torched Lahore. But then maybe Pakistanis consider themselves projeny of Babur’s army and not people of Lodi’s empire. Maybe the sacking would make it to the climactic scene. This or the sabzkhor Kafirs who discount geostrategy being outmaneuvered and defeated in Khanwa.

      If Indians can lionize Akbar in movies and on TV and not Pratap why can’t the Pakistanis do the same?

      1. “sabzkhor Kafirs who discount geostrategy being outmaneuvered and defeated”

        if our dal-khor bros (pak punjabis) manage to dominate Central Asia its actually a nice little revenge for babur’s sack of Lahore.

        God speed Pakistani bros go avenge your ancestors.

      2. pakistan has named its missiles after gauri, gaznawi and babur. however some uber-ghazis like taimur and abdali are conspicuous by their absence. will the resident geo-strategists please throw some light on this egregious act of omission?

          1. there you go. abdali – check!
            taimur is still missing. is it because taimur beat the shit out of ottomans, and he is not a palatable name in pakstan’s new BFF turkey?

          2. Taimur fucked up Iran and Turkey more than India. So nah. He is only awarded with baby boy names, but missiles? Not worthy

  5. Ajai Shukla, the best defence reporter in India, is now telling us the Chinese have renewed their aggression at the LoAC.


    Apparently there was a lull, and even a partial withdrawal, during the winter of 2020-21, but now there’s an ongoing re-escalation. The Chinese have now also deployed at least one, possibly two, S-400 anti-aircraft regiments. So far, India has had regional air superiority, but this would now be drastically reduced.

    I struggle to see what China gains from this. Modi genuinely tried to reach out. Alienating India was a horrific owngoal from Beijing and what do they have to show for it? A few rocks that they don’t even control fully. Anyone who thinks the Chinese are geopolitical masterminds isn’t paying attention. They seem experts in picking fights with their neighbours. I don’t buy the “Chinese Century” hype.

    1. That Ajai Shukla guy is not exactly neutral or bipartisan observer.
      Re China behavior, I am more inclined to Adam Townsend theory that current events show a confluence between Chinese interest and those of western elites. India is a wrinkle in those plans. Hence needs to be boxed in.

    2. @principia

      Ajai Shukla, the best defence reporter in India….

      Sounds like someone downgraded the definition of “best” and “reporter” to make this line possible.

    3. China has made this assessment that India is the US camp and there can be no rapprochement. So its taking its gains as when it can. A good relation with India has no tangible benefit for Chinese. Trade will go on , in the same lop sided manner, or else India suffers more than China.

      Right now India’s border infrastructure is still catching up, and within a decade it can , if not defeat than deter, the Chinese advancement in the North. So its trying to occupy whatever terrain it can, the spaces earlier which both sides used to just patrol. Especially after Doklam where India entered Chinese claimed land, they have been trying to fortify their positions. Wont put too much onus on S-400 deployed and all. Its mostly show of strength from either side.

      1. Saurav
        First thanks for the Gupta interview from a couple of months back. Had computer issues etc.

        Regards India China border, a theory (dont have the link) is that China is goading India to spend money on defense. Money much needed by India for its economy and social well being.

        A similar situation is unfolding in the US, though of their own making. Spending Trillions for wars and to impose “human rights” with billion dollar deficits . Meanwhile, infrastructure in US is aging and social cohesion is falling apart.

        Now pulling out of Afghanistan and rumblings of pulling out of Iraq.
        Is it
        a) Because costs are too high
        b) Getting ducks in a row for big one
        c) Or both above

        1. Well aware of the China’s goading theory, there is also this sister theory that China wants India to commit to land forces, so that it does not invest in its Navy to help the QUAD. I am not convinced by either though.

          I don’t think China’s is worried that India will catch up to it. Especially if there is really a war either in East China’s seas or even in Malacca strait, China’s bet is its not much of India concern. India’s concern is more or less its boundaries and a bit of Indian ocean. What i think China doubts, is that India will take advantage in its West (highly unlikely and too adventurous for Indian standards, but still) when its fighting or engaged its East(which is still China’s primary concern). That coupled with Tibet and Xinkiang , plus its thin forces, is the reason of its actions. It wants to solidify its position in the West (Especially areas not demarcated and just patrolled) , so that it can fully concentrate on East.

      2. That seems like a short term tactical gains plan rather than a long term strategy. Backs up what principia said earlier. Getting your high margin tech companies booted out of the largest and fastest growing media market does not sound very smart. Despite all the razzle dazzle infrastructure, consumption in Chinese cities is only about 1.5 times that of Indian ones, and a fraction of that in America.

    1. @thewarlock, life’s too short to get hung up about these things. It will resolve on its own in time.

    1. Yeah but they should have picked on something else than buddhism to do so-
      It is literally the most gangetic religion to ever exist.

    2. Modern day urban Indians (especially Saurav’s ‘more Hindu’ N. Indians and Gujaratis) dont like Gandhi either. I think a big part of the revulsion in India also stems from his appearance and lifestyle.

      1. He was creepy. And his ahimsa stuff went overboard. This is coming from someone raised and around a lot of Jains

      2. I don’t think he is revulsed. He is appreciated as one would appreciate a saint. Good guy but nothing to take inspiration from. Folks are more inspired by macho figures and he wasn’t one.

  6. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57817614

    anecdotes of US based academic kaushik basu on his brief stint in Indian government.

    the book falls into a general pattern of memoirs where some indian american academics take leave of their profession to serve in Indian govt, enjoy the perks and privileges while there, and as soon as they return to US, they diss on indian govt in some memoir.

    the whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. one anecdotes stands out in particular. apparently there was a bathroom reserved for super elites of power pyramid in the ministry of finance. exactly 3 individuals had the privilege to use this bathroom, and prof basu was initially not one of them. now prof basu claims that his staff, despite his protests, waged a battle to get him the privilege of using this power bathroom.

    hard to believe that the staff would fight for the right of their boss to relieve himself in some charmed commode, a pleasure that was denied to themselves. and even if the story is true, couldnt prof basu have set an example by insisting on keep using the general use bathrooms?

    games people play.

    1. “hard to believe that the staff would fight for the right of their boss to relieve himself in some charmed commode, a pleasure that was denied to themselves”

      I think if u would know India’s babu-dom slavish displays then ‘waging a battle’ is actually quite meh. That his staff didn’t murder someone to get him access to the bathroom is surprising.

  7. https://www.yahoo.com/news/asian-americans-elite-colleges-drop-215953193.html
    “If standardized test scores were the only factor evaluated in admissions, 21% of Asian American students attending these institutions would be displaced, along with 39% of non-Asian American students.”
    Misleading title. And above though is the key stat ^

    The funny thing is that they looked at 91 of the most selective schools. Narrow it down to the Top 25 USWNR. That’s where it gets more interesting. Also, not all schools even release test scores without a court order. Not sure how good data was obtained. But I have to look into that.

    Also, I encourage everyone to read into California’s original affirmative action push. And how Berkely turned way more Asian American pretty much overnight as Asians threatened the Democratic party with Republican voting drives. The era for giving people points on standardized tests for their race must end.

    Support poor kids with free school lunches, summer camps, SAT classes, etc. But don’t reduce standards. And help for the poor will disproportionately help minorities. Whereas, the current system just favors the upper class minorities, many of whom are more “privileged” than so called poor members of the “historically oppressor racial groups.”

  8. Guys, Abhinav Prakash (who often hosts Razib on his vlog and has been on Brownpundits podcast) has joined BJYM (youth wing of BJP) as National Vice President.

    We have been listening to future minister of the country 🙂 . Would be interesting to see if he continues with his vlog and if he will come back on Brownpundits Podcast again.

    1. also earlier guru prasad (paswan) joind b j p.
      it appears the middle class dalits do not find b j p abhorring. one half of dalit community is with b j p in karnataka.

  9. Watching El Cid on Amazon Prime. Though its about El Cid, i find the Jiminez dynasty intrigue far more interesting than El Cid’s heroics. Especially Alfonso (who i had read mostly as scheming king) is portrayed in far more sympathetic light.

    A good show, if someone is interested in Reconquista era.

    1. All these project management people, all these transportation analysts, all these urban planners and all these construction managers and yet… Look at how pathetic is the California’s High speed railway. America is the losing side. Can’t blame Kissinger for this, America just can’t build anything big at a justifiable cost. The efforts being wasted on stupid stunts like Hyperloop… God these people are stupid.

  10. every analyst is writing that taliban in kabul will be bad for india in kashmir as they can come here and attack. is our defence so weak ? if it becomes clear that taliban/ afghan terrorists are involved say in a terrorist act, what prevents india from hitting back at them by missiles? at least it will not be like what was 20 years back.
    india can officially get involved in balochistan and cause more pain for pakistan.

    1. India should be prepared for a lot more conflict in Kashmir. Pakistan has put the Taliban back in power and will expect its RoI. On the other hand, it looks like the Maoist insurgency and issues in the North East are at an ebb, which frees up some resources to deal with the issues.

  11. I remember asking about a source/paper/summary which was titled along the lines of ‘where are they now?’. In particular this had info on where ancient south Asian remains including the mesolithic ones are being kept. I have recently come across it and would like to share it for anyone else who was interested in it.


    The UP mesolithic samples are kept in Allahabad University. It would be interesting to see the ancient DNA results of these remains.

    1. @DaThang Thanks for sharing.
      It would be interesting to see what percentage of their DNA belongs to the first settlers (Y haplogroup C) and subsequent migrants like H-men. I remember you hypothesized the “Aurignacian” Levant as a possible place of origin for Y haplogroup H.
      Is there any ongoing project on ancient DNA from India?

  12. More evidence the US is getting ready for a big one.

    US Senate Democrats are reportedly preparing to overhaul the nation’s military Selective Service System to require that all Americans, including women, be required to register for the draft.

    Senator Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island), chairman of the Armed Services Committee, has authored legislation expanding the registration requirement to include women, Politico reported on Monday, citing a copy of the bill. The current registration mandate applies only to males, when they reach 18, and carries potential fines or imprisonment for violators.


  13. All this talk of the Taliban being used in Kashmir is nonsense. It won’t make any difference. If it could it would have in the years leading to 2001.

  14. Lmao these dravidians on twitter will become part of the “jai meem jai bheem” gang in order to seperate themselves from the hindutvavadi northies

    Btw the fact that Bihar has higher literacy than Andhra Pradesh isnt talked about enough

  15. The latest mag edition of Nat Geo features the article ‘Too Hot to Live’ which talks about how entire areas of the earth are likely to become literally too hot for humans to avoid being cooked alive without massive availability of air conditioning for everyone – and no surprises that the Indian subcontinent is highlighted as the highest risk zone in the world.

    Researchers have come up with the indicator of ‘mortality cost’ which reflects the economic value of lives lost and the expense of adaptations such as air conditioning. This is affected by geography, age distribution and income as can be expected. Cities in the global north will be net winners as their winters will be balmier and summers still livable despite higher temperatures. Some cities in the global south such as Singapore, Rio, Mexico City, Mumbai, Bengaluru and Hyderabad will get hotter too but since these are already adapted to the heat they are expected to see slight net decreases in mortality cost due to increase in availability of air conditioning and other developments brought about by economic growth – this is just what the article says, I don’t fully believe it as it may be optimistic IMO.

    Cities in W Asia, SSA and the NW of the subcontinent are expected to be worst affected. In India, Delhi and Amritsar will see small but considerable increases in both average temperature and mortality cost but not nearly as much as (in ascending order) Dhaka, Chittagong, Karachi, Rawalpindi, Islamabad, Peshawar, Lahore, Gujranwala, Faisalabad and Multan. Chennai and Kolkata just about manage to stay at the same mortality cost level as today, with increases in temperature offset by economic growth.

    Grim times ahead for the subcontinent as evidenced by nearly all environmental indicators. I still think the mega-heat wave cum drought that kills millions in north India as predicted by Kim Stanley Robinson in The Ministry of the Future may be far fetched, but increasing the liveability of cities and the environment seem to be the least priority items of the Indian government – that’s my impression, I’m happy to be corrected by someone better informed than myself

    1. How do these modelers explain the fact that India’s agrarian output has grown rapidly in the last 3 decades despite flat consumption of fertilizers and pesticides ? I dont think urban economies will be affected much, after all Dubai and Phoenix are thriving metropolises despite the high temperatures.

      Also, in the US the center of population has been continuously shifting from the cold northeast to the much hotter southwest.

    1. she says that she comes from udupi. samant is obviously a marathi name. having said that, south canara coast has quite a few marathi families, who have settles long back.

  16. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5wFGh5_szI&ab_channel=FamilyFeud

    A guju family. The Patels for good measure. Again, these people would be considered just average in India.

    Indians do not appreciate their own beautiful diversity. It is not wrong what they consider beautiful. But their hierarchy is clearly fucked up and the result of thousands of years of severe mental colonization by more West Eurasian peoples.

    1. Everyone starts looking good once they have enough money and self awareness. You are exaggerating how much Indians subscribe to the only fair skin can be beautiful idea.

      1. Entertainment industry does not reflect this. TV shows, movies, modeling, etc. still just attempt to portray the most light skinned W Eurasian looking shifted people on average. People with “ambiguous” look are prioritized. The median Indian look is there but under represented. It is frankly more appreciated abroad. The people in those videos are much closer to that median, if anything at that median.

        They look nothing but Indian facially and have medium brown skin.

        1. “Entertainment industry does not reflect this. TV shows, movies, modeling, etc. still just attempt to portray the most light skinned W Eurasian looking shifted people on average.”

          @thewarlock This kind of bias is much milder in Bangladeshi entertainment industry. This is despite Bollywood being quite popular in BD. Most actors in BD are almost average looking — for example, cricket players like Tamim Iqbal or Mahmudullah can play protagonist role in a commercial movie and nobody would object that. The actor Ziaul Haque Apurba ( average look + medium brown skin) is one of the most popular tv actor in BD:

          The same with the movie actress Nusrat Faria:
          I also agree with Vikram that money and self awareness can change the appearance from average to glamorous. In the video below, the aforementioned actress is shown both in her current glamorous look and her student outfit during a debate program years ago :

          The bollywoodid W eurasian type actors are also present in BD but they aren’t seen as something exceptional because of their look.

        2. I would argue that the entertainment industry of any country that has a majority “dark” populace will usually find themselves being fairly underrepresented in favour of the “light” minority.

  17. I have a doubt. Would appreciate if someone clears it for me.

    In one of the other posts on this site it is mentioned that the kamboj of punjab have 2% AHG
    How is this possible?

    1. There seems to be a link between being Iranic or adjacent (Kamboj are from Afghanistan) and having minor AHG.

      1. thx for responding @jezza.
        But 2% is too low. Living in Punjab and Haryana for centuries would have surely had an effect. The Jat-Ror range seems more plausible(13-20).
        Else wont they be looking like kalash or something

        1. You may be right, it could be possibly be a data issue, I suggest going to the Southern Asian section of the Anthrogenica forum for more in depth information.

          I think they don’t look like Kalash because of sexual/environmental selection and not to mention less inbreeding.

          1. Without knowing anything I would bet some money its because they are using IVC instead of Iran-N as one of the 3 components.

            IVC has some AASI ancestry.

            Hence they still look brown / like other NW agricultural castes (jatts, gujjars etc)

        2. Yes. Limited sample but as Sumit said IVC component has AASI. Few samples we have average at about 25%.

          The cline from Raghakiri sample was very low to-50%

          1. @thewarlock
            yes i did consider ivc as approx 1/5th ahg-related- that would take the ahg to around 15%
            But by the same model north indian brahmins are getting 34% AHG-related.
            I thought it would be around 22-28%.
            And the pashtuns are getting 23 percent AHG-related.

            Or am i wrong?

        3. I think Brahmins genuinely are 34% AHG. The AASI in IVC related ancestry tends to be undercounted, when people discuss these things. There are also subtypes of AASI.

          1. That could be the case. What about pathans being 20-25 percent aasi related though?

            Can these be taken as approx percentages?

            By this method the north indian brahmins are 24-25 percent AHG-Related. Over this if we count the aasi related from Indus periphery we would get the total around 35 percent.

            There is a problem though. The kalash are already get 4 percent AHG-related in this model.
            Taking in consideration the aasi from indus periphery, the kalash are 17 percent AASI now!

            So either the north indian brahmins are 25 percent AASI-related or the kalash are 17 percent AASI-related.
            I think the former is much more plausible.

            What do you think, @warlock

          2. The average kalash is not European passing. Some of them look Punjabi etc.

            Google videos of their Joshi festival rather than one off images of the whitest looking individuals.

            I don’t think 15% or so AASI for them is unreasonable.

  18. there is political churning in karnataka. b j p high command wants to replace chief minister yeddiyurappa, a lingayat, as he is old. about 500 lingayat religious leaders are supporting him, in order to retain him as chief minister. this is almost unprecedented in modern times, as earlier such efforts were more behind the scenes.
    even lingayat congress leaders are supporting yeddiyurappa in an effort to be seen as hostile to a fellow caste man.
    it will be interesting to see as to how this will pan out.

    rahul who has now taken power, in congress is rooting for a younger shivakumar against the more mass based former chief minister siddaramiah.

    1. I am not sure what’s BJP beef against Yeduruppa though. He seems a pretty ok CM. Also he hasnt ever challenged Modi/Shah. Plus there is hardly any 2nd gen leader who is a clear cut successor of Yedi.

      1. for one he is 79 years old. if they allow him to rule, it will be difficult for the ‘high command’ to retire other elders.
        secondly, when he was supported by the high command to topple the then existing j d s + congress ministry, the deal was that he will be a c m for two years. this time has come now.
        also he might not be entirely clean!!.

        1. Frankly, if he is allowed his term, he would have retired peacefully (considering that his son is rehabilated in the party), but now he might just fight back. I dont buy this retirement theory though. All the other elders of BJP are dead weight, and won because of Modi, while Yedi is no push over. After losing MH, BJP would be ill advised to loose another financial capital.

          1. +1 to what Saurav is saying. Apparently the cons of this move are obvious to everyone but the big2 + nagpur.
            Yeddy has been fairly competent at governance. Regarding his not so clean image, he is accused of benefiting from 2 plots..lol :-). His contemporaries and rivals in B’luru politics own dozens of layouts :-). Further most state level OBC politicians are “guilty” of such practices where there is no clear delineation of political fund raising and personal funds. Among the UCs, Gandhis come to mind apart from Sukhram. But generally UC politicians are more concerned with getting admissions and jobs to their kith and kin in western institutions. Plus BJP/RSS have a well oiled corporate funding pipeline.
            Frankly I was surprised to see Modi making a big show of having OBC, SC/ST ministers in his parliamentary introduction. Was there was an element of guilt for past/future actions against state level OBC leaders 🙂 ?
            On a bigger perspective, it seems congress and bjp take turns in centralizing/cutting down state level leaders whenever they have strong central leadership. This tussle usually maps to one between a UC dominated Delhi durbar ranged OBC level state leaders.
            In terms of intra-lingayat politics, this episode might provide a rallying cry, albeit a temporary one. Depends a lot on who is chosen as replacement .

          2. I have my doubts that either Shah or Modi are leaning to either side of the debate. It was Modi/Shah who rehabilitated some of the OBC elders (Yedi, Kalyan Singh etc) around 2014. To me it has to do with intra Karnataka rivalry getting solved at Delhi. And Modi/Shah not trying to lean either way.

            In MP and Bihar, there is a similar situation where Shivraj and Nitish were seen as rival to Modi once. But once they acquiesced to Modi’s leadership, the center has had a hands-off approach to them, much to chagrin of Modi/Shah own favorites.

  19. What are some previously mainstream historical theories that have been disproven/put in serious doubt in the last few years because of aDNA?

  20. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mem1aZu13Wg&ab_channel=ThePrint

    In a conversation with ThePrint’s Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta, Sampath talked about his upcoming second part of a two-part biography on Veer Savarkar titled “Savarkar: A Contested Legacy”. Sampath also addressed questions pertaining to the controversies surrounding Savarkar, and what it was like for him to dive deep into the history of Savarkar.

  21. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/21/india-israel-nso-pegasus-spyware-hack-modi-bjp-democracy-watergate/

    ” In a bid to counter an authoritarian Beijing, the Biden administration has positioned New Delhi as its major democratic partner in the region. Modi’s authoritarian and anti-democratic moves have often earned only mild rebukes from successive U.S. administrations. (Stronger words have reportedly been used in private conversations with Indian officials.)

    Now, the Biden administration may have to go public to stop New Delhi from regressing further down an authoritarian road. It has to do so not only to ensure the success of its Indo-Pacific strategy but to help 1.4 billion Indians fulfill their democratic dream. Indian democracy has also long been a beacon for other developing countries. There is too much for the world to lose if India’s democratic backsliding continues.”

    Sepoy doing sepoy stuff…

    1. Such Jaichands and Mir Jafars should only get one response.

      “Desh ke gaddaron ko, goli maaron saalon ko”. 😛

      More seriously I am glad Sushant Singh and his ilk have exposed themselves completely as two bit, agenda peddling, nincompoops. They should never be taken seriously again despite the credentials they have managed to acquire and despite the veil of saintliness they shroud themselves in. These people DO NOT have India’s interests at heart.

      Imagine a self confessed leftist importunating imperialist USA to cut off ties with India because he doesn’t like the current Indian govt. Running propaganda that civil liberties are sliding in India when they are actually improving.

      1. To me the frightening part is he is ex-army man. This shows what ideas are being circulated in National Defence Academy and all.

        Also his article has been answered by this thread.


        “I’m not persuaded. India isn’t a valuable partner *because* it’s a democracy. Just as China’s not a rival *because* it’s an autocracy.

        They’re partners or rivals because of converging or conflicting interests. Regime type isn’t irrelevant but historically interests reign supreme

        DC folks have no qualms making the case for why Vietnam is an important strategic partner. Or Saudi. Or Thailand. Why? Because our shared interests trump any divergence over “values.” With India, the concerns are less salient and the strategic value/convergence more substantial.”

    2. The author of the post is an associate at Centre for Policy research. Fun fact- the President of CPR is the daughter of Manishankar Iyyar. Now it’s been really easy to locate the propaganda tool in this country. Unemployable JNU graduates are getting jobs in such think tanks

      1. I would say her views are not as extreme as MS Aiyar. Also CPR from time to time has had right leaning folks, so its ok.

    3. America is not that important. India pays for American goods with hard fucking cash. We get the jobs in the US because we do it better and cheaper than others. Neither trade nor Indian diaspora is reason enough to kowtow to American nautanki.

      If anything Indians should use some tougher words for America from H1B/Green-card fuck-ups to screwing India-Iran, Afghanistan, electing Extremist Right wing Christian White Nationalist Trump (Hindutva Modi?). These Amreeki coconut ass wipes should not be taken seriously by anyone with power in India.

      India ki phati pe jhaant kaam nai aayenge gore. Aukaat mein rakho inko.

    4. I missed this news cycle (and I don’t trust The Wire), what actually happened as far as we know?

    1. The US never really had a decisive edge over the Soviet Union militarily, countries buy Russian arms even today. But the Soviet Union was extinguished when it ran out of money. This bankruptcy was ultimately precipitated by the US convincing the Saudis to pump out more oil and devalue Soviet’s most prominent export. Ultimately its money that matters but American and European business is deeply enmeshed with China.

      1. American exceptionalism and claims about containing China are hubris. It is already too late for American businesses to do anything substantial. China is almost 100% independent the US big-tech (FAANG) empire. It is the factory of the world. Other than top of the line semiconductors there is nothing China can’t do exceedingly well. If the west can disrupt say Comac’s supply chain but China can decimate world’s steel and lithium markets. It is just a matter of time that pundits doing ‘Amreeka-mahatmya’ recitals start peddling ‘So what if China can do this-that, at least we are free. Our ancestors were persecuted pilgrims from India seeking freedom in the US’ nonsense.

        1. @Bhimrao

          > China is almost 100% independent the US big-tech

          That is a remarkably foolish statement. FAANG is mostly consumer-oriented companies. That is not where the main strength of the US lies. America controls the key chokepoints in semiconductors, because TSMC is reliant on US firms for their software inputs. TSMC is reliant on ASML for its EUV machines and wheras ASML is a Dutch firm, its government will do what the US says.

          China is not 100% independent of US tech, either controlled directly or through proxies. And Huawei learned that lesson the hard way, being forced to sell their handset business.

          1. I specifically mentioned FAANG because I anticipated a similar response and they account for about 10% of US stock market’s capitalization, are maybe the most outward looking companies, collect the most data, are the tip of the American tech-spear and could have made massive amounts of money if China let them in.

            US has toys to teach others a lesson, China too has its own.

    1. That list of 30 organisations includes Church of Scientology National Affairs Office. Lol.

  22. @Sumit
    Yes i do agree the average kalash clearly isn’t european passing.

    But the kalash are talked of as an “untouched” group with only indus valley and sintashta components.
    Even used as a proxy for the ANI.

    So it would be quite an unpopular fact that the kalash are 15-20% AASI-Related.
    What do you think.

    I was actually trying to calculate average gene pools in percentages of different regions.
    Got approx 32% AHG for Eastern UP; which seems low, so you maybe right.
    Taking in Indus periphery as 1/5th AASI, we get a much more realistic 42.5%.

    Also Haryana would be put around 32.5% AASI
    West Punjab at 36% AASI, more than Haryana!

    1. What Indians / South Asian really want to know is what % of their ancestry is White and what percentage is Black. And then which group is whiter than which other group so they can flex whiteness and gain status.

      The reality of course is more complex. The ‘Black’ ancestry in India is related to East Asian people not africans.

      And a lot of the ‘White’ ancestry is related to Iranians not to Europeans, albeit a minority of it is. And there there is also a statistically significant amount of Siberian ancestry.

      And then some eastern groups have Tibeto-Burman and some groups like the Munda have other South East Asian ancestry.

      But no one cares about all of this, they care about ‘White’ vs ‘Black’.
      I am not a geneticist and don’t know much about the filed. But we don’t have samples for unadmixed, pure ‘Black’ ancestry so its tricky to say the exact percentage ‘Black’.

      Any model that shows the brown people are more ‘Black’ than they previously thought will be unpopular.

      1. You are surely right. I See how half half of the threads usually end up in paras about northwest phenotypes and steppe percentages

        My intention is to know about the largely ignored AASI-impact on the subcontinent, substantial amounts of which I regard as a marker for being south asian. They are the only component which developed indigenously in the region and nobody seems to care about this.

        And not to mention the AASI is genetically among the farthest populations from the Sub-Saharans, but again, its all about phenotypes isnt it?

        Also is the siberian amount non-trivial?

      1. I think the ASI on there is a good estimate for AASI. It maps out pretty well.

  23. “Also is the siberian amount non-trivial?”

    All I mean is it is present in statistically significant amounts (but very counterintuitive if you consider how far Siberia is from India)

    The AASI stuff is tricky since there are no non-admixed pure AASI populations in modern day India.

    Using the Onge as a proxy would underestimate AASI they separated 40,000 years ago from AASI.

    My understanding is you can build a sort of statistical model of AASI and use that as a component for modelling the genetics.

    But I am getting really out of my depth here if I try to evaluate these statistical models etc.

    I am probably one of the least knowledgeable commentators here on genetics so please take anything I write with a grain of salt.

    1. Haha I’m pretty much a newbie so even the least knowledgeable commentator would have a thing or two that they could tell me.

      And I am not actually looking for exact percentages, I just wanted a rough idea from the models present currently.
      It kinda bugs me how “steppe” gets 100x more documented than much more abundant AASI.

    1. Afghanistan has 100s of towns/villages with the suffix “gram”
      Desi confirmed

  24. lots of interesting things:
    1. mamata amma’s speech is being translated to many languages.
    2. mayavati’s party demanding faster construction of ram temple.
    3. rahul dravid giving caps to 5 debutants, which will certainly increase their bcci payout!!!
    4. ???

    1. 1. Outside of Bengal , Bengalis reputation precedes them, which Mamta will know about soon enough.

      2. More-Hindu region makes non Hindu parties/people pander to Hinduism. Less Hindu regions makes even UCs less Hindu.

      3. Venkatesh Prasad might just become new BJP MP. He is sub tweeting Tejaswi Surya.

  25. https://theprint.in/politics/kab-banega-mandir-bsp-invokes-ram-parashuram-as-it-begins-brahmin-outreach-from-ayodhya/701997/

    At the conclave, Satish Mishra, BSP general secretary and the Brahmin face of the party, announced that the first thing the party will do after getting elected is speed up the construction of the Ram Temple in Ayodhya.

    While attacking the BJP for the delay in construction, Mishra said: “Ek saal se mandir nahin ban paaye hain. Kab banega mandir? Kitne saal lagenge? (The temple has not been completed in the past year. When will it be made? How many years will it take?)”

    He added: “If we are elected, we will pressurise them (the Centre) to build the temple and use all the crores of funds that they have collected in the name of donations.”

    In a speech that lasted about an hour and a half, the BSP leader cited ‘Shri Ram’ at least a dozen times and also said the BJP is not the “sole custodian of Lord Ram”.

    “Kya Ayodhya par aapki thekedari hai? Kya Shri Ram par aapki thekedari hai? Shri Ram sabke hain (Do you have sole custody of Ayodhya? Of Shri Ram? Shri Ram belongs to everyone),” Mishra said.”

    More Hindu region ☝️

  26. https://www.dawn.com/news/1636683/india-made-afghanistan-terrorist-sanctuary-in-last-20-years-to-fuel-terrorism-in-pakistan-moeed

    ” National Security Adviser (NSA) Dr Moeed Yusuf on Saturday said Afghanistan was forced to become a “sanctuary for terrorists” by India in the past 20 years to fuel terrorism in Pakistan, emphasising that “it must now stop”.

    He said India would miss a “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity if it failed to take up this chance for the region to move forward with the current civil and military leadership of Pakistan. ”

    Hahahaha… what a bunch of ass clowns!

    1. I think both sides know nothing would change much on the ground, and just playing along.

      There is an election in Pak-Kashmir so certain statements have to made by Pakistani side. When it will be the turn of Indian Kashmir, u will see the rhetoric ratchet up on the Indian side.

      1. ‘once in a lifetime’ and blaming India for terrorism made me smile.

        BFF might actually become the NSA someday.

    1. Laaton ke bhoot…

      Question is how quickly would Ghani realize that he is in no position to act like Manmohan Singh, Afghanistan being the shithole it is won’t survive even 10 cuts of the 1000s Pakistan intends to inflict.

      Some random thoughts on US:

      1) Never trust America, or at the very least never be dependent on America. Today it is Blinken, yesterday it was Clinton, tomorrow it might be AOC or some other retard. These fat people wear nice clothes, drive in stupid trucks and take credit for great deeds which they had no part in and were mostly outside even their field of expertise while pretending to be some great statesman, inheritors of some great line of scientific thought or some other made up BS. They are bumbling idiots, they have zero experience making anything work and are living off of the advantages they got from the hard-work and butchery of their forefathers.

      There are problems (like Covid or Afghanistan or Vietnam or Housing in Bay Area) that show how puny, and disorganized American nation is when faced with real hard problems. They too shit their pants.

      India must find her own way. Keep failing, become robust, never seek crutches.

      1. Indian are throwing a fit when Blinken is coming 2 visit. I want to imagine what happens, when AOC comes to India in a few years time. Half expect India might not give her a visa, or something 😛

        1. I am out of the loop. What did Blinken do?

          If there’s 5 years of 7-8% GDP growth, it’s probably going to shut most of these people down.

  27. https://twitter.com/KanwalSibal/status/1419218965277122564

    “Elements in countries seeking foreign intervention on HR/other grounds are linked to regime change policies or involve pol lobbies linked to ex-colonial powers in leadership struggles/contested elections. In established democracies India is dishonourable exception. Shameful.”

    Indian ex foreign secretary realizing something which common Indian knew all along. That we are a country of collaborators. And ethnicities/communities which aided various collaboration (and benefited immensely) haven’t given it up.

    1. I guess @Saurav’s phone is being tapped by the government through Pegasus ?. Jokes aside, Indian retired bureaucrats are really hypocrite. When they were in service they did the exact opposite of what they sermon. I read Prinipia’s post on acquisition? and made me realise just 1 year ago all that hue and cry “AtmaNirbhar Bharat”and DPP 2020 which will make defence indegeneous is now down the drain.

      1. Modi and Shah should have mock added their names on the Pegasus list, and that would have nipped the whole thing in the bud. Would have given Indian liberals the warm feeling that either US or China is snopping on Modi/Shah and making them weaker.

        On India’s long list of failed initiatives, i do still marvel how much optimism is shown by the blog commentators on every initative. Even DRDO folks dont have as much confidence on their end result , as many on the blog have.

      2. I don’t think Indians should take the bait. Russians are very unscrupulous in arm-twisting for money long after the deals are signed. Plus we can make exotic looking airframes ourselves, creating and then integrating the myriad systems is 99% of the work.

        For good or bad, the graft- drama that unfolds after every foreign acquisition is forcing the GoI to buy from Indian vendors. At least in buying Indian stuff the inquiry would be after we lose a war and not before the next election. Instead of discussing meaningless graft allegations the people will be shouting on how pathetic INSAS was, how overweight XYZ was, how under powered…, we will be celebrating our ‘brave’ soldiers who will be KIA fighting the Chinese automatic weapons with Enfield bolt action rifles and Pakistani F-16s with Mig-21s.

        My bystander 2-taka opinion of Russian aircrafts is that they are not as good as the western ones. No one buys them as their first choice. Their simplicity and ease of maintenance is marred by lack of spares. Add to this the karwachauth that Indian faujis demand- a tank that has the best cannon and the best engine and the thickest armor and the best electro-optics and the safest crew compartment and should be the lightest! TF morons?

        Mk 2 will be a very good airplane, what worries me at the moment is how unfocussed ADA has become, they have MK1A, MK2, TEDBF, AURA, and AMCA being developed simultaneously. ADA is a tiny organization, I am guessing that there are barely 50 at most a 100 good designers (including Aero + Flight dynamics and stability+ controls + propulsion + systems + …) in the whole country, I know this is too much too soon.

        IAF had pulled out of the Su57 after sinking 2000 crores for ZERO return!! One of the reasons was that the Russians used to treat their pilots and engineers like nosy opinionated freshmen fine-arts students in Paris trying to critique Picasso.

        Indigenization and creating domestic industry depends on making a realistic goal and iterating. A few years ago we were behind the Swedes in conceptualizing a carrier landing aircraft, today we have already landed our own one on a ship while Swedes are still making ppts. Iterating works.

        1. I dont have much idea on all these defense stuff. Only thing i know that we are shit at it. Its better to just outsource the damn thing, rather than both buying and also trying (and failing) in Indigenization. Should make up our mind to go with US/Israel/West (ditch Russia), and just get what we can. At least the money saved from sinking into the bureaucratic hole can be put to better use.

          Just try to manufacture small guns and mil uniforms and that shit.

          1. Yeah, than means we cant even make that,LOL. Also should import the military garment from Bangladesh.

          2. No, I think we should incentivize American, Israeli and European arms companies to setup shop in India, hire Indian engineers, do RnD locally and produce locally. This has already started happening but needs a massive push. We have a big enough domestic market if we stop ordering things piecemeal.

            We should shut down, privatize defense PSUs and Ordnance factories except those working on nuclear armaments or single crystal blade technologies for jet engines since no country will ever part with that. For those govt controlled labs we should hire the top minds in the country and pay them millions and NOT have an IAS babu in charge.

            We do not need F-35s, meaning the latest and the most cutting edge equipment. (Not a single country including the USA needs F-35s.) USA would not agree for that to be manufactured in India. We just need modern and reliable equipment. We can do very well with F-16s, F-15s and F-18s.

            This approach will build a domestic military industrial complex in India and will create a whole ecosystem of research and development just like we have for the software industry and automobiles to a certain extent.

          3. “No, I think we should incentivize American, Israeli and European arms companies to setup shop in India, hire Indian engineers, do RnD locally and produce locally.”

            I have a higher chance of becoming president…

        2. “Add to this the karwachauth that Indian faujis demand- a tank that has the best cannon and the best engine and the thickest armor and the best electro-optics and the safest crew compartment and should be the lightest! TF morons?”

          And it should be cheaper than its competitors too.

          Also its not just the Faujis demanding it. Its every other Tom, Dick and Harry who might want to level an allegation of corruption and partiality. Look at whats happening with the Rafale deal.

          BTW the Indian armed forces deserve the old equipment they are using. Instead of buying F-16s in bulk, a cheap alternative that does 90% of what Rafale can do and is a better plane (Block 50 or Block 70) than what Pakistan and China have or hope to have in the next 20-30 years, they chose to go for minuscule quantities of Rafale. Next time there is a conflict we are sure to see mixed results. Rafales would dominate the enemy wherever they can fielded but there would never be enough of them to dominate all the theatres.

          Russian planes are shit. Bad engines, bad electronics obsolete airframes. More dangerous to the pilots who fly them than the enemy. Russian engines are not reliable enough to produce single engined aircraft. Russia (and the erstwhile Soviet Union) is also much worse at electronics than the West. Most modern air combat is beyond visual range be it bombing ground targets or engaging enemy fighters. When India had to bomb Balakot, Su-30MKIs were useless. We had to use the much older Mirages. Similarly for engaging F-16s with AAMRAMs, Su-30s were useless. Only Mirages can field missiles with similar capabilities.

          1. @ Janamejaya

            …When India had to bomb Balakot, Su-30MKIs were useless. We had to use the much older Mirages. Similarly for engaging F-16s with AAMRAMs, Su-30s were useless….

            Aircrafts for mission are only selected on the basis of operational doctrine and statement of intent. There was a definitive political statement made when the aircraft crossed PoK and into Khyber Pakthunwa itself to deliver the payload. So the IAF probably responded to a political need to breach enemy airspace. That and the fact that using a Su30 MKI is overkill. Su30 MKIs could have destroyed the place on Jaba Top with their Kh59s while remaining over Ambala – the weapon has a standoff range of 250 km+.

            The next day, the two Su 30s evaded upto 6 AMRAAMs – courtesy the SAP 518 active jammer – weighs a monster 400 kgs. Basically if you do the math, two of these planes took on a seven F16 co-ordinated ambush. The Pakistanis kept on claiming a Su30 MKI kill – unable to believe that the none of the AMRAAMs lived up to their advertised Pk (probability of kill). The Su-30 MKI is very much lethal.

  28. FWIW, Chinese military experts that I’ve seen quoted have said that Russia has bad aviation electronics where they lag the west (so Janamejaya is right about that) but in their opinion, Russia still makes decent engines and airframes.

    Ajai Shukla, who I quoted earlier in this blog, noted many years ago that Israel first got their foot in the door with India due to a large Russian-Jewish diaspora. Many of these emigrés were working in the Russian MIC before doing aliyah, so they know Russian systems well. This was the central irony: Israel did maintenance of Russian arms better than Russia itself.

    The new Russian SU-75 (“checkmate”) 5th gen plane costs about $25-30 million per plane. American F-35II costs about $100 million. Given this huge disparity, it will be attractive for India to look at Russia’s new 5th gen plane as an alternative to F-35II. This will of course not please Washington. Expect plenty more “concerns about human rights” coming your way.

    India has the HAL AMCA programme to deal with 5th gen fighter jets, but thus far it is merely a computer sketch on a screen. India is also very far behind on engines. Even if AMCA were to go according to plan, India would still need to import engines from abroad. I am less pessimistic about this than Saurav. India has a successful space programme and has decent missiles (Agni etc), so I think the capacity is there. It is more likely a question of priorities and getting the babus in order.

    A major problem is that in India, babus are selected as generalists and then moved around willy-nilly. What you really need is people getting deep in the weed for an extended period of time into a specific area, like defence. In India, it isn’t unusual for babus to be doing animal husbandry a few years and then suddenly be stationed within DRDO or some other part of the MIC. Since they aren’t experts, they become risk-averse and foreign procurement becomes an easy way out to avoid major mistakes. (There’s probably also a lot of bribery involved from foreign arms companies, but this is harder to prove since everyone has an incentive to hide it).

    1. ” Many of these emigrés were working in the Russian MIC before doing aliyah, so they know Russian systems well.”

      This reminded me that a Israeli co worker once asked me, if Alia Bhatt is jewish. He had a vague idea that India had some left over jews.

      Also if u have experienced and grown up within India’s babu-dom, which i have, u cant help but not be pessimistic.

  29. Pakistan is having it’s Nirbhaya moment. Maybe Nirbhaya+Jessica Lal given the suspect is some rich guy who went medieval on an ambassador’s daughter – knuckleduster, strangling, stabbing (even the temple!!) beheading and shooting all in one.

    In reporting on Afghanistan, American news media is showing yet again that they are entertainers first. Afghan dead in war or Indian dead in Covid are just statistics to them, more material to keep fat-balding retired oilman Bob from Oklahoma glued to the TV and show Futon and CocaCola advertisements to. They are showing pie charts and heat maps like it is some sports or weather reporting when actual people are dying. Saanu ki? Maran-do.

  30. @Ugra
    “Su30 MKIs could have destroyed the place on Jaba Top with their Kh59s while remaining over Ambala – the weapon has a standoff range of 250 km+.”

    Kh59 is a relic of the 1970s. It uses inertial guidance for the majority of its journey and switches to TV guidance (controlled by the weapons officer aboard launch aircraft) near the target. it is NOT a suitable munition for precision strikes. Do you understand how difficult it would be for a human to control a remote missile at night using only a weak television signal? It could perhaps be used to devastate a city block during daytime but thats about it.

    This is why IAF used Spice-2000, a modern Israeli, GPS guided munition. And most probably they successfully hit their targets. The IAF is stupid but not that stupid. They really did not have any other option than to use the one western fighter they had for the Balakot job.

    BTW the USA has already retired its TV guided munitions in favor of laser guided or GPS guided ones.

    The munitions Su-30 MKI carries are atleast a generation behind the ones a western fighter of an equivalent generation (F-16, F-15, F-18, Mirage etc) can carry. It might come in handy is there is an all-out war but for short skirmishes which feature our best against the enemy’s best it would mostly lose out against western aircraft.

    1. The IAF uses the Kh59 MK2, from 2005 vintage. You are philosophising with outdated info.

      1. The IAF also uses Su-30 MKI built in 2020. It doesn’t make it a 6th gen aircraft.

        One can keep producing old shit and calling it mk2, mark 4 and what not.

        You are bullshitting about this dude. Kh-59s are useless for precision strikes. Thats a fact.

        1. @Janamejaya

          I heard you the first time. You should provide technical reasoning instead of repeating your personal judgements ad infinitum.

          Kh59 is a propelled munition (turbofan) which confers mission flexibility in rerouting and profile gains. The Spice bombs are only ballistic + glide path.

          The reason why Mirage+ Spice combo was used for Balakot had to do with political signalling.

          Other facts that you mis-state – Su30 MKI is a newer aircraft than the F16 C/Ds that PAF operates. The Su-30 has a PESA radar while the F16 has a multimode radar which is of older vintage. You clearly don’t know details – that the Su-30 has superior electronics and avionics. You are perhaps watching too many Hollywood movies with bad technical detailing.

          1. Dude,
            I am the one providing all the technical reasoning here. You are the one saying shit like kh-59 is “propelled” munition. All missiles are necessarily “propelled.” Its the guidance system that matters. If a guidance system is good enough that it can land a glide bomb on a small house at night without active involvement of the pilot, what more do you need? Thats what the Israeli Spice gives you.

            All the “better” avionics and electronics that Su-30 carries did not stop it from being outranged by far older F-16s carrying AAMRAMs. In a prolonged war IAF with its massive Su-30 fleet would prevail over PAF with its small number of F-16s and AAMRAMs. But in a small skirmish India without Rafales would be at a significant disadvantage.

            BTW, the F-16s India would have gotten would have had AESA radars forget about PESA. New radars, electronics and weapons can easily be fitted into aircraft. (Doesn’t mean you can easily fit western avionics in Sukhoi)

            All this Su-30 halo has also been built up by these stupid Indo-US air exercises. These exercises are cleverly setup by the USAF to only cover within visual range dogfighting in which Su-30 is probably the best fighter in the world. The IAF does pretty well at dogfighting with its Su-30s and cannot stop backslapping itself. Whereas its USAF which really gets more out of the exercises since they want to train their pilots to get better at dogfighting and not rely only on missiles just in case they get into sticky situations. However all the world now knows that real damage can be inflicted without even coming in visual range. At stand off distances USAF and generally western aircraft are atleast a generation better than Russian ones. And getting better; whereas most Russian equipment hasn’t improved much since the Soviet Union collapsed.

          2. Where is my bro Bhimrao when u need him.

            Bhim, can u just add some more technical jargons in the conversation

          3. @Saurav
            Bhai I loved this when I was younger. Abhi toh I sit in daily scrums and realize that making even small things well takes 10s of very focused and talented engineers many, some very good managers and leadership with a viable vision. Yeh sab hawai-jahaj, gola-barood is above my pay grade. Maybe if I had to work in defence and had 4-5 people I can pull off a reasonable Software Defined Radio or do some simulations but making airplanes are pursuits that even countries barely manage. Meri aukaat se baahar hai. Also I don’t know enough to say anything clever.

          4. … and here i was half expecting Bhim u will produce the next indigenous drone named ‘Drona-acharya’

  31. Indians not doing so hot in olympics.

    Main hope are skill based sports and low weight class combat sports. Other than Chopra in Javelin. I wonder when India can produce a good heavy weight. Even so called martial groups produce mostly people that are in low weight classes. Pound for pound, India doesn’t produce good big men

    Iran seems very good at producing elite big men. Maybe structural thing partially.

    1. The only comparison I know of wrt Iran structurally speaking in terms of size (clavicles in this case) is from a Thai paper which cited a bunch of other comparisons including a bunch of Indian regional samples, Greeks and Iranians (not an exhaustive list). In the list, the northwest Indian sample fell exact between the Iranian and Greek lengths. The numbers were something like this, and this is not the exhaustive list:

      Iran: 147.21 mm (males), 130.38 mm (females)
      Greek: 153.9 mm mm (males), 137.00 mm (females)
      Northwest Indian: 150.27 mm (males), 135.37 mm (females)
      Northeastern Thais: 150.2 mm (males), 133.50 mm (females)

      The list also included other Indian regional values and they were around 142-143 mm (males) and 126-128 mm (females). Furthermore, it included the circumferences for some of the comparison groups, but not for the northwest Indian group. In the circumference list, Iranians had a higher clavicle circumference than Greeks, Indians, Thais and Guatemalans.

    2. Pakistan and Bangladesh need to step it up as well.

      Sri Lanka is the only other South Asian country to have even won a medal in the last 25 years. (silver in 200 meter sprint in 2000)

      (on a side note just imagine if Pakistan was winning medals, the level of vitriol and racist commentary you would see from the “Phindu” light-brown supremacist gang.)

      Regardless. Pathetic performances all around.

      1. Serious question. What would be cooler? a) India winning 5 shooting or table tennis medals, b) an Indian dude just making it to the final of the 200m, 400m sprint? I’d be way more amped for the latter. Btw, men’s 4 x 400m as well as the mixed team have qualified which is taken for granted that even getting a slot in the olympics for these elite categories is a big deal. Another cool fact, sri lankan sprinter Yupun Abeykoon is competing in the 100m and as far as I know the only south asian to run it under 10.1 seconds. We need a guy to break the 10s barrier!

    3. Punjab produces heavyweights in combat sports. E.g. the current One Heavyweight world champion – Arjan Bhullar. And back in the day there was The Great Gama.

  32. Looking at samurai anime representations of countries created by Japanese artists for the olympics. 2 south asian countries are represented.



    The indian samurai is named “Khan” and the Sri Lakan Samurai is white

    that aside here is the bio for the Indian one

    “The name is Kahn. Brains. He is fluent in mathematics and languages.

    He is generous enough to forgive in a minute if he gets angry and can get along with anyone.

    He likes to interact actively, so he often speaks too close.

    His specialty is acting. He also repairs PCs and machines in the Technology Development Department.

    He was also active as an actor in Bollywood (Hollywood, India).

    You can talk to Alain (France) all day long in actor theory. ”


    1. One tragedy of the post war world was the stunted Japanese psyche. A bit like the stereotypical techie who excels at particular skills, but lacks the will or desire to truly affect the world and develop their own independent view of cultures. This is reflected in such second hand imaginations coming out of an otherwise prosperous society.

  33. regarding kar’nataka’
    i feel if b j p wins two more terms and makes north karnataka lingayaths as chief ministers, separation of state along tungabhadra will happen say in next 20 years.

    1. Why though bro ? Don’t know much abt intra state dynamics but I will feel sad for my second best fav people divided.

      But then it’s your own state”s call.

      1. i wrote a comment, probably it is struck in moderation.
        karnataka is one of the few states which got areas from other states such as nizam’s hyderbad, madras presidency, bombay presidency, coorg etc. these areas were added to mysore state. with the capital of the state remaining in south and subsequent p s u and soft ware boom, only bangalore grew.
        at some point, there should be a political consensus of sharing power between the regions and castes. if southern portion of the state and dominant castes feel left out because of numbers, movement for division intensifies.
        ironically, there are sections in the northern region who feel that they have not been benefited adequately and are constantly raising the separatist flag.
        old mysore has hardly any love lost for the northern karnataka and will at some point happy to let them off.

        1. In early naughts, the separate state feeling in north KA was pretty strong. This was driven in part by sudden loss of representation at Bengaluru level (retirement/demise of j h patel, r k hegde etc) and concurrent rise in Bengaluru as global city. But in last 10-15 years, the completion of irrigation projects and focus on development has turned around things. At least in Belagavi division, there is increase in area under irrigation, road construction and overall prosperity. Things may not be as rosy in Kalaburagi revenue division.
          The erstwhile Janata Parivar in KA had north, central, malnad KA lingayats, south KA vokkaligas and Sahyadri, Kanara UCs in a single tent and leaders from these groups accommodated each other. But that understanding seems to be increasingly under strain if not completely broken down.
          In terms of power sharing, KA has a model where every district has in-charge minister, usually the senior most minister from that district/area. So it is not that people in Hassan, Mandya etc have to go talk some north KA minister to get things done.
          However I think the bone of contention is the “juicy” revenue from Bengaluru especially real estate. North KA leaders have no meaningful stakes in Bengaluru RE. The existing players (basically coastal and southern KA + outsiders) obviously and justifiably don’t want to share the pie. This explains the hostility faced by BSY and likely his successor.
          In retrospect, if BSY had been allowed to serve out his term, there would have been no rallying around him in the lingayat community. A more capable BJP leader from other community/region could easily have been sold as CM candidate.
          In terms of future, yeah split along the tungabhadra or some other lines is a real possibility. A lot of it depends on the risk/reward calculus of vokkaligas in their strongholds and lingayats in Chitradurga, Davanagere and tumkur districts etc. Of course the behavior of north KA lingayat leaders matters immensely. Recent trend of those leaders is not exactly inspiring. But even the worst case scenario of split would not be bad and can be carried out smoothly rather than chaotic like andhra split. Also hoping that we will continue seeing each other as fellow kannadigas albeit with separate administrative units 🙂

    2. It’s an interesting proposition. What are your thoughts on smaller states for developmental purposes?

      1. Its hit and miss. Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh thought they are better off without Bihar and MP. Are they really better off? Cant say. Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh still is rentiers economy, and MP has really caught up with CH somewhat. Uttarakhand is doing well, but that’s the same as saying Himachal is doing well.

        Look at the recent entrant Telangana, it inherited a revenue surplus and a mega city to boot. Less than 5 years it has squandered its revenue surplus, and reverted to the mean, and become just another deficit state.

  34. Some time back i said that CAA is not worth the political capital BJP has invested. BJP seems to realize that.


    MHA seeks six more months for CAA rules
    This is the fifth extension sought by the government for framing rules for a controversial law that resulted in widespread protests after it was passed in December 2019. It came into effect from January 2020.

      1. Well could be. I have watched Hotstars shows though. They aren’t as bad as they are ZEE5 or Balajis. But lets see.

  35. https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/hindu-nationalism-indian-nationhood-diversity-7421980/

    “As many as 65 per cent of Hindus believe that to be a true Indian, you have to be a Hindu, and nearly 50 per cent believe that to be a true Indian, you have to be both a Hindu and a Hindi speaker. The idea of Hindus or Hindi speakers being equated with India never went this far in modern Indian history.”

    More Hindu region = More Indian region = N-India

    “At this time, South India, says the survey, is leading the charge against politics that equates Hindu and Hindi with India. On all measures relevant to this equation, South India differs radically from Northern and Central India. Parts of the East, as we know, have also joined the pushback.”

    Less Hindu region = Less Indian region = East and S-India

    ” If this pushback expands its geographical ambit, the Hindi-Hindu-India politics will be weakened, and the superordinate identity will become stronger. If the BJP manages to reverse the pushback, India will be headed towards a breakdown of its superordinate civic identity. Political struggles of the coming years are thus monumentally important.”

    Hindu VS Less/Non Hindu regions will define India’s future

    1. Just curious, do you see Punjab becoming a More-Hindu region in the next decade or so?

      1. Dont know. There is a case to be made that the less Hindufication (Sikh-ization) of Punjab has already rubbed off on the Hindu Punjabis. Just like it does on Hindu pops of less Hindu region. Then the Hindu elites of those regions partake in continued less Hindu-fication. Just look at Hindu elites of Punjab and do they really instill any confidence? You know the answer.

        Punjab also suffers from lack of a distinct Hindu regional diety (seperate from Sikhs) like Ram is for UP, Krishna for Gujarat etc. So no rallying point for Hindu-fication. Once the less Hindu-zation starts it can be rarely be reversed. Kashmir, Punjab,Sindh, Bengal, North East are good examples.

        1. Pakistani Muslims are scared of Sikhs. In N. Indian eyes, this makes the Sikhs the most Hindu folks out there. Look at the Pew survey at the number of Sikhs who see their faith as similar to that of Hindus.

          Diaspora makes a lot of noise, but doesnt matter on the ground. And not like the diaspora Sikhs are aligning with Muslims.

          1. Well the context is if Punjab be more Hindu or not in a decade. Since the competing factions are Hindu and Sikhs, the answer also covers them and not really Muslims.

            And i am the last person to throw shade on Hindu-Sikh relations. But we all know, when push comes to shove (just like in 1980s Punjab) everyone will back their own team

          2. //Pakistani Muslims are scared of Sikhs.//

            Nobody in Pakistan is scared of the Sikhs. This is the first time I even heard someone say this.

            The only thing I have heard is that the Sikhs are considered one level above the Hindus, but this is mostly by Punjabi Muslims, not others. In Karachi for example, Sikhs are considered rustic/dumb and mostly a butt of jokes.

          3. ” In Karachi for example, Sikhs are considered rustic/dumb”

            But isn’t that a Karachi stereotype for all things Punjabi, not just sikh?

          4. “Nobody in Pakistan is scared of the Sikhs.”

            Lol, I had a feeling I would get such a response for my original comment. I dont think Pakistan should have anything to fear, Sikhs are a peaceful bunch for the most part.

        2. Yes all Punjabis are considered rustic, but Sikhs (sardar ji) are considered dumb/straight arrow and are used in jokes where the Sikh caricature is usually the dumb guy. I don’t know when or how this stereotype started though but it’s definitely there.

    2. This whole UP will dominate everyone narrative has been going for a hundred years. I dont think the BJP’s appeal is as simple as this. The committed BJP voter wants more Hinduness from N. Indian Muslims. They dont care how non/less Hindu Marathis, Bengalis or Tamils are becoming, as long as they are not becoming Muslim.

      1. On the contrary i would argue the ‘committed BJP voter’ has given up on N. Indian Muslim. And increasingly on even ‘non/less’ Hindus. That;s y u see not much hulabaloo on Bengal voilence, or Kashmiri pandits, or even Sabrimala etc.

        They have realized the follies of their ways. Of fighting for Hindu causes all over India. Its time for others to step up. Or allow their regions to be de-Hindu-ized.

        1. I think the modern day BJP voter is a Hindu who gave up on the Congress view of Muslims. The expectation there was that there will be a reset after independence and remaining Muslim elite will stop the tantrum politics they were practicing since the entrenchment of the Raj. A bit like Salim Mirza in Garam Hawa. Shah Bano showed otherwise.

          Now the shift is to a more confrontational mode of politics, lets see if it works.

          Regarding Hindus in MH, Bengal and South, remember that the Muslims in all these regions speak Sanskrit dominated, Brahmi scripted languages, not Persianized Urdu. So for N. Indian Hindus (and Pakistani Muslims) these people count as less Muslim people. Also racially, the Muslims in these regions are too far AASI shifted to easily identify with Turks, Persians etc (if that ever made sense in the first place).

          For N. Indian Hindus, Muslims in coastal states are a lot more ‘less Muslim’ than Hindus are ‘less Hindu’.

          1. I don’t think language matters for N-Indian Hindus as much as its for other regions. That’s; why they have coalesced around a single language-Hindi, and not Bhojpuri, Gujrati etc. Nor do they have a chip on their shoulder wrt language.

            Whether Muslims of less Hindu region speak Persian or local language is again of no consequence for N-Indian Hindus. And yeah, you are right in eyes of Pakistani these people are less-Muslim people. But when N-Indian Hindus have been separating from its own religion counterparts of other regions, what makes you think that it really cares of how much of Muslim, these regions Muslims are. Or do you really think that N-Indian Hindus sees/treats these coastal regions Muslims as some sort of better version of N-Indian Muslim? I doubt either case is true.

          2. Hindu Muslim divide in N.India crystallized as the Hindi-Urdu agitations. There is a reason Urdu is Pakistan’s national language despite being the language of 5% of the population.

          3. Saurav, perhaps the muslimness of muslims in less-hindu regions matters to north indian hindus (!!!!) in so far as they bother to percieve it. You’ve indirectly suggested now and previously the idea that Pakistan is more-muslim than Bangladesh or some other part of the subcon. I don’t see that really, but its an opinion that certain hold. If anything the NW seems more turco-afghan at best, but among the furthest culturally from the arabian peninsula.

  36. https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/called-bihari-gunda-alleges-bjp-mp-trinamools-mahua-moitra-denies-2497628

    “Called “Bihari Gunda”, Alleges BJP MP. Trinamool’s Mahua Moitra Denies

    “”What is our fault? Our fault is to develop this country. We have worked as labourers, as Hindi-speaking people, whether from Uttar Pradesh or Madhya Pradesh… we have worked hard. We have learnt lessons from Lord Ram,” Mr Dubey remarked, not naming Ms Moitra.

    He also posted a tweet tagging Trinamool chief and Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee: “The way your MP abused me using the words Bihar goonda, your party’s hatred towards north Indians and Hindi-speaking people has been exposed before the country.”

    Seems BP commentary is leaking into India’s parliament.LOL

  37. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/indian-photojournalist-danish-siddiqui-was-executed-by-taliban-report-7429108/

    “During this assault, shrapnel hit Siddiqui, and so he and his team went to a local mosque where he received first aid. As word spread, however, that a journalist was in the mosque, the Taliban attacked. The local investigation suggests the Taliban attacked the mosque only because of Siddiqui’s presence there, the report said.

    “Siddiqui was alive when the Taliban captured him. The Taliban verified Siddiqui’s identity and then executed him, as well as those with him. The commander and the remainder of his team died as they tried to rescue him,”

    The Taliban’s decision to hunt down, execute Siddiqui, and then mutilate his corpse shows that they do not respect the rules of war or conventions that govern the behaviour of the global community., the report said.

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