259 thoughts on “Open Thread – 11/15/2022 – Brown Pundits”

  1. SBF and the tango with Democrat funding is so eerily familiar with what goes on in Indian politics.

    Pakistan is finally calling out the emergence of the Indian MIC as a threat in policy discussions. Too late IMO.

    Two brown faces in the ongoing G20 summit – both practising Hindus.

    Elon Musk doing a live surgery on ailing Twitter middle management without any anesthetic is just the best!

    Iranian society needs to set a Zoroastrian factor in play. Otherwise it is exactly the kind of opponent that Political Islam has evolved to outwit and defeat.

    1. Islam already defeated Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrian don’t help themselves either by prohibiting conversion even in non-Islamic countries.

  2. https://mobile.twitter.com/prathgodbole/status/1593282774877671426?cxt=HHwWhMCo9b-PvZwsAAAA

    Pensions in India. This is why people pay 30 lakh bribe for a government job that pays 5 lakh/year. This is what the reservation fight is all about.

    India haramkhor logon ka mulk hai. Look to your left there is a haramkhor, look to the right there is a haramkhor. Every Indian is a morally bankrupt haramkhor out to swindle you. Other than IT/Pharma/Auto people everyone in India is like this. If you have parents or relatives in government service (which most Indians in America do), they are haramkhor too.

    1. @Bhimrao

      That chart is clear. India is fine overall. It is hotspots like Bihar and Uttarakhand that breach into high ratios.

      Telangana, Maharashtra, Karnataka are all doing well (sub-20% ratios)

      Have to remind myself everytime I read a “India-bitch” post from you, it’s actually your own region you are bitching about.

      1. I will concede this. The other places that I have lived in India (Bangalore, Pune) did not have the same level of desperation for government jobs. This is not something to be smug and happy about for you either. It is my region but your country too.

  3. “Elon Musk doing a live surgery on ailing Twitter middle management without any anesthetic is just the best!”

    LoL. It’s more like performing autopsy on a live person. the result is foregone.

    1. Slight correction it did not cross the Karman line, so not a ‘space launch’. Today they launched just a small suborbital sounding rocket launch so not that big a deal. Solid motor, (possibly) rotational stabilization, nothing too fancy either. Most likely showing off to investors and testing subsystems. With this launch they have (almost) reached the level of top tier amateur rocketry folk in America.

      But a big achievements nonetheless, big congratulations.

  4. Qatar bans alcohol sales in the world cup in a big FU to European crticism.

    Western fans will now experience a superior way to live.

    1. Good for Qatar. Europeans still have the same arrogance of their grandfathers without the same power and wealth. Now if only Qatar would do something about the US team displaying the gay flag.

    2. Qatar has spent USD 200 Billion+ on this stunt. That is more than the entire annual GDP of UP. They own FIFA and every other national football association’s ass with it and will enjoy them as they see fit.

      Have you guys been following Saudi takeover of pro golf with their LIV tour which is taking on PGA?

      Also, if I was at the Olympic Association. I would now figure out a way to make Saudi or UAE host the summer games given no one else wants or can afford to host them.

      Oil and Gas pricing is such a scam, these folks don’t do any more work than last year when the prices go up. Their ‘crop’ does not get spoilt by rain or tough winters. It is a commodity that does not behave like a commodity.

    3. Qureshi, incest and being a vassal of the White man for 4/5ths of your ruling Poobah’s existence isn’t “superior”.

      Europe is taller and lives longer for a reason while your ilk, for the most part are mirroring their TFR the only advantage (if you call it that) you had.

        1. >Tall people that cannot reproduce go extinct.
          Uighurs aren’t tall, no need to bring them up.

          >That is clearly inferior.
          Xi dada agrees hence the laudable vocational education and training centres policy. A tad harsh towards the Uighurs in my opinion.

    4. Europeans whoring themselves for money. This is classic.

      https://www.dawn.com/news/1721896/on-eve-of-world-cup-fifa-chief-accuses-qatars-critics-of-hypocrisy

      ‘In lengthy, and sometimes angry, opening remarks at a news conference on the eve of the start of the tournament, Infantino rounded on European critics of the host nation over the issues of migrant workers and LGBT rights.

      “I am European. For what we have been doing for 3,000 years around the world, we should be apologising for the next 3,000 years before giving moral lessons,” he said.’

      Hahahahahahahah…

      Paisa bolta hai…

    5. this will probably the last time any ‘muslim’ country will host such an event. after ,tricking; them to host these events for ‘prestige’, all other lobbies , such as lgbtqxz, human rights, pro israel, anti muslim etc who are opposed to them will gang up and make the hosts miserable.
      now there will be banners in support of iranian anti hijab movement, workers rights, gay rights and all other irritants.
      india will experience the same, including kashmir related when its turn to host will come

  5. Saudi Arabia has realized it is much more profitable to use their excess oil profits to buy Western sports teams, real estate, and businesses than to fund Wahhabism in Muslim countries. I followed Saudi investment in EPL (Newcastle FC) and the general British soccer fan is just livid, as one by one, their teams are being bought out by the oil sheikhs.

    The oil&gas market is rigged, always was since these are the most precious commodities, and governments with deep pockets or geopolitical concerns will always interfere in this industry like they do in agriculture or the airline industry. Many countries have big O&G reserves however, but Arabs seem to be the only one that got obscenely rich out of it so kudos to their business and political acumen.

    The funny thing in this Qatar alcohol ban in stadiums is that it comes 2 days before the start of the world cup and seems to be in response to all the LGBT criticism the country was receiving from European media and politicians.. despite NYT claiming that “beer is a fixture at sporting events around the world”, it seems nobody outside of EU or USA really gives a shit about it.

    1. “ Arabs seem to be the only one that got obscenely rich out of it so kudos to their business and political acumen.”

      Per capita oil reserves, not acumen. they are blessed by the Parabrahman in that regard.

      1. No it is good business and political acumen if you are an oil rich nation and avoid getting invaded or destroyed with your resources plundered. Also 20 years ago everyone was predicting that the Arabs would squander it all. The 2005 movie Syriana even has a dialogue where the protagonist predicts that the Arabs will go back to sheep herding in two generations. However nothing of the sort seems to be happening, quite the opposite.

        1. No it is good business and political acumen if you are an oil rich nation and avoid getting invaded or destroyed with your resources plundered

          Tell that to the Iraqis.

          More generally, Saudi Arabia has a per capita GDP equivalent to a fairly poor European country like Lithuania (nominal, not PPP). The only truly rich Arab states are microstates like Qatar, UAE etc. And even they aren’´t as rich as Norway, Denmark etc.

          Arab states have done better than Venezuela, but that is damning with faint praise.

          1. Principia, what are you talking about? The Arabian peninsula was the most impoverished region in the world just 70 years ago, now it’s one of the richest. Qatar is the richest country in the world and that is including 90% of its population that is temporary migrant. UAE is right up there as well. Saudi’s PPP GDP is better than Britian or France, and that is also inclusive of its migrant population.
            Ive been to Eastern and Central Europe, sorry but they don’t even hold a candle to these countries.

            Sumit- the era of plunder is never over. Outside the Arabian peninsula, most of the oil and gas rich nations or regions are under turmoil or in political impasse and few in the shadows directly benefit from it. Whether that’s Iraq, Venezuela, Libya, Nigeria, Iran, Russia or Ukraine. Canada is politically impotent and getting exploited by US companies. Pakistan does not have the capability to either extract its natural resources, nor the political structure to avoid squandering the said resource. If Pakistan was blessed with so much oil, I guarantee you the country would have been another Venezuela or Iraq.

        2. Oil discovered in saudi in 1938, by that time appetite for outright plunder has been low.

          Geopolitics game in 20th century was a matter of balancing American interests with your own to maximize rent extraction.

          Pakistanis are much better at this sort of thing than the Gulf Arabs, but have been dealt a much worse hand in terms of per capita resources.

          So now Pakistanis go to find economic opportunities in Arab countries instead of the other way around.

  6. I hate living in the here and the now. I would like living 50 yrs from now. Much better data to figure it all out from.

  7. This is admittedly tangential but interesting nonetheless.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/jodi-kantor-talks-jewish-moments-in-she-said-new-film-on-her-weinstein-reporting/

    The reporter at the NYT reveals that Weinstein repeatedly invoked their shared Jewishness to make her cut him some slack. When people are asking how Weinstein got away for so long, I think this must be part of the answer. Chappelle’s monologue on SNL about Jews in Hollywood and the Kyrie/Kanye blow-up points in the same direction.

    Still, kudos to Kantor for rejecting the tribal appeals. For some, their gender identity is stronger than their religious one. I suspect we will see similar things going forward in the 2nd and 3rd generation of South Asian diasporas, as they complete their assimilation to Western norms. Being brown or (insert religious identity) will be less important than being a woman when there is a clash between the two compared to FOBs.

    1. Most Jews no longer practice their ancestral religion. But it’s hard for most people to be perfectly rationalist so they have been practicing the religion of far left politics for the past 3-4 generations.

      Similar dynamics happening among the 2nd generation browns in the West.

    1. Baeja gave the warning shot. He legit saved Pak. Off terror list. In better graces of US. China still helping. Imran towing the line.

      1. Azadi khoon mangti hai… taking the enemy head on like the Turks did with their army.

        Pakistan does not have the balls for a proper revolution. Khoon mein gaddari aur chugal-khori hai yahan ke logon mein. Darponk bin pendi ke lote types…

        But Imran has done as good as can be expected. Even Rahul Gandhi is copying him with his yatra.

  8. $200K undergrad degrees are worth it for Americans because:
    0) Tech jobs.
    1) Even though average American makes 50K-ish, decent ones make a lot more by the time their kids are in college. A couple: wife nurse, husband local trucker can bring in upwards of 130K/year in most places, with some brain (buying some local business) they can and do go upwards of 200K/year by the time they are 50 and their children are 18 and ready for college. This is why you see Indian doctors in suburbs living with plumbers.
    2) Where do you spend all the money 401K gets you? There is only so much travel, iphones, and house you can buy. Education pretends to be a nobler pursuit. Something you have to do (like property tax) if you have to live among elites.
    3) Marriage: finally and most importantly, education gives the polish, the twead jacket, the sueade shoes, the cashmere muffler to make your projeny marketable. He might have a IQ of 105 but education gives the right words, how to be classy. Intro to high value spouses, basically get to know folks whose fathers own the local car dealerships, food processing plants, concrete business, ACE hardware, 20 FF restaurants… Right marriage can be far more valuable than the right career in the US. This is why FOB Indians never get the ‘elite’ status gora people, and have to settle for just nerdy Chemistry/Engineering grad students whose parents were losers or FOB. The ‘elite’ are out for the ‘elite’

    ‘Everyone is cheap. They are just cheap at different stores.’ -Russell Peters

  9. Storm grows over identikit ‘fake fans’ in Qatar as FIFA president Gianni Infantino claims it is RACIST to claim World Cup supporter groups are paid actors
    Videos shared online show large groups of men, mostly of Indian origin, wearing the colours of national teams including England, Germany and Argentina, leading to speculation they had been ‘hired’ by Qatar to build atmosphere for the competition.

    The groups of fans are kitted out in football kits and near-identical banners reading ‘England fans Qatar’ and ‘Germany fans Qatar’ along with drums and instruments not usually associated with supporters from those countries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11446929/Storm-grows-fake-fans-Qatar-World-Cup-FIFA-president-claims-RACIST.html

    1. Lol. This shows the moral bankruptcy of woke political posturing.

      There are genuine Indian fans of European FC clubs. (Yes it’s weirdly popular among some subsection of urban west-phile people) but not that many.

      And also not of random national soccer teams.

      The guys look like migrant workers who were given the day off.

      So the FIFA president is using racism as an excuse to go on the attack against critics.

      1. actually did some more research, and I think maybe these are genuine fans.

        there are instagram accounts of called “england fans kerala” with and stuff. maybe it is a mallu thing.

        1. Hopefully they form some teams and Indian soccer rises more. It is growing slowly. It can be a good sport for Indians.

        2. They are real fans. Came up in a google search. Kerala has a football culture not known to most Indians.

    2. Will some enterprising Indian journalist in Qatar find out what Indians in Qatar get paid for the World Cup hustle?

  10. Just learned that creatine boosts iq for vegetarians . Though other studies show it makes no difference for young adults. what to make of it?. If this has some value, it could help India, the country with most vegetarians.

    1. I take creatine for strength training. Solid dose of 5g a day isn’t even that easy to get from eating a good amount of meat. It is one of the safest and best supplements. Not sure about mental data. But physically definitely beneficial for explosive stuff. Nice little summary with some good food sources.

      https://fitbod.me/blog/natural-food-sources-creatine/

    2. We’re going to need a lot more than that.

      Being a doctor, my (Hindu, trad Brahmin) family badgers me ceaselessly with medical complaints. Anemia comes up disproportionately frequently, and some of the cases I get are surprisingly refractory. I send them to Indian labs with robust workups, try to find other causes (eg parasites/malabsorption, chronic disease), but oftentimes all I find is just really bad iron deficiency. My anecdotal patients are not science, but I looked up various papers on this topic and they all corroborate my experience.

      Something’s gotta give. I’m more sympathetic to traditionalism than most people, but if you want to keep Tradition X, you have to find a way to make it work (Y). Or someone else will come by and offer Y, while also bundling in cultural change Z.

      1. so, what deficiencies can we add to this list, iron, vit b12(takes care of creatine), vit d , perhaps some exercise. I am asking. Even if it makes 5 iq points for some, for others it would add more than 5 to 20. Marginal improvements are all fine. One seriously needs to study all this and how much it costs, both given age. All this inspired by this thread.

        https://twitter.com/hyderabaddoctor/status/1594004378381619200

        How a women essentially became mad and lost all sense due to poor vit b12. And once doctor fixed that was back to close to being normal. For her, it must have made a massive difference.

        https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/vitamin-b12-deficiency-five-areas-on-your-body-that-can-show-signs/photostory/93616924.cms?picid=93816529

        https://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/vitamin-b12-deficiency/article6710861.ece

        Somewhere from 47% to 70% of adult population and 80% of pre school children suffer from vit b12 deficiency. It seems massive. And if literature on this study has some basis. it could give perhaps upto 10 iq points in significant % of people. I believe, India should begin with nutrition, we also have massive malnutrition leading to wasting away of millions of our children. And i am not worried about tradition, one can create powder and take in water or milk while making it tasty everyday. A simple change.

      2. Do they also tend to have B12 deficiency which then leads to anemia ?

        Heard this from a relative who is a GP in an Indian heavy area.

        1. I notice enough obese heavy animal diet eaters with B12 deficiency too. Some of it is drugs like metformin. Sometimes digestive issues for a variety of causes, especially those affecting the terminal ileum. Elegant diagnoses like pernicious anemia do come up.

          Not sure if it’s more just a vegetarian Desi thing. Again, not sure what my family does right. We don’t have it. Maybe lot of dairy. Not sure.

          Vitamin D is the main issue that comes up. But that’s most melanated people in the type of climate I grew up in.

          One thing is for sure. Go to the doctor. Get your blood work done. Fix your issues.

          General advice. Regardless of veg vs. Non veg: Eat mostly plants, enough protein @1.6g/kg, sleep enough, drink enough water, lift heavy on a good strength program, do some form of cardio at least a 150 min a week, and don’t stress too much.

      3. @HM. My whole family is Jain. From my knowledge, even in extended, the only ones anemic on labs are those few with beta thal trait. And that’s just a couple.

        Idk what my family does right with vegetarian diets. But my mom, dad, sister, and I all have normal hemoglobin. Mine is like a 15.5 usually. Higher a few times because I got blood work after working out and was a bit dehydrated. I have good strength and muscle.

        You are right though. Many vegetarian Indians have a trash diet. They barely eat actual vegetables. They eat very little protein. All carbs and fats. People need to eat with intention. Desis are really bad about this. I notice the young generation is better though.

        I also see plenty of obese Americans with a massively protein heavy diet also show up with IDA. This is despite a rather exhaustive serologic and GI workup negative and no cause of bleeding found. So I don’t think we know just everything yet.

        On another note, I do take creatine 5g a day which is hard even to get from a meat heavy diet. That requires like over a pound of steak a day, just to give an idea.

        One can do a vegetarian diet right. It is easier to screw it up. But it’s quite doable. But a samosa, jalebi, kachori, idli, roti, super watert dal, potato subjzi, and rice diet just doesn’t cut it at all.

        1. @thewarlock, even family you have in India? I’m a Jain Gujju Baniya as well, but I see women with low hemoglobin all the time.
          Most Baniyas originating from ‘Gurjaradesh’ seem to be quite similar, I believe it is due to some kind of founder effect. But I have met some of them who are quite stocky and big-boned, distinct from any other Indian population, except some NW upper castes.

          1. In India, not sure of numbers. Most sure in my own family and extended American family. My mom said her Hb was always normal.

            I have some big boned family. But I am not big boned. I just strength trained a lot.

            For women, it can be a greater propensity for heavier menstrual bleeding for whatever reason. Beta thal trait is also there. Hard to say exact effect. But there was a meme on ABCDesis reddit about S Asian women in general being anemic. Many of them do eat meat still.

            The men I don’t think have this stereotype. My male cousins in America all tend to gave Hgb 14-16 range.

          2. Testosterone increases Hgb, do that’s probably why men are fine. This is to the point that some guys on steroids donate blood regularly just to have a normal Hgb.

            I think it’s via Epo upreg pathway. But I have to double check.

        2. Warlock is romanticizing vegetarian diets. The reason why people seem to be unhealthy on vegetarian is simply because vegetables are quite unappetizing on their own and need to be paired with fats to make them palatable. This is why Indian cuisine uses vegetable oils so lavishly. Not just that, since vegetables are lacking in calories and have low satiety, the bulk of the caloric intake comes from grain which itself brings other problems. Once you go past the psychological hurdle of eating meat, a meat based diet is almost always better than being vegetarian.

          Personally I feel better than ever since I eliminated vegetables from my diet, reduced use of grains ( bread/rice) and drastically reduced the use of vegetable/seed oils substituting it with butter/ghee or olive/coconut oil. Now only eat meats, dairy and fruits with occasional grains ( roti/ rice). It pretty much resolved a decade long issue of dandruff which now is almost gone.. Improved chronic sinusitis which led to better sleep quality. Blood results are all good and only vegetables I eat are onions and tomatoes. So it seriously leads to questioning the efficacy of veggies at all.

          1. Different people thrive on different diets. If that works for you, then good. This can be gut microbiome or taste or whatever. I don’t agree with meat eating philosophically. But that’s a different story.

            I like the taste of vegetables. But call me crazy. Only meats and dairy can be quite high in saturated fat, which isn’t so great for cardiovascular health. So be careful. But if you keep it lean enough and get all your macros and micros, then go for it. Shouldn’t change much health wise.

            You sound like you’re on a Stan Efferding style vertical diet. Elliot Hulse likes it too.

          2. The most meat heavy diet Eskimos have a very poor life expectancy. More plant based and carb heavy people like Okinawans live the longest. There are enough examples like this.

            Heavily plant based diets are better. Evidence shows this. But if heavy meat base works for you and your body handles it well, then good.
            But data wise, for the general population, more plant based is better. Grains aren’t the evil boogeyman either. Excess calories ans refined sugar varieties tend to be the main culprits along with excess salt and saturated fats.

            Red meats are also loaded with carcinogens. But that’s another story. Leave it to the individual. People can gamble with their bodies how they see fit. But on a broad level, more plant based is superior.

          3. Lol both you and Warlock are too extreme. Personally, eating both meat and vegetables in moderate amounts is the way to go.

          4. Eskimos (innuit and other native peoples) have slightly lower life expectancy due to a host of reasons other than diet. They live in some of the harshest conditions on earth that are not suitable for habitation and no study is done to study the effect that has on quality and quantity of life. The natives are a defeated people, and the biggest reason of lower life expectancy is suicide. High cost of living, rampant poverty, high alcoholism, smoking and drugs and relatively little physical activity in the cold. This is not a group that you want to study for effects of a meat only diet.

            Most of the science based nutrition advice is misleading and contradictory and changes based on the decade we are living in.

            The safest bet is to go back to what humans and their primate ancestors ate for millions of years before the agricultural revolution as our bodies are best adapted for that . That means meat, organs, bone marrow, and fruits, should form the bulk of the caloric intake.

            I don’t think there is any plant based diet, since plants in plant based diet barely even makeup more than 20% of the calories.. rest of it is coming from oils, grains, nuts and dairy. Similarly, most people who are considered meat eaters, barely eat enough meat (they barely would have 20% protein, if not less) to call their diet meat based. Fact is, bulk of the calories in both groups come from grains, sugars and oils and these are problem foods. If you eliminate them, you can still sustain a meat based diet but it’s going to be really hard to sustain a vegetarian diet

      4. But I agree. If vegetarian desis want to be lazy and not think, it is conceivably easier to get better health outcomes from a meat heavier diet, calories equated. And that will come with loss of other cultural elements, as you more theoretically and eloquently stated. Stuff like colon cancer may increase. But that’s a small price to pay, if insulin resistance comes down.

        But I am optimistic people (the masses) can thrive on a vegetarian diet just fine. No animal products like vegan is harder. But vegetarian is perfectly doable. Wrestlers of Northern India have done it for a long time. I look at the diets of vegetarian wrestlers from India and mine accidently ends of mirroring theirs. It is interesting.

  11. Qatar’s hosting of the Footbal WC will be a huge boost for the cultural awareness of “Arabic/Islamic oil-state degeneracy”.

    Football basically assisted the “Europeanisation” of the continent in the last 75 years with a substitutive process of strengthening local identities. In doing so, part of the identity has been co-opted into the game itself.

    The social function of football in channelling young adult males into societal groups is still very strong. There is also strong evidence of loyalty being passed from father to son – like a filial rite.

    Just like the Americans “don’t get football”, the Arabs don’t get it either. You don’t invite your Italian neighbours to an Italian meal you have cooked – unless you are Italian, of course.

    Just seeing clips of football ceremonies in Qatar being stopped for 2 minutes because it is prayer time. This is sacrilege – the Arabs won’t understand it at all.

    It is not money envy either. Arabs have almost no sporting achievements – none in the modern era of high powered male group games.

    Upstairs I saw Quereshi and Principia discuss GDP, money and living standards. Group sports are a strong indicator of developmental indicators especially “peak male” pursuits.

    Eastern Europe has a very strong “alpha male” culture that is also backed by sporting fitness and achievement. India has successfully broken into a cloistered Anglo sport with BOTH money and sporting achievements. Therefore it commands respect. And is welcomed.

    The average male on the street sees no GDP per capita, PPP or nominal for the Arabs – all he sees is a group of pretenders posturing like alphas. No respect for that.

    The aftermath of 9/11 caused an American political re-orientation that resulted in net research momentum for fracking, wind/solar and EVs. Basically “Pivot away from Arab oil”.

    This World Cup will also produce unintended blowback – what exactly is unknown to me.

    1. Zidane , Benzema, Mohamed Salah. They are kind of a big deal in a sport that requires maximum athleticism and skill.

      1. I don’t agree with Urga at all, but there are different types of Arabs.

        Gulf Arabs aren’t that known for athletic endeavours.

        Qatar offers citizenship + payments to athletes from other countries to play for them.

        Qataris have a different type of old school “alpha male” mentality.

      2. @girmit

        You scraped the Arab barrel for sporting successes and you come up with two Frenchmen of African origin and an African!!

        How many Arab countries have won any sort of professional team sport being played among high HDI countries??

        South Asia has better HDI than the Arabs on the sporting front.

        I also know where you are coming from. Some BP members are excessively phenotype focused and overestimate it’s valence in all areas.

        The whole Arab world is a sporting backwater. I don’t know what’s happening there but you look at the metrics – these guys do very badly at team sports.

        I suspect that Arab Islam is basically a middle aged hierarchical manager’s religion. It does not do a lot for young males in terms of incentivisation and group dynamics. Alpha males are culled into obedience very early on.

        1. Qatar is current AFC champion.

          And Benzema is not scraping the barrel, he is current Ballon d’oR winner.

          And lol @ thinking Cricket is a ‘team sport’.

          Ugra should remind us which team sport Tamils excel in

          1. How many ethnic Qataris are there on that team?

            They run this thing called the Aspire academy and try to bring the best athletes from around the world to play for their squad.

            I don’t think this is a bad thing. But they are derided as “mercenaries” by some.

            There are only something like 250,000 Qatari citizens in a population of 2.5 million. And then a few lower caste naturalized citizens.

            There are various caste rules to keep the citizenship exclusive. (For eg. Qatari Citizenship on passed only through the male line)

            This is a different sort of old school “alpha male” or dominant group behaviour as I was saying earlier.

            You can compare with some poor Dagestanis excelling at wrestling while living under Russia’s boot with decadent Qataris. And come to your own conclusions about which is more “alpha”.

          2. 4 our of 11 on the pitch were ethnic qataris, but most others were also born their and naturalized. But leave that aside, Saudi Arabia just beat Argentina. Argentina had 36 game winning streak, unbeaten since last 3 years, Copa America champions, and 2022 favorites to win the World Cup.

            All Im saying is, these are stupid theories about ”team sports”.

    2. There is so much to learn from the oil mafia OPEC. How to do extortion, how all the ‘free market’, ‘effect on ecology/economy’ … everything is a lie. Create something people can’t live without and squeeze hard.

      People outrage over stupid things all the time. OPEC, Google search, … these are the real deal. Emirates airlines, Gmail, … are all subterfuges.

  12. Bringing up a topic from the past…but this really surprised me….

    https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/11/13/skin-color-of-south-asian-groups/#more-7192

    Looking at the Indian data, the middle castes of S.India (Kapu, Reddy, Naidu) have almost the same melanin index as the Rors of Haryana (43 to around 42).

    Am I reading something wrong?

    Is that the very same Rors that people can’t stop talking about being the ‘purest Aryans’ in the land? The almost pure ANI race? And they’re not much different in skin colour to South Indian people? What’s the deal-io?

    1. Skin color is a tiny proportion of overall genome. It can be biased easily via selection. Might imply that Rors may have even selected for darker skin and others for lighter? But go read my about the complex relationship between phenotype and genotype. Razib has some good old posts.

      Most Rors to me just look classic NW non dalit caste. If I didn’t know and guessed genotype based on phenotype (not most accurate as above), I would have guessed 30% steppe 30% aasi and 40% IVC like a steppe shifted N Indian Brahmin. But their steppe levels average in upper 30s to almost 40%.

      1. @the warlock How do I find your articles? It’s just surprising to me that there’s such little difference there…even in facial features the difference is not that extreme. Differences are overestimated across Indian groups due to pride and a “my caste is special” feeling. And to emphasise this on Facebook they’ll post a pic of the lightest person in their community next to the darkest Paniya person to make their point lol. But I take your point genotype is not phenotype.

        @sumit Maybe but it’s hot in South India too!

    2. Being out in the sun more often? There are other genetic indicators which put Rors as being squarely distinct from south Indian middle castes such as the highest frequency of the lactose tolerance allele in southern Asia. Skin color on the other hand can be affect by other things.
      Overall, outside of Rors, even geographically there is a difference. For example skulls from Haryana, Punjab and UP in general (without any info on caste) have a lower height-length index than South Indian skulls.

  13. For the first time a European leader calls out the hypocrisy of present day colonial practices of another European country. Watch the videos with subtitles in English

    Italy’s prime minister, Giorgia Meloni — you’ve got to listen to it in Italian with the sound on — pretty well demonstrated that this was someone who full well knew the damage and hypocrisy of France, whose policies effectively enticed migrants to dump their homelands and come up to Europe for the welfare. Meloni’s edgy working-class Roman accent speaking in the sharpest of furious tones, pretty well conveys the Italian sentiment and is something to hear.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/italy-2-0-france-meloni-crushes-macron-amid-migrant-crisis

    1. Her comments are not new for Italian politicians. Italy and France have a weird hateboner and most of the hate seems to come from the Italians, tbh.

      The leader of the leftist-populist “5 star movement” also used to rant about the CFA franc. While I agree that it is essentially a colonial instrument, her idea that if the CFA franc was abolished then all of a sudden West Africa would flourish is nonsense. Even more stupid is the implication that migrant flows would stop. I would favor getting rid of it, but nobody shoulve have any illusions that the ground reality would materially change.

      Honestly, this rant is just a way for her to kill two flies with one stone: pretend that she can do anything about the illegal aliens flowing in while simultaneously blame someone else for it.

      This is what politicians do and she’s good at it, hence that’s why she is the PM.

    1. Think the Gay/Progressive-Muslim alliance in the West will end after this World Cup?

      No, because their common enemy, the white conservative right, is still too strong (and by some measures, at least in Europe, getting stronger).

      White leftists will always care 10X more about the white right-wingers than about moslems because deep down they don’t view moslems as one of their own. They also have a more accurate understanding of how weak moslems are in the West.

      I remember reading some crazy stuff 10 years ago when some Israeli-funded activists were pushing “Sharia law will take over the West”. Of course, that was always a psy-op to drum up support for war in the Middle-East against Israel’s enemies by creating shared “buy-in”. But nobody believes this now. Moslems are weak domestically and abroad. The four major powers (USA, China, Russia and arguably India) are all non-moslem.

      And besides, I am actually starting to root for the Qataris in this world cup. It’s pretty insufferable to see entitled white liberals trying to publicly shame them for not being pro-LGBT enough. But this is confined to the international arena. Domestically, white liberals will maintain optics because they care much more about other whites politically and will ally with almost anyone as long as it can hurt their rivals within the white camp.

      1. Reminds me of the numerous Roman and Byzantine Civil Wars where they fought amongst themselves but in the end the Germans and the Turks conquered them all.

      2. I agree with your broader point btw. This is definetely how the whites view the situation. But they are stupid to do so. Whites are declining in all social, economic, cultural and demographic measures. Whats more, its happening in their own countries. White liberals might think that they can use minorities in their petty civil wars against white conservatives but at some point the minorities will decide to just get rid of their overlords. We have seen situations like this throughout history.

  14. This is potentially important for South Asia, particularly Bangladesh and Pakistan:

    https://twitter.com/SStapczynski/status/1594603725452365824

    China and Qatar have just signed a massive LNG contract. Apparently, Qatar will begin exporting huge volumes starting from 2026. Having a long-term contract is important because you don’t have to pay spot prices.

    Europe is scooping up all available LNG on the market, leaving next to nothing for poorer South Asian countries. Now this hammerblow comes from China.

    As an aside, the antics that white liberals (often European) permit themselves to do against Qatar’s world cup bid is stupid given Qatar’s importance in solving the natural gas equation now that Russia is out. But Europe will manage. Neither Pakistan nor Bangladesh have the money to outbid either Europe or China.

    Of course, the world could have avoided this nonsense if there was a rapid nuclear build-out but most of the developed West preferred to close down or degrade their nuclear capacity in the wake of Fukushima and now not only is Europe paying the price but so are poorer countries.

    India in this context probably has a better hand, given that they use relatively little natural gas and mostly rely on coal + nuclear for baseload and increasingly build out renewables on top of that.

    1. But Europe will manage. Neither Pakistan nor Bangladesh have the money to outbid either Europe or China.
      Do proposed price caps affect LNG too.
      Anyway, there is Russian oil and gas.
      Sri Lanka has been buying Russian oil at sharp discount (I recall a number in the USD60’s/barrel). Long term contract and on credit too as SL is broke.
      The added advantage is the Russian oil is heavy crude, and ideal for the one and only refinery in SL at Sapugaskanda. It was built by the Iranians in the 60’s to process Iranian crude.
      Because Sapugaskanda refines heavy crude that means we get diesel too.
      So now with rationing (QR code) there are no lines for fuel. Black market price for fuel without QR code is about 5% more. During the fuel crisis with long lines, 50-100% more above controlled price.
      Question is what happens if stricter US/EU sanctions are applied. I fairly confident SL will find a work around. We are good at that kind of thing. However, with that kind of mentality and ethos, I doubt we will be a rich country as its always a work around, not the discipline, commitment to go that extra mile to become truly wealthy. It will be country with a low key easy going life.

      https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/sri-lanka-source-crude-oil-imports-russia-sanctions-fuel-shortage-2022-10

    1. Indian Twitter is better off. Not in any technical sense though. Removal of the left’s shadow bans and reflexive curbs on Hindu Twitter.

      Koo, the Indian rival to Twitter, was set up to grow a right-leaning ecosystem. Too bad that they are now robbed of a selling point.

  15. Responding here because the reply button disappears once a thread gets long enough.

    Qatar is the richest country in the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    So according to World Bank’s 2021 numbers (I am not using the 2022 “projections” from the IMF since those numbers are just guesses), Qatar is the ninth richest country in the world. That’s respectable but far from “richest in the world”.

    Of course, this all assumes that all guest workers are properly counted. If they are not, then Qatar’s per capita GDP is even lower and would certainly move them from ninth position to well below top ten.

    Saudi’s PPP GDP

    PPP is a fake meme.

    I’ve been to Eastern and Central Europe, sorry but they don’t even hold a candle to these countries.

    Eastern Europe includes countries like Moldova (genuine 3rd world) with countries like Czechia (arguably 1st world). It has crazy amounts of economic diversity, much like the MENA region come to think of it.

    Is Saudi Arabia really that much better than the Czech Republic? I highly doubt it. I was talking explicitly about Saudi Arabia and not UAE/Qatar when I made the comparison. Moreover, I mentioned Lithuania and Czech Republic and not the entire region.

    You’re moving the goalposts here by including the entire gulf region (instead of just Saudis) and comparing the entire Eastern European region, instead of a like-to-like comparison between Saudi vs Czechia/Lithuania. I stand by my comments that there’s nothing indicating that Saudis are far ahead. Saudi Arabia only has a per capita GDP of $25000. That may be impressive to a Pakistani but it isn’t to a Westerner.

    1. PPP is not a fake meme.

      It is the reason why iphones get manufactured in China and India. It is a measure of monetary relativity between two different pegs.

      You are asked to spend 1000 USD in New York or 80000 rupees in Bangalore and survive “x” number of days. The difference in x is the measure of relativity.

      Actually PPP will help you articulating your point about Qatar and Saudi Arabia. These two countries are food insecure, water scarce, population deficient and technical manpower insufficient.

      But over-compensated with energy sufficiency.

      Other countries that have a better distribution of these varied resources can quickly overtake Qatar on PPP.

      Which is the case for Eastern Europe!

  16. IMO Qataris are totally lying about the $200 billion cost. Numbers don’t add up even if you add roads.

    I was digging and found this:
    8 venues for FIFA, the biggest one is built by (company from) China, second biggest by Italy, then in no particular order one each built by France, Romania, UK(Cyprus), India, Turkey. The gimmicky temporary (probably cheaper?) 8th one was built by a Qatari company.

    $200 billion is total BS.

    1. This lines up with Qatari foreign policy. They bought a few dozen each of F-15s, Rafale, and Eurofighters even though they are similar, competing aircrafts from different countries.

    2. Agreed, don’t think it cost even a fifth of what the stated cost by Qatar is. They already had most of the infrastructure, just had to build a few stadiums, hotels and one train line.. all are concentrated within 50 mile area. Chinese companies built it for cheap with South Asian labour. I would guess that half the cost was in the bribes that were paid to European politicians and FIFA/UEFA.

      1. S Asian migrant laborers are some of the hardest working people in the world. Absolute hell to work in the sun like that. Of course, beats working in S Asia it self, where the pay is a fraction and the sun is just as strong.

      2. They are counting random shipping ports and almost all housing development to make up the number. Everything is inflated. I don’t think even $20 Billion was spent, forget the $200 Billion with a B.

        ‘Chinese companies built it’

        I would like to believe that this is not true. Pakistan does this in awarding contracts but not inviting global tenders is a very sub optimal thing. China is good, but not that good.

        L&T India’s premier EPC company has built one stadium, roads, and metro tunnels. Well over $1 Bn in last ten years.

        Afcon (Shapoorji-Pallonji) the largest civil engineering firm in India won bits of the contract for the port terminal.

        If anyone asked me I would never hosted it, I would have built a Disney-Land or Universal-Studios theme park, large art museums (like the Abu Dhabi Louvre), Opera house, a kick ass touristy mosque like the Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque in Abu Dhabi or the Hassan II in Casablanca, now the Imam Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab Mosque in Qatar is cool and over time I might begin to see it as graceful and the Abu Dhabi one as kitsch but at the moment the Qatari one appears ugly. Qatar’s airport is already amazing so good job, the airline is very good, I would chill on the religion bit otherwise reasonably well off folks (like myself) will never visit for tourism. I would have built enough items to fill a 7 day itinerary for a family on vacation. Basically if I was in charge Qatar would be more like UAE.

        Qataris are becoming alarmingly obese, perhaps worse than the Americans.

  17. LMAO I don’t know if I said this before but Anthrogenica is just a forum filled with deluded North Indians (actually, Indians in general) just jerking each other off and inflating each others egos. Just Punjabis out there sucking each other off about how they apparently look like this or that when in reality everyone here in Canada or elsewhere knows they are as TYPICAL as it gets LMAO.

    I mean genetically speaking, they fall straight and undeniably on the ‘Indian’ cline anyways lmao there is nothing wrong with that either . like damn

    Razib, if you feel like I shouldn’t be mentioning this kind of stuff or talking about this other-website stuff, tell me. I apologize and will not do so again.

  18. Why is S Asia bad at soccer? It is a low cost game. All different body types can stylistically adapt to it. S Asia should pick soccer over cricket. Probably better health wise too.

    1. Low bone density, height, and muscle mass. Can’t compete in contact sports.

      Can do well in hockey but won’t translate to football.

      Punjabis claim to be big and burly but look like dwarfs in front of Europeans.

      Even Japanese and Korean find it hard while being so much more skilled. I’d put Japanese skill level and tactics at par with tier-2 European teams.

      Last world cup they lost to the Belgians even after leading early. The Belgians treated them like kids, scoring headers for fun.

      It is what it is.

      1. I disagree, football does not require raw physicality that much to excel. You just need to be able to run fast for long periods of time so cardio is essential, and secondary are footballing skills that come with lot of practice, lastly is management and tactics. Muscle mass is actually an impediment past a certain point (Ronaldo walks around 170-175 lbs at 6’1).

        The only reason S. Asians don’t play football is a because cricket has overshadowed everything else in this region. Before cricket became this popular, the region was poor and footballing infrastructure was non-existent.

        1. That certain point is way beyond even your above average subcontinental.

          England is a good case study. The total “Asian” population there is higher than the total Black population. Yet there aren’t any desi players of note. On the other hand just look at the national team to see Black representation.

          An odd one like Zidane Iqbal or Hamza Chaudhury who makes it turns out to be mixed race with sturdier Arab/African blood in him.

          If India fixes its sports system and if a significant number of non-matronly ethnicities (i.e. not Bengal, Kerala) direct their interests toward the sports, then we might start to see India qualify for the odd world cup. We’d probably be an also-ran getting drubbed 8-0 in group rounds.

          Bangladesh is not going to qualify for the world cup in the next hundred years no matter their HDI or GDP. Bengalis are not meant for athletics.

          Pakistan has some physically robust races but they’re also not going to qualify because of a lack of system and liabilities like Sindhis and Punjabis.

          1. Wait are we talking about the type of ‘football’ of where a 5’7 145lb guy is considered the GOAT ?

          2. People are overplaying genetics on this blog, understandable. But football is not physcial. Look today Japan just beat Germany convincingly.
            Skill matters more in football than physicality. Almost all football superstars current or past were not genetic outliers (Ronaldo, Maradonna, Pele, Zidane, C Ronaldo, Messi, etc they are all skillful)

            You can make the argument for American sports that are limited by genetics because they are heavily physical (which is why blacks dominate in it).

          3. You need speed and skills to win a match, yes. But you need more to sustain a career. A single muscle injury or a ligament tear and you are done. Modern football is extremely athletic.

            There are way too many small tricky players who fell by the way side due to injuries. Michael Owen et al.

            If you say that some 100% desi person will one day play in PL then I’d agree. Given the sheer number of people and growing interest, you’ll produce some outliers.

            If you tell me a subcontinental team with a squad of 30-odd will regularly compete with the likes of France, Germany then nope. That’s never going to happen.
            Not unless we start getting a lot of African immigrants. That might actually happen in a few decades. But keeping that aside, I don’t foresee it.

    2. Ashis Nandy pointed out that cricket plays into both Brahminic and Kshatriya identity narratives. A test match batsman, with an emphasis on restraint and technique appeals to the Brahmin’s sense of sacrifice and discipline. An aggressive player’s sense of adventure and risk (sudden death) plays into Kshatriya ideals of valor and conquering fate.

      I think Kohli combines both facets. Harsha Bhogle mentioned that Kohli is like a monk when he himself is batting. He has near perfect technique and is ultra disciplined. When he is fielding and captaining he is more adventurous and perhaps even reckless.

      Personally, I like cricket more because it really gives insight into the player’s mind and thinking process.

      1. ‘it really gives insight into the player’s mind and thinking process.’

        The only unique value that cricket provides is to see the batsmen of a losing side endure and turn the tide in a test match. But I don’t think it is because cricket is special, it is because playing for 5 days is special, it does not get captured in shorter formats. If football/baseball/basketball/Tennis was somehow 5 days long it would have something similar. We already see this same test cricket like endurance challenges in motorsports. Other than this 5 day thing there is nothing special.

        Ashish Nandy is talking like classic Indian uncle in a barbershop. This is nonsense.

        IMO Cricket sucks but we don’t win at anything else. Something about it screams colonialism and British aristocracy. Maybe it’s the weird rules, weird gear, … it has breaks for tea 😂 This is not a game of commoners. If it was not for the advertisement opportunity at the end of every over it would not be so popular in India.

  19. Here is the passage from Nandy’s book, pretty interesting,

    “To the Brahminic, the posture of moral superiority and self control of the gentleman cricketer was bound to be attractive. The Kshatriyas and the Kshatriya-like (Jats, Yadavs etc) found him attractive for his defiance of fate, emphasis on style and sense of honour. Both appreciated the gentleman cricketer’s emphasis on rituals or forms over substance, …., which were associated not only with the Bania and some of the ‘low’ (Dalits, tribals, artisan castes etc) cultures in India but also the colonial masters.”

    Reminds me of Tendulkar vs Sehwag.

    1. Don’t you think this sort of Brahminical psycho-analysis is over done?

      I have a hard time taking any of it seriously anymore.

      1. ‘Don’t you think this sort of Brahminical psycho-analysis is over done?’

        What is there to think about it? Bamans masturbate too much. Rest of us should not have to see them do it all the time.

        ‘I have a hard time taking any of it seriously anymore.’
        There is nothing to take seriously. Banias run circles around Bamans daily without making us all endure this nonsense.

        1. “Bamans masturbate too much.”

          I thought the Nandy family was old school Bengali Christian. This is less masturbation and more navel-gazing.

      2. I think the passage by Nandy is a great example of how caste actually affects India and its culture, in contrast to the AASI/Steppe obsession a lot of diasporic folks seem to have.

        Brahmin, Kshatriya, Bania and Muslim are more psychologies than genealogies.

  20. African Sri Lankans, mainly the Sri Lanka Kaffirs, are a very small Ethnic group in Sri Lanka who are descendants of African mercenaries, musicians, and labourers taken to what is now Sri Lanka by Portuguese colonists during the period of Portuguese colonial rule on the island.[3] There are currently around 1,000 African Sri Lankans. They live in pockets of communities along the island’s coastal regions of Trincomalee, Batticaloa, and Negombo. The Portuguese colonists used them to fight the Ceylonese Kings.

    The main African Sri Lankans are known as Kaffirs. This term is not used as a racial pejorative as in other parts of the world. Some were originally Muslims, while others practiced African religions, but many have now converted to Catholicism and Buddhism. They speak a lyrical creole language with a mix of native Sinhalese and Tamil.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCWIRGYkOnw

    1. Manja Music of Sri Lanka
      Its the music of the Kaffirs (not a derogatory word in Sri Lanka). They were brought mainly by the Portuguese from Angola and Mozambique. The Tabbowa/Sirambiadi community in the west coast is a mix of African descendants and Sinhalese. Their music is now very much part of the Sri Lankan tradition. Below the group Ceylon African Manja performing in their village. This is youtube clip of the same group in a more formal setting.

      https://sbarrkum.blogspot.com/2018/04/bi-kidude-and-sri-lankan-baila-and.html

  21. guys,
    this is a rice eaters world cup,japanese have won against germany, and japan were certainly a better team in the second half.
    saudis have won against argentina , and i am sure they are also rice eaters!!!
    i agree with some comments above:
    i) most players except the south american ones are almost skinny.
    ii) almost all play the dreaded tiky taka passing and it looks so bad on north europeans. sice they are skinny, they cannot kick and run as they were doing earlier. tiky taka is good for southern europeans who train under sun and get tired easily.
    iii) with more money being poured, india will qualify.

  22. https://www.dawn.com/news/1722654/in-his-last-public-address-coas-bajwa-slams-anti-army-narrative-asks-political-stakeholders-to-move-forward

    ‘Gen Bajwa also discussed the army’s performance and actions in Bangladesh during the 1971 civil war, which said were topics that most people avoided.

    “I want to correct some facts here. Firstly, former East Pakistan was a political failure and not a military one,” he said.

    He said the number of soldiers fighting was not 92,000 but 34,000 and the others were in different government departs. He added that these 34,000 soldiers were confronted by an Indian army of 250,000 soldiers and 200,000 members of the Mukti Bahini.

    “Against these heavy odds, our army fought bravely and gave exemplary sacrifices which were acknowledged by Indian army chief field marshal Manekshaw.”’

  23. Japan beating Germany is great tbh love it love the underdog story

    partially because I’m a weeb😂

  24. I’ve gone from mildly amused to properly annoyed at the antics of the Europeans at the world cup. The latest controversy is how the Belgian foreign minister CONFRONTED the FIFA president with the “onelove” armband which is used to signal allegiance to globohomo. Seriously, just look at it:

    https://i.imgur.com/pdPg7Fc.png

    The Qatari World Cup is probably the best thing to have happened to football in a very long time. Seeing white liberal imperialists seething is simply invaluable.

  25. New converts to a religion are always the most enthusiastic, sometimes stupidly so.

    All these Euro countries legalized same sex marriage in the last 5-10 years now lecturing Qatar about LGBTQ.

    Good that Germany got a thrashing for their political posturing. Spain should end their misery on Sunday.

  26. ashish nandy/psychoanalyst/psychiatrist was a master of rhetoric, like dave chapelle, saying all things to all people, good and bad. Until he was taken down by ashitosh as news anchor. When he ran one statement on sc/s on corruption even if he said in a supporting context. sc/st act. That was his final act on politics, he wrote one article on modi after he became pm. An article of hope.

  27. @aryamsa is racist , casteist, despicable supremacist. And to all brahmins who might revel in momentary pride. This will put off everyone against you. And will become evidence against you.report him and kick him out of twitter.

  28. 26/11 anniversary brings back memories of diggi raja and Congress endorsing 26/11 as rss conspiracy long after kasab and isi involvement revealed.

    1. Pakistan ass fucked us on 26/11.

      I remember (later) watching clips of Pakistanis on TV (gandu tarziyanigars) doing their thing in the aftermath. Mumbai attacks changed me forever.

      I didn’t have internet or cable. DD News was giving out the muted government version. Next day (27 or 28) we got to know what had happened, the Newspaper headline read ‘War on Mumbai’.

      Americans have 9-11, Indians have 26-11.

    1. $3809 is still very poor. Moreover, given that Lok Sabha MPs are elected according to outdated demographic weights, those rich states have little to complain about.

      If Modi pulls the trigger and updates the weights then it means the Southern states get locked out of power forever. I wonder how that would change emigration patterns. Already in Israel, there’s talk of seculars leaving Israel since they feel that the religious right has simply outbred them and will dominate them electorally. I wonder if similar sentiments would arise in the South if BIMARU got its due in terms of parliamentary representation.

      1. The account that originally posted this is a Punjabi chauvinist one.

        Punjab’s GDP/capita has been stagnating for a long while and it’s squarely at India average now.

        UP on the other had started its industrialization journey under Yogi. I’d like to bet that UP will overtake Punjab in GDP/capita by 2035.

        I am not as sanguine about the future of Bihar since the state has a severe resource crunch and lacks leadership.

        The decline of Gutkapur can be traced back to the decline of Calcutta and to a lesser extend Kanpur due to the communists. These used to be major economic engines of the region.

        1. one can only hope this is a troll account

          “One of the reasons for the Aryan victory over mulnivasis was that the staple food of the natives of India was millet and rice and over cooked meat while the Aryans ate corn, wheat and milk.”

          Corn is mesoamerican.

          Wheat cultivation in India dates to 6500 BCE.

          And IVC had a lot of dairy production (based on pottery analysis from Gujarat IVC sites).

          Today tribal people (genetically IVC) in south india, are vegetarian and have a “holy milkman” priest traditionally, who is a brahmachari (celibate)

    2. Not cool man. If anyone posts a meme with **dark as coal** skinned Tamils in tatters, next to fair skinned Haryanavis in a baraat, @Ugra and other Madraasis especially the NRI ones will start whining. The level of unnecessary hate towards my Bihari people in something. I won’t cry racism here, but ‘gutkapur’ wtf BC? Madraasis are channeling their inner Bengali or what? Tum bade switzerland mein ho? Kolkata is objectively the worst large city in India, ghinapan aur badboo se aadha Chennai bhara hai, Bangalore’s traffic is perhaps the worst in the world. Why such mocking of the poor? What have they done to you or your state? Did they take the jobs you wanted? Did they take your women? Did they fuck with your culture? are they separatist?

      ‘I wonder how that would change emigration patterns.’

      Already the sole goal in life of ALL Andhra people is to emigrate to the US at any cost, by hook or crook. Many Tamils are like this too. They don’t need anyone pushing them.

      1. Why such mocking of the poor?
        Because despite all our intellectual posturing, humans are hierarchal&tribalistic animals. The bulk of hatred Indians get from the West is simply because we’re a poor foreign non-white nation. Same rule applies within India, we are a lot more tolerant of the poor if they’re “our” poor.

    3. Should HP+Punjab+UK be then called Ganjedipur?

      Should Punjab+Haryana be called Cabiya-nagar? or (Visa-)Fraudiya-nagar.

      Or Tamil Nadu be called Fair-and-Lovely-pur, or Periyar-premi-sangh. Chennai could be duba-nagar, or machlli-para?

  29. I have these Rajasthani friends who mock UP-Bihar too. Jaat culture is broken and they can’t digest that relatively darker skinned UC folks crush them at every conceivable competition. But even Sindhis do it, BC humne sharan di, humein se bakchodi! KPs are racist assholes too. Rassi jal gayi par ainth naa gayi, that too for (meat-eating) farji-bamans.

    And then this mocking easily goes from mocking of culture to mocking of individuals (like myself).

    I hate on certain qualities of people, I don’t like Bengalis who support communism, don’t vote left and be my friend. I hate Periyarite Tamils who mock Hinduism and vote DMK, cease doing this and be my friend. I hate separatists in Kashmir and shit on Khalistani cab drivers. Don’t do this and be my friend. But Madraasis don’t mock UP-Bihar in similar spirit.

    1. I remember my super caste-ist/regional-Chauvin-ist Rajasthani Soni (lower-middle-ish caste idk?) tiffin delivery guy. He used to spit in the same (knee-deep) flooded street that he would wade in to get me my tiffin, and then complain about hygiene of mess owned by non-Rajasthani/non-UC people.

        1. Gujjus are chill, that is why they get to rule India. Let us see how long people tolerate token Madraasis continuing to hog major cabinet minister seats (Sitharaman, Jaishankar, Chidambaram, Naidu,…) in the center.

    2. ‘But even Sindhis do it, BC humne sharan di, humein se bakchodi’

      I mean even Punjabis and Bengalis got a piece of their land by fighting. Sindhis just picked up their stuff and ran towards India.

      ‘KPs are racist assholes too. Rassi jal gayi par ainth naa gayi,’

      KPs think that they really matter in Hindutva worldview. Just like Bongs think WRT to UCC. Both are in for a rude shock.

      ‘Let us see how long people tolerate token Madraasis continuing to hog major cabinet minister seats’

      Folks know that they are token, so they dont mind that much, as long as the power rests with the North.

  30. UP / Bihar and more broadly the Hindi belt are the very core of India.

    It is really unfortunate that they are relatively poorer compared to the rest.

    I think this actually drives some of the separatist sentiment. As some people don’t want to be associated with Bihar and regard their sub-ethnicity as unique and superior to Indians (UP+Bihar) by comparison.

    If UP+ Bihar was the richest part of the country rather than the poorest, separatist sentiment would not be as much of an issue.

  31. Bangladesh’s GDP per capita has increased to 2824 USD from 2500 last year.
    https://english.news.cn/20221116/26bad2781eb8449fba046469410c5a7c/c.html#:~:text=DHAKA%2C%20Nov.,July%202020%2DJune%202021)%20.

    Looks like the motherland is making some great progress so that’s nice to see 🙂
    It’s also doing quite better than India and stuff in that and HDI rankings as well
    https://www.undp.org/bangladesh/blog/human-development-report-2021-22-takeaways-bangladesh#:~:text=With%20a%20current%20value%20of,the%20regional%20value%20of%200.632.
    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

    India also has way too much open defecation compared to BD where it’s nil.
    https://www.statista.com/chart/18419/progress-against-open-defecation/

    Ofc it’s still a developing country. Hopefully it develops even more, to greater heights.

    1. While Bangladesh’s per capita income is indeed higher than India, it still lags way behind in other consumption indices.
      Bangladesh has annual motor sales of 50000 per year, which is equal to the car sales in Lucknow, the 10th largest city in India. In per capita electricity consumption, Bangladesh is around 500 kWh , which India crossed 20 years ago.
      While commendable economic growth and other social indicators, it is a good example for some indian states to emulate but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

      1. Gajanadhgam whatever,

        Cite your sources. I cited mine. Bangladesh is far cleaner, safer and efficient than India. Maybe you should focus your energy on your high open defecation rate instead of making these comments, lol. Seriously high rates of open defecation there, ew.

        “Get ahead of ourselves”
        lmao what. Bangladesh has a higher life expectancy, lower crime rates and a higher quality of life than India even with the cons😂

        1. Glad BD is doing well.

          But the chauvinism to doing well ratio is too high in typical subcontinental fashion. So I will push back.

          “Bangladesh is far cleaner, safer and efficient than India. ”

          I wouldn’t say “far”, I would say “marginally”.

          I just checked they are pretty close margin of error range on nominal per capita GDP and hdi metrics.

          India has marginally higher purchasing power adjusted per capita GDP.

          India is a big diverse place, so regions BD will be a lot better, and other regions will be better than BD.

          Open defecation is something Indian Hindus and tribals need to sort out, but directionally improved a lot in the last 20 years so I am not too concerned.

          data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.ODFC.ZS?locations=IN

          1. @Sumit
            The only answer is beating BD comprehensively on GDP per capita. Nothing else matters. Their cricket team just can’t help doing unprovoked Naagin dance.

          2. Sumit the Lowborn,

            Purchasing power is a meme lmao how do you still not get that yet? Also, Indian Hindus are 85-86% of India and it’s not marginal, in fact, the data shows them to be major streetshitters while the level in Bangladesh according to the United Nations and USAID development studies is effectively ZERO. So no, it’s a major difference. The average Bangladeshi has a higher income, higher quality of life, a safer environment, cleaner areas and longer life expectancy than the average Indian.

            lmao it’s a major difference in terms of cleanliness though BD is obviously not developed and needs to do even better.

          3. Pencilman

            chill bruh. lmao. this is not a personal attack on your identity. just an attempt at a realistic discussion.

            In any event…

            PPP seeks to adjust for cost of living when measuring standard of living. Living on $100k in NYC is very different from earning $100k in Memphis. Similar things apply to countries.

            How is that a meme ? I would argue it is actually not possible to use per capita GDP as a measure of standard of living without these adjustments.

            But lets just use your metrics, of “way ahead” and “major”…

            On HDI
            India ranked 0.633 (rank 132)
            Bangladesh ranked 0.661 (rank 129).

            GDP per capital (Nominal) (IMF estimate – the chinese news article you lined is talking about per capita income)
            Bangladesh $2,734 (the chinese news article you quoted was about income per capita)
            India $2,466

            To put this in perspective…

            Nominal GDP differences within India (2020 figures so would be a bit higher now)
            Highest GDP per capita state in India ($6,227) – Goa
            Lowest GDP per capita state in India ($661) – Bihar

            HDI Differences within India
            Highest HDI state in India 0.782 (Kerala)
            Lowest HDI state in India 0.574 (Bihar)

            The open defecation I acknowledged is a problem in India at 15% (per world bank), but this is down from 74% in 2000. Bangladesh was at 15% in 2002 so not too long ago, just for comparison.

            I am trying shame Hindus (I am a Hindu) a bit by mentioning it is their problem not downplay the issue.

            All the best.

  32. Delhi, the capital shouldn’t be included in a fair comparison
    Also how is the TFR 3.2? Those states lie in 2-3 Range

    Anyways both regions are still very underdeveloped. One is slightly shittier. Have fun enjoying that

  33. @bhimrao, i want my people of up/ bihar to succeed. But how is that possible by electing morons/. lalu and nitish. nitish in last 10+yrs did not attract any industry or investment. I cant think of any south Indian chief minister surviving that long without much success given the low base it is starting from. And now they kicked out bjp as well. I hope, bjp runs a development model promised election. blames nitish for never giving bjp a turn or doing any development. cant do anything, perhaps should quit.

    1. Tbh, I thought that post by Urga was the usual exchange between him and saurav. But yeah that twitter account is biased against UP/BH. I would not surprised if that mindset has similar attitudes towards South Indians and MH/GJ.
      All ethnicities in IN excel in stroking their own ego at others expense. There is a difference though. Punjabis excel in extracting rent from the rest of India because of their supposedly martial status and border regions. NCR is artificially inflating the gdp of the punjabi region. Plus MSP. I can’t think of any city other than NCR generating any private sector jobs.
      My sympathy for Biharis is tempered by what [email protected] said + job protests a few months back. So much so that now modi is organizing job melas in central government. I hope Biharis don’t turn out to be wannabe Punjabi moochers.

      1. I did not like the image and ‘gutkapur’ thing Ugra posted. Madraasis cry hard when they get bullied about their eating habits or skin color. Here is another post from the same person with a similar image:

        https://twitter.com/Markaskwala/status/1596472161195421696?cxt=HHwWgMDT3Zu-56csAAAA

        I don’t care either ways. UP-Bihar is beyond my ability to fix.

        But on one hand we have Yogi Adityanath organizing Kashi Tamil Sangamam, people in my own family are venerating Madraasis like Sri Sri Ravishankar and Sadhguru while Madraasis are tag teaming with Punjabi bigots. This friendship must have been forged in the lines at the American Embassy. These same people (all Punjabis, UCs, Bengali Bhadralok, Madraasis) then become champions of community service, equality and humility in America. Two faced parasites.

        You will never see a Gujrati do this behavior.

        1. ‘But on one hand we have Yogi Adityanath organizing Kashi Tamil Sangamam,’

          Thats; because N-Indians think the whole of India as their own, and have a national outlook. Sometimes to a fault (in my view)

          Indians of other regions don’t share the same view/issue.

    1. [email protected]
      Yes to archiving the casteist shit and throwing it back at their face when they start spouting universal human rights + egalitarianism bs. But no to reporting and banning.
      Best revenge is to succeed in life and pass on those habits to lots of one’s own kids.
      Do you think chinghiz was bothered by his supposed low birth? Heck the Germans were literal barbarians while Rome and Greece were flourishing as civilized states. Look at the scorecard since 1500s

  34. I am talking of aryamsa calling others lowborn, including one of the contributers here, emissary. Being outright racist/iq etc, turning caste into race based on differential steppe contribution/genetics. He is calling for all ucs of certain ethnicities to unite, also rejecting people of south. Please follow the thread. This is not some west vs Indians etc. He is not spouting universal values etc.
    What are you guys doing when a member contributing here is being treated in such a poor way among others ?. Have some shame. Report!!!

    1. i have emissary’s back against anyone. i didn’t know the details of this until you brought it up.

      that being said, i don’t believe in “reporting.” indian accounts try to brigade me this way. why censor vileness? let it be exposed and attack it. this is probably a cultural difference. indians are quick to squelch speech and many have no hesitation in doing so. americans are different unless they’re sjws.

  35. Let me make this very clear, I will dunk on social genetics and all such things if this means one starts apeing and importing western style scientific racism. Infact it becomes more than necessary. ‘Facts’ absent wisdom is unacceptable. Those interested in ‘facts’ should be the first also to stand for that wisdom as well in a forthright manner. Without that responsibility, it is unacceptable.

    1. I will dunk on social genetics and all such things if this means one starts apeing and importing western style scientific racism

      I’ve been following “Hindu trad Twitter” on and off for some years and I can tell you that these people don’t need Western theories of race to be bigoted. Many of them already held strong views of certain castes/communities’ supposed inherent inferiority. They simply use these Western notions to re-inforce views that they already had.

      In other words, it’s just a way for them to legitimise their bigotry rather than their outlook being changed fundamentally in some way.

  36. Few points
    1) It is right by Indian law.
    2) Right by Twitter conduct rules.
    3) It is not just some disinterested analysis. But ties into and exhorting political views based on it.
    4) He is abusive. Even here, moderators believe in blocking people who cross a line. Twitter too has those policies in place to people who are abusive. To report people for being abusive is not sjw. It is common sense.
    5)Also, If one does not believe in reporting, they should absolutely call them out on it on twitter. I dont see people here doing that either. I do not exist on twitter, lurk around some of the handles here from time to time on issues.
    One cannot be politically neutral.
    To principia, no, wading into race/iq/social genetics etc was never a thing. Old traditional ideas were based on lineage. It can change the dynamics of the conversations and thereby politics in a much worse manner. That person’s political point of view taken to logical conclusion is horrible. This is not the same old bigotry. And I will not have this attempt to deny this change taking place . Nature and intensity of bigotry also changes with the kind of arguments people make. That is common sense. Many people did not see audrey types from the beginning. Now people understand “bad faith” actors. Bad faith actors exist in all sides. If people want to have meaningful conversations, these people have to be selected out.

  37. Effective lies and forgetfulness are the very heart of power. Americans skip over napalming Cambodia as if nothing happened…

    Indian emblem says ‘Truth alone triumps’ but Indian people’s commitment to the truth (maybe even thankfully) is very weak. You can never win a debate with an Indian or Asians in general. They will drag it on and on and on, keep making BS… and that is how we get people like Ayesha Jalal. Over time the new world is also converging to this behavior too. How many people have you ever met whose posteriors after a discussion on a topic they care about is different from their prior?

    Might IS right. We had American mainstream media whine so loudly about Russians paying the Taliban for attacking American soldiers, now when America does 1000X of the same in Ukraine we must think what gives?

    Trads are basically Baman and Thakurs (Brahmins and Kshatriyas for ABCDs) . Their real grievance is reservation in schools and jobs. I am certain that trads will immigrate to greener pastures in a couple of generations.

    There are counter-insults to them calling others ‘low-born’ just like there are effective counter-insults for say Bengalis, Madraasis, and Punjabis, and Pakistani Muslims. Maybe throw those at them every once in a while?

    ‘Bhay bin hoye na preet’

  38. Well, that post blew up!

    Contrary to what most posters on BP plug (including myself) about the North-South disparity or the West-South rivalry in India, there are major fissures developing within the Northern zone.

    Quite a lot of Rajasthani, Punjabi and Pahadi blackpillers are open in their bile for the Gangetic Heartland. In fact, South Indian revanchists are rather restrained in comparison.

    This is a direct outcome of how some 130-IQ Gangetic millennials behave.

    On BP itself you will see Gangetics shitpost about their region but subtly change the narrative to India. See the post at the start about pensions. The worst performing regions are a few and you know where. But @bhimrao will write “India haramkhor logon ka mulk hai….” Stuff gets noticed eventually.

    Splintering of unequal regions in the same cultural zone is the normative. The majority of Tamilians or Kannadigas are not clued into the average UP-wallah’s behaviour for linguistic reasons. Rajasthanis and Punjabis have a higher reception of Bihari shenanigans.

    The mandala theory applies within India. For example, Delhi and TN will collaborate. Or Karnataka and Himachal. But the neighbour is always a cultural competitor.

    This is why Telangana and AP fight. As do Karnataka and TN.

    All the Gangetic brethren (Bhimrao, Saurav) on BP – you better start waking up to reality. Your neighbour is going to be your worst detractor, not far off South India.

    1. TN’s GDP per capita is $ 3,048. You are talking as if you are Switzerland.

      ‘This is a direct outcome of how some 130-IQ Gangetic millennials behave.’

      No it is not. You posted caricaturizing images, don’t deflect now. Tamils and Telugus cry very loudly in India as well as the US when something like this is done to them.

      Only recently there was some Tamil uncle who was bullied by a Khalistani in a restaurant for his looks and his toe-nails. I know of Tamil people who have been harassed for eating with their hands.

      ‘Rajasthanis and Punjabis have a higher reception of Bihari shenanigans.’

      I am not a Bihari. But what are these shenanigans? care to explain? What did Biharis take from Punjabis and Madraasis or Rajastanis? They keep their head down, work hard, do things others don’t want to do. This is a sentiment I saw in Bhutan too. What is it that you consider ‘shenanigans’ ? Did they shit on the roads? Did they eve tease your women? What is it that you folks find irritating? Their very existence?

      Again remember these same people i.e., Telugus, Tamils and Punjabis demand they be treated differently after they scheme their way into places that are 20X richer than their homeland (compared to the 5X difference between Bihar and TN). But then consistency is not something to be expected.

      ‘Gangetics shitpost about their region but subtly change the narrative to India… Stuff gets noticed eventually.’

      I will not do this in the future. I have things to say here but I no longer consider you, a Dravidian, the right person to say them as a ‘Gangetic’. You of all people have convinced me that Saurav is right when he says, ‘Indians of other regions don’t share the same view/issue.’

      ‘you better start waking up to reality’
      Done.

    2. ‘The mandala theory applies within India. For example, Delhi and TN will collaborate.’

      This is one of your usual bullshit theories.

      UP-Bihar-MP get along fine, Gujrat-MP, Gujrat-Rajasthan, Orissa-everyone, … so many obvious counter examples but no we have to justify our hateful BS and sound like some ‘strategist’.

    3. ‘130-IQ Gangetic millennials’

      We had Mensa test in our school. 139 or 142 I don’t remember actually. Even taking into account that you went to IIT K, the odds that you are doing something better than me professionally are very low. I have clashed swords with umpteen Madraasis, won some, lost some, but was never routed.


      1. ‘130-IQ Gangetic millennials’
        We had Mensa test in our school. 139 or 142 …

        LoL. Most of you guys are within +1 sigma. ( < 115). the free online iq tests you take are farcical. they fraudulently overstate your scores to boost your ego and bring them business. at 140 level you wouldnt be frequenting these blogs; you would be doing something more prouductive.

        1. This does not seem true. The average IQ of a college grad in US at least is 115. at 105 IQ, you have a 50% chance of dropping out of college. BTW Most college grads are quite mediocre and don’t have deep intellectual curiosity that one typically associates with higher IQ people. But average person on the street is even worse.

          Also, many people at 140-150 IQ are smoking weed, and doing mushrooms and DMT rather than doing anything productive. Many of them are socially awkward which is why they don’t do well in life. Many high IQ individuals (for eg: university professors) are also high on their own supply, and don’t have a grasp on practical life. Bulk of the “productive” work is done by mediocre people with 90-110 IQ, 120-130 IQ people being in top management.

          As for Ugra’s IQ, I guess it’s either going to be 160+ or below 70. He sees patterns that mere mortals cannot comprehend.

        2. @Scorpion

          This could totally be true.

          I was disappointed in Ugra whom I had considered a friend and I was basically shouting.

          I am fine with a lower IQ. It is what it is 🤷🏾.

          @Qureshi

          “Also, many people at 140-150 IQ are smoking weed, and doing mushrooms and DMT rather than doing anything productive.”

          This might not be true. I never knew any true ganjedis in US universities. Most are chomus who wear mandala themed pyjama and do CBD or little bit of weed and mushroom. My college in India had proper ganjedis, who would congregate with a harmonium and dholak, disco lights, and pray to Neem Karori Baba’s picture. It had a whole naga-baba akhara feel. No one can beat Indians at ‘spiritual’ smoking. Indians don’t do DMT or cocaine level stuff. But I did know few in college who were into hard drugs.

          ‘Many of them are socially awkward which is why they don’t do well in life.’

          Again I am not sure. The brightest in my cohort went straight to Google and never moved. Other very smart ones went to finance places like Goldman Sachs, Softbank, Deutsche, …, I don’t know any bright ones who did badly in life. This socially awkward high IQ gamer thing is a oxymoron, mostly losers thinking they are high IQ.

          I know weirdo balding fat pimply people from my work place who are Lord Vishwakarma or Allah incarnate tier coders contributing to amazing open source stuff in the time I waste here, are great at things like astrophotography, comicbook illustration, wildlife photography, mountain biking,… can and do make Lidar in their garage, all in one person. Americans are pound for pound just more well rounded and talented no doubt about that. But no awkward high IQ person I know is a loser.

          ‘Many high IQ individuals (for eg: university professors) are also high on their own supply, and don’t have a grasp on practical life.’

          This is complete BS. Many of my grad school peers are professors. I didn’t go that route because (a) making it to a top place would have taken 7-10 more years for me, and (b) I tried industry R&D (engineering) and found it much better (can elaborate each point if anyone cares).

          Pulling something exceptional in a PhD is very very rare unless you get lucky with the choice of advisor. There are three routes to R1 professorship at a place that is ranked ~20-50, if you graduate from say a top 10 program: (a)Already have a big shot advisor who will basically get you the job, this is the most common route,(b) 2-3 years of further postdoc at a top-3 place or with a big shot professor with a history of placing his mentees well, (c) slog 4-5 years at a lower ranked place and switch, all the while sucking balls of NSF/ARL/AFRL/NOAA/… and maybe win something like the NSF early career award.

          Getting into a somewhat lower ranked place if you come from a very good program and have publications to show is not that hard.

          —-

          Professors are good, just not that good. A principal engineer at Amazon would run circles around them.

          I believe you are from Canada. No one in my peer group wants to come teach in Canada unless you are talking about U Toronto or BC, and just maybe McGill, Waterloo or Alberta. unless they have some family constraints forcing them to move to Canada. The weather sucks, the pay sucks, the whole country just sucks, there is just more prestige in America.

        3. @Scorpion
          I could be wrong but I don’t think genius tier starts at 140. I have always done well at standardized tests, got through NTSE, did well at JEE, was a top quartile, maybe second decile tier student at a good program in IIT, ‘athee’ or 8-pointer, 335 or 338 on GRE, top 10 department for gradshool, maybe top 3-5 within my sub discipline. R1 Tenure-track is not that far for me if I choose to. But I do not think except 2-3 any of my peers or my professors are ‘genius’ or will do something really exceptional in their lives. Many will amass titles and aura but ‘true contribution’ and ‘genius’? highly unlikely.

          1. in my personal experience, i didn’t find 8-pointers or 9-pointers any outstanding genius in iit. surely more maggu, more disciplined, more conformist, but definitely lacking that “spark”. in contrast, many of the guys who took up to 7 years to finish a btech were able to strike gold in their career once they found their lost mojo. but individual experiences vary.

      1. @Bhumiputra

        Yes, that is well documented.

        Pathans, Sikhs and Madras regiments were used to suppress the 1857 mutiny in the Gangetic provinces. These regiments did not suffer a single case of mutiny!

        It was not a simple case of mercenary motivation – many of these, especially the Sikhs, did not want the Mughals back. The Gangetics were simping for the return of the Mughals.

        Many of these faultlines are now with us as well. The clearest manifestation from less than 3 decades ago was the Muslim-Yadav/OBC combine in UP firing on Karsevaks.

        Same simps, different era!


        1. “many of these, especially the Sikhs, did not want the Mughals back.”

          this is spot on. the british officers commanding the sikhs goaded them on to capture rebel-held delhi by saying that “raj karega khalsa” prophesy is about to come true and a sikh regime will soon be installed in delhi. this is well documented.

      2. “Punjabi-gangetic kerfuffle is going on since 1840s.”

        yup, and blame the britishers for this. used hindustani troops to subjugate the sikhs, and then the played the same game in reverse order. though i will be interested in knowing if this history goes further back.

        1. In my limited reading of Sikh history on wiki, they seem to have fought frequently against hill rajas and local Hindu accomplices of Mughals. Plus Nanak seems to have lost faith/trust in Hindu deities for the simple fact that much of Punjab was repeatedly ravaged by Turkic invaders. Plus the usual Jatt (OBC) angst against UCs for not granting them kshatriya status.

    4. i have met plenty of S indians in my college and working life. i have found them OK guys without exception. just like any of us. but then, i do understand that i have always met them *outside* of their home states. in their own turf they are probably as parochial and domineering as any of us. this is normal human behavior. i wouldnt give much thought to it.

  39. The South Asian cline proper ends at UP Brahmins in terms of encompassing close to 99% of the subcontinent within that portion of the cline. There is an abrupt break and then we see the Central Asian migrants/NW Biradris cluster together to the exclusion of the rest of South Asia. This bears out even when examining phenotype and admixture.

    Jaats/Rors (the same autosomally) as well as Arains, Kambojas, Jatts and Khatris are good examples of this. The following admixture scores of Jaats show that they are barely 10-12% AASI in total, with only outliers around 14-15% AASI. The average AASI level is closer to 10-12%. (AASI is 25% of IVC). On top of this, they range 40-48% Steppe and 15-20% BMAC. This means they are about as South Asian as Parsis are in terms of IVC admixture and less South Asian than Parsis are overall in terms of total AASI admixture. Pashtuns are the same, sharing similar AASI levels and clustering as West shifted as well.

    https://ibb.co/Gcv3sp3
    https://ibb.co/rfM7k6q
    https://ibb.co/Dz1jjzB
    https://ibb.co/DMm02Vf
    https://ibb.co/5MXLcJ1
    https://ibb.co/7vVh0dH
    https://ibb.co/mSR1mz1
    https://ibb.co/2FCY4yF

    Jaats and other NW Biradris are excellent examples of relic populations, fossils from the Bronze Age and later ages when relatively recent migrations of tribes changed the genetic landscape of NW South Asia. Endogamy only served to preserve this unique makeup. Once ANE related West Eurasian admixture is incorporated into the above the total East Eurasian admix of these biradri will be very low indeed.

    1. All this doesnt really matter. Khatris dont marry Jatts, Arains etc, but they do marry other upper castes from all over India.

  40. Too much intrasubcontinental fighting in this thread. Genuinely disappointing. Instead of everyone having an attitude of “we all gonna make it,” it’s a lot of comparisons of marginally different conditions.

  41. I find total lack of ethics. The lack of belief in ethics existing in other people is the problem here. Have good faith too that other people exist bhimrao. I will give you what you want.

    Yes, calling people of bihar/up people in bad/nasty words is horrible. I thought it was obvious and didnt need saying. Now be kind and say that calling people lowborn is horrible. In this case, the person was saying it to emissary, he is a us citizen. where is the competition with him on reservations?.

    What is wrong needs to be fought with unity , shraddha. We fail when we imagine the worst in others. Yes, there needs to be a movement.

    As to ugra, what will stop you from being an ass?. Yes, gujarat people are the best. Also shows, they are the most mercantalist of all. Which brings the question,
    ethics= mercantalism a deep moral truth?.

    A lot of trad behavior is due to reservations but not all. There are people like suren zeneralstuff or whatever talking of how “others should not read vedas as it would be defective. much like you cant read with your ears like eyes etc.”

    We need to stand together. The problem with India is that fighting stereotypes is a difficult thing. Because in the west, people inter marry. So, stereotypes have a timespan, except the jews who are endogamous. Here in India, many engage in endogamy. That means, stereotypes are a serious thing with a longer timespan.

    I have good experience with people from UP/jharkhand (it was only recently divided from bihar), they have been my college roommates. They are all doing very well with software jobs happily settled in south. However, they themselves had a very dim view on their prospects in UP.

    Even when they fought with each other, they would tell me and other South Indians, when i/we are a bit compassionate towards the one oustracized.Or try to stay in contact with both sides that “you are south Indians, you are soft, dont know how to handle those types, etc.” This reminds me of another person in andhra, whom people figured out as a converted xtian. He was in the thick of people and then was all alone sitting out. Once I ventured, sat close to him and asked how he was. He replied “thank you”.

    I used to be a better person, i no longer am though. It has to do with Gandhi, sri ramanujan being from a vaishnava background and how much i was influenced by gandhi as a 17 yr old , reading his autobiography, trying after few years to take a course by michael nagler etc. didnt finish the course, only fee classes. I have many profound disagreements with Gandhi, but he will always be a companion. India as a united country is a bit unnatural , no common culture holding it together, no value for mercantalism entirely either. no inter caste marriages. Not even the basic ethics of not calling each other by nasty names. As to punjabi jatt etc types, who think they are oh so better because they are braver , genetics, bodies etc. If south would have neighbored them, they would be chewed out and thrown out. They take pride in not using brains. Unfortunately, it is UP/Bihar. And they get ill treated there. What we in south want northies settling here is to learn our languages and integrate. I was sitting in a bus in bangalore, 2 people were speaking in hindi, a boy/girl. A man suddenly burst out and said, speak local language.

    I remember, my cousin, software and successful. He told me along with another south friend that when we southies go elsewhere, we learn their lanugages, atleast try to learn some basic words for communication and putting others at ease. These are simple basic things people should learn , just put others at ease and put some simple words of praise?. By comparison, another lunatic up fellow also unfortunately a room mate was totally unhinged. He went after a tamilian in front of us in hindi, the tamil guy went and recounted it to another friend and i was there to confirm. After the tamil guy went away. I tried to shut the door and give him a lesson. didnt invite him to my relatives marriage and the other northie friends reassured me that i did the right thing by not inviting when i felt a bit sorry. Apparantly he changed the most, but i cant get myself to believe.

    The world is a hardplace, it is not pride that matters, it is trying to put others at ease while also demanding some serious soulsearching and answers and when one fails at that, enforcing accountability. So, yes. I do most certainly call out the bs put out against north Indian bhaiyyas, but do not think it is only the people of other regions who can put two and two together and hence they are wrong, yes, the supremacism bit is certainly wrong and it needs to be called out.
    But as I put it earlier. ethics=mercatalism is a deep truth in all of human history. By that metric, Gujarat is the most mercantile and also the birthplace of Gandhi and UP/Bihar are the worst places in terms of being mercantile. Again, why is nitish still the cm after not achieving anything worthwhile?. The answer is that while everywhere caste is an issue, they make sure to elect in someone who increases the size of the pie. In up and bihar, they instead choose people who are good at holding lathi instead. I am hoping that with enough outside connections now due to migration from UP/Bihar, they will bring back a change in culture in the other direction. I certainly want UP/Bihar to succeed for it is the best for all of us. Now, i ask you to report the person abusing emissary. No place for abuse, no difficult or meaningul conversations can be had while such people exist.
    Hence I keep calling for IC marriages, I am not stupid.

  42. https://scroll.in/article/1038558/lessons-from-chhattigarhs-new-english-medium-school-programme

    Interesting read. India’s education policy on English is a bit schizophrenic. The new NEP is trying to move away from it, but local initiatives keep popping up. From what I’ve read, there is tremendous local demand. Poorer people know that being fluent in English is often a key route to well-paying jobs.

    In the article, one key paragraph stood out:

    “Elites keep saying that it is advantageous to learn in vernacular languages, while at the same time sending their children to English-medium schools,” she said. “This argument is used to keep the social hierarchy intact.”

    1. this is really a retrograde step. this is essentially a final surrender to the almighty english language. the battle is over.

    2. Meanwhile, English language apartheid continues stunting development of India including in football prowess.
      https://youtu.be/I-x8fKtuqxw
      Apparently despite plenty money going around, one needs to be English literate to get coaching certificate per AIFF rules. No wonder football culture died in West Bengal, a place that could have propelled India to world stage just by itself.

  43. SL went thru this in the 50’s and 60’s. Many elite proponents of swabhasha (Sinhala and Tamil) sent their children to English medium schools.

    Now everyone recognizes English is necessary and is supposed to be taught starting around grade 3 or so in universal free Edu govt schools. But reality is an issue. In rural areas there are no English teachers let alone competent ones. English teachers prefer to be in large urban towns where they can supplement their income by providing after school tuition.

    That said to be able to function in SL it is absolutely imperative to read and write Sinhala. Deeds, govt letters etc are almost always in Sinhala (and Tamil to a less extent).

    My father and some of his relatives saw the writing on the wall. They got their children educated in Sinhala, even though they were from a long line of Tamil scholars. To me this has been a huge advantage. Even after 25years in US, have re learnt my Sinhala skills and am able to write letters and project reports in Sinhala as required by various govt projects.

    1. I think SL differs from India in the sense that the biggest language (Sinhala) dominates much more. What’s the amount of fluent Hindi speakers in India? 45%? English may be the language of the elite, but it’s also a unifying language in a sense. Just ask the Southern states how excited they’d be having their kids learning Hindi in their schools.

      Besides, I keep returning to local demand. Another passage out of the story:

      Andhra Pradesh has seen a particularly heated battle over the question of the medium of instruction, after the government issued an order in 2019 that English would be used between classes one and six in all government schools. Opposition leaders in the state argued that it was important for students to study in their mother tongue – in response, Chief Minister Jagan Mohan Reddy demanded to know the medium in which their children and grandchildren studied.

      Two leaders of Bharatiya Janata Party challenged the order in the state’s high court, which struck it down in April 2020. The state government challenged this decision in the Supreme Court, where the case is underway. In the aftermath of the high court judgement, the state government also conducted a survey in 2020, to determine the preferences of parents of children studying in government schools: out of 17,85,669 parents, 96.7% said that they would prefer to send their children to an English-medium school over a Telugu-medium one.

      When that’s your voterbase, it’d be political suicide to ignore their sentiments.

      Personally, I agree with the vernacular-first approach, but would elevate English to a top 3 subject already from class 1, and massively boost funding to match the ambition.

      Yet education in India is famously mostly a state subject. Attempting a unified approach is a fool’s errand. NEP or not.

  44. I am always fascinated by this video.
    I downloaded it a few years back and could not share because could not find original link. So uploaded the video.

    Anyways, some points
    a) Black (very very dark to be PC) are considered to be powerful for good and bad in SL. Even in Europe, if you read some older novels .

    b) This is probably a guy (no eunuchs in SL as far as I know). Probably from the Indian Estate Tamil community as in the hill country.

    c) The short light skinned chaps are controlling the dark tall (powerful) dancer. Is it a watchama callit for what happened with Steppe and AASI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YskE–ZvWaM

    1. I am not Tamil or Sinhalese but I am pretty sure the person you are seeing as very dark skinned is actually dressed up as Goddess Kali and as such has black paint on his face and body. These are generally possession rituals of Sanatana Dharma, found throughout subcontinent. You can find it in raw form like this but also if someone is acting say as Lord Ram in a movie or village theater then also they undergo or used to at least with certain degree of piety that is involving the deity within.

      I also believe women used to be free to act/dress up as Goddesses in these public enactments till maybe last millennium with creeping generic sexual repression, whatever label it may have come under whether within Hinduism or Islamic or Christian influences. So now you’re left with only men that have this freedom to act as both Gods as well as Goddesses publicly.

      I can share a similar ritual from Bengal called Gajon puja:
      https://youtu.be/nyIxfHkyTDw

      Finally I don’t think it is correct of you to say light skinned short guy controlling the dark skinned tall dancer. The tall person who may or may not be actually darker skinned (who knows since he has body paint) is actually possessed and in such scenarios you need non possessed people to keep handle on the situation. As you can see from the Bengal video I posted, the possession rituals involve sharp weapon movement as well and you definitely need people to keep tabs or blood will spill. Also in Bengal video there’s people with white body paint for Shiva, blue for other deities etc.

      If you do not keep reverence towards such matters that is fine but try to not trivialize deep Hindu traditions to steppe/aasi racial bs.

  45. @pheycho1

    “Now be kind and say that calling people lowborn is horrible.”

    I unconditionally agree.

    ‘A lot … eyes etc.”

    Why ask for permission? Let them say whatever.

    ‘when i/we are a bit compassionate towards the one oustracized… “thank you”.’

    Bhai, here is the thing : I have never in my life looked up to Tamils or Telugus or Bengalis and thought to myself, ‘you know what? In so and so thing, I want to be like them’ I have thought like this about Marwaris, Amreekis, Japanese, … The only cultural quality I admire about Telugu people is their humility. While I appreciate it, I do not need this sympathy, I genuinely don’t give a shit about any individual (Ugra in this case). We all know how ethno-centric hiring by companies formed by Madraasis like freshdesk or myriad Indian IT companies are, the jobs NI software engineers do in Madraasis cities for Amazon, Google, Samsung, AMD, … and such were NOT MADE BY MADRAASIS OR MEANT EXCLUSIVELY FOR THEM. If North India was a different country many of the same operations will be set up in Noida. This is the pattern of engineering talent in India, I don’t see anything to admire about TN here : https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/311017/of-8-lakh-tamil-nadu-state-board-students-only-20-enter-iits.html
    the figures are skewed for Rajasthan and Andhra due to massive coaching.

    1. ‘What we in south want northies settling here is to learn our languages and integrate.’

      When in Rome be Roman. I have said it will happen in due course. I have family and friends married into Tamil-Andhra-Kannada families. It happens naturally for them. For some the jumps between Pune-Hyderabad-Chennai-Bangalore-Noida are so frequent that it is pointless to put in the effort. Except Chennai every other place is pretty chill.

      ‘I was sitting …,speak local language.’
      Must have been some Tamil uncle who jerks off to Punjaaban actresses.

      ‘I remember, my cousin, …myself to believe.’

      There are always these one off stories. Bihari Bhumihar guy in NIT Trichy. He hated the in-group prem of Tamils, said the lab assistants and professors would start talking in Tamil, outright favor native students. In Kgp I saw a bearable Bengali versions of this.

      I have always said I am super pro IC marriages.

    2. slight correction: I have looked up to Bengali willingness to do art, music and dance. And maybe religious piety among TamBrams.

  46. @Bhimrao

    I understand what you are saying but you are mentioning familiarity bias. A lot of things you are attributing to IQ when they should be attributed to discipline and desire (which actually are more instrumental in one’s success than IQ). A person can do 10 things better and faster than another person at the same IQ level, if only the discipline to use one’s time and the desire to do that thing is there.
    I work in a field where I have access to personal & financial information of thousands of people (current and historical dating back to the 90s), from different occupational backgrounds, such as doctors/lawyers, media artists, producers, directors and writers, university professors, real estate agents, engineers etc I regularly meet with over 1000 of these people. Some observations after being in this and field for 15 years and analyzing:

    1) Some of the richest people I know (net worth $10 million+, almost all are self made business owners) seem to have quite mediocre intelligence level, and one can easily tell when dealing with them as they have problems with quickly processing information. Many are not intellectually curious either. They are just very driven (discipline & desire) which has led to their success. I have met 100 + and I cannot really say anyone really stood out to me as someone with really high IQ.

    2) University professors seem high IQ, most of them are intellectually sophisticated and they are the easiest to deal with because they understand complicated problems when explained to them and even when they don’t, they usually defer their trust to expertise. They earn good, top 5% for sure, good enough for an upper middle class lifestyle but not what I call rich. Very likely university professors are married to other university professors. It’s quite common.

    3) Doctors/Lawyers/Prof.Accountants are clearly high IQ 120-150, but in my experience are only good at what they do.. They are good professionals, but working in a field that consumes time, and they spend all their time on their professional pursuits. There are always exceptions, but this my general experience. Doctors and Lawyers are notoriously bad with money and are very high spenders. Accountants are slightly better (perhaps because of the profession)

    4) Media industry is the most interesting to me. Canada gives out a lot of government benefits and grants to the Film and TV industry so historically entertainment industry is big here, probably second largest after California. It has some of the most intelligent/creative people but also some of the dumbest.
    Directors: mostly rich because they are quite creative and intelligent. Most directors I know are sophisticated, have good pattern recognition and cognitive ability.
    Actors and musicians: This is where the theory of high IQ = success is severely challenged. I’ve met some of the most successful actors and musicians, who in my opinion are just dumb as rocks. It’s absolutely infuriating dealing with them because they cannot comprehend simple instructions. When you see their finances, year by year, over 20 years, it doesnt add up.

    Conversely, the most logical and most reasonable people can also be perpetually struggling artists. The nature of the industry is such that creativity is rewarded, even if its stupid. Reason and logic be damned.

    On a personal level, I got two best friends who I have closely known for two decades have roughly the same level of IQ (we used to do IQ test). They both high IQ (140-150). One finished university in 2.5 years, with high distinction, got two professional designations within the next two years, worked at P&G, now at Google. I worked with him at PWC as well. The other, dropped out of uni, and haven’t done jack shit in the last decade.. wasted away 20’s in womanizing, partying, using drugs.. the partying, and womanizing is over but drugs still there. He still has excellent memory, cognitive ability, intellectual curiosity, and problem solving, he can hold a conversation and demonstrate more than a surface level knowledge on any topic, but has no discipline or desire in life. My brother (he is also quite high IQ) was getting a CGPA of 3.9 GPA at UofT (computer science) program but abandoned it in the 3rd year because of social maladjustment. He literally coded a FPS computer game from scratch (he was showing it to me last month) with quite detailed complexity.. he uses his work to get job offers, but never really wants to hold a job.. would rather spent time playing games or watching games or just relaxing binging on food. My friend’s brother who I hung out with often, also high IQ (141 when we tested together) got 3.8 CGPA, UofT graduated with high distinction, worked in IB for a while but didnt wanna put extra hours in and is now just working locally for some company, doubt pay is good, has 4 kids and seemed generally satisfied in a mediocre career. I know philosophy majors who I would consider highly intelligent (and its even apparent) but struggling financially and socially even after a decade of graduation. So yeah there may be a link between IQ and earning potential because the modern economy is knowledge based, but it’s not as straightforward. Some of the most fundamentally important work is not financially rewarding (for eg, farming and construction), so the definition of what is actually productive and what isn’t is a bit skewed.

    1. Most physicians, lawyers and accountants are not high IQ, they only appear as such due to cultural and personal bias, and in fact are no different than individuals who you deem as being persistent and disciplined – although there is nothing wrong with that.

      With regards to physicians, I have personally seen my classmates struggle with higher, creative cognitive thinking that doesn’t require typical fact regurgitation. For the medical entrance exam that all British students are required to give, you will see that the abstract section – pattern recognition, is by far the lowest score across admitted medical students. Out of curiosity, in M2, my classmates and I gave the physics/math/engineering students the abstract portion of the admissions test to see how they would fare – and their average put ours to shame. It’s safe to say, those are the fields to which higher IQ individuals tend to flock to in academia – although I must add a friend majoring in English Lit and Classics fared quite well, but too small of a sample size to make any conclusions. Although this is not to say that there aren’t any high IQ individuals in Medicine, as I definitely recognize higher cognitive abilities among residents of surgical training, yet they are statistically a minority among a medical school cohort – and the distribution is therefore more akin to what you would see in any academic discipline. This is likewise for lawyers and accountants too, with the ones in Biglaw and the Big 4 respectively of a higher IQ than their mean counterparts.

      I do agree though that media professionals/creatives, primarily those behind production, are extremely capable of abstract thinking and function on a higher cognitive level.

    2. Qureishi
      A lot of things you are attributing to IQ when they should be attributed to discipline and desire (which actually are more instrumental in one’s success than IQ). A person can do 10 things better and faster than another person at the same IQ level, if only the discipline to use one’s time and the desire to do that thing is there.

      Exactly
      I would say issues for high IQ to be successful, financially or academically are the following.
      a) A field where their intellectual curiosity is continuously stimulated.
      b) Discipline and consistency
      c) Ability to work under authority. So even if a) and b) are there, rebelling against authority can lead to being kicked out of career. Most often high IQ see things differently (right or wrong) from a mediocre though competent management. So possible clashes and loss of career

    3. @Scorpion
      I know many of the kind you are talking about. I knew one who dropped and went to TVF or some other OTT, another who did a lot of green activism,another who became full time painter, one started a school, but these were exceptions not the norm.

      @Qureshi

      Your job sounds like something at Discover or Klarna. Agree with most of your points. Some random thoughts:

      The roadblock in becoming really rich with a lot of my peers is sucking up their pride, giving up their decent paycheck and starting something substantially smaller in size on their own. Most hard-tech work is done at scale impossible for individuals or small teams. Most ‘hard-tech’ projects are BS too. People over promise and under deliver because they try to fight against something that is impossible. Just the other day I was seeing some Indian PhD guy from Nvidia, appearing all smart and stylish, lying how they will use ML models to create a twin of earth’s weather cycle or something and give hyper local weather prediction weeks ahead. Anyone with even a single brain cell can see how ridiculous it is to wrestle with fokker-plank equation at such high dimensions. ML this, ML that… blah blah blah…

      You will be disappointed to see how much of this BS is out there especially in academia.

      While people who do something real compete away their gains. At one point I interviewed with ARGO AI, they were a promising autonomy company. Recently shut doors, so many talented people had to move. Nuro is dying, so many people have lost jobs from LIDAR companies shutting down or downsizing like Velodyne, Cepton, Quanergy, … Velodyne used to be the fucking king and now they are shutting down.

      Making Hard-tech work is hard and doesn’t really pay all that well. Boston Dynamics was sold for a mere 1 Billion, Twitter sold for 45 billion!

    4. @Qureshi
      On your brother:

      I knew some guys from college, this was 10+ years ago, they were in Agriculture engineering or Mining and never studied, played DOTA and CS all day every-day, interspersed with Anime-Manga and were ghanghor-ganjedis. They went on to start some small game studio in Bangalore that became very big. Used to make some card games, ludo, type android games. Look these companies up, there are a few in Bangalore. A couple of years ago Europeans started buying them out. Many such companies in Bangalore got sold for USD 50-150 million. And these ex-Ganjedis are easily one of the top 10 monetarily successful people I know. All from making simple android games. I have a older Animator acquaintance who used to work for some American game studio rendering stuff with all sorts of fancy graphic engines etc. never made any real money.

      Competing with big studios is impossible, ask him to suck his pride and go small.

  47. Japan defeats Spain to take top spot in Group E, Germany eliminated. The arrogant virtue signaling Germans are out of the World Cup. This might teach them to respect Asian values.

  48. Too much kerfuffle on Ugra’s post.

    Its alright. Folks who hold no real power come on the internet and mythicize their ‘imagined power’ and importance . On ground, everyone knows which group wields power and authority ( within India and within Hinduism) as well.

  49. Japan beat Spain as well lmao them losing to Costa Rica really was an anime protagonist moment hahaha nah fr tho good for them, it was a fun match. Some copers on social media who clearly didnt watch the match tried to say that it was intentional and that Spain wanted to lose but anybody who saw how hard they tried to score in game would realize how bs of a statement that is hahah spain tried and failed.

  50. recent incidents in Bihar.
    Ppl stealing fuel from running trains.
    https://twitter.com/teasri/status/1599104702204981248
    https://twitter.com/AntrikshKS/status/1599000712125771776 .

    Worse the 2nd tweet is condoning the theft 🙁

    iron bridge, train engine and mobile tower, 2km road plowed over.
    https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/trending/viral-video-after-iron-bridge-train-engine-and-mobile-tower-miscreants-now-steal-2-km-road-in-bihar-see-how-456689

    This seems to be niku’s compromise. Let RJD goons steal public property instead of kidnapping ppl.
    Unfortunately Bihar seems to be turning in to a bottomless pit/festering sore. take your pick.

  51. More looting in BH.
    https://twitter.com/teasri/status/1599104702204981248
    Same incident but some condoning going on.
    https://twitter.com/AntrikshKS/status/1599000712125771776.

    Earlier looting of iron bridge, train engine, mobile tower and plowing of 2km road.
    https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/trending/viral-video-after-iron-bridge-train-engine-and-mobile-tower-miscreants-now-steal-2-km-road-in-bihar-see-how-456689.

    seems like niku-rjd compromise. loot public property but no kidnapping. BH seems like a bottomless pit/festering sore.

    1. Fwiw saw a report on twtr that there is a Rohingya colony in patna where fuel from trains is pilfered.


    1. Central agencies including Indian Computer Emergency Response Team, Delhi Cybercrime Special Cell, Indian Cybercrime Coordination Centre, Intelligence Bureau, Central Bureau of Investigation, National Forensic Sciences University, National Critical Information Infrastructure Protection Centre, and National Investigation Agency, are investigating the incident

      LoL. the babus infesting these agencies can’t tell their asses from their elbows, and you think they will be able to investigate this. good luck with that.

  52. After reading the recent Twitter leaks by Matt taibi, my respect Ro Khanna has gone way up.

    Only politician in the leaks who seems concerned about 1st amendment, a democrat no less.

    1. +1 to Ro on that.
      But the cynic in me thinks this is typical CYA and/or playing devils advocate. Very typical in large orgs/systems when taking risky decisions. Having said that, he being the only one doing so means he is leagues above the other folks involved.

  53. An Australian and a Briton have an op-ed in Al Jazeera entitled “How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years”

    https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians

    based on the paper, “Capitalism and extreme poverty: A global analysis of real wages, human height, and mortality since the long 16th century”

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X22002169

    whose avowed goal is to debunk the claim that capitalism allowed humanity to escape from poverty. Instead their theme is that capitalism *created* extreme poverty, and “significant improvements in human welfare” only began with “the rise of anti-colonial and socialist political movements”.

    I suspect the paper is methodologically dubious in the extreme, but haven’t had time to analyse it. However, India is discussed in Appendix V. They calculate excess mortality under British rule, by assuming that the natural Indian death rate was the same as that in Britain in the 16th and 17th centuries, which seems a very arbitrary assumption.

    1. By 1750s most of India was effectively under native control viz. Marathas, Sikhs etc. if there was no British eic, it a valid starting baseline for excess mortality India would be the same ballpark as pre industrial Britain in 16th century. Is your apprehension based that tropical countries like India had higher excess mortality? If so why?

      1. It’s just based on a general belief that the world varies a lot, so you can’t casually assume that two different times and places should be the same. It’s also based on a suspicion that these guys, who are some kind of neo-Marxists, are actively seeking an overall death toll for capitalism that is at least as bad as the maximum death toll you find asserted in various anti-communist “black books”. That is the overt message in the subtitle of their op-ed.

        I am not a demographer but it looks like the bulk of their alleged excess mortality would have to come from child mortality? And I believe that by modern standards, child mortality was enormous everywhere in the world until modern times. I have a reference here

        http://amechanicalart.blogspot.com/2013/09/infant-mortality-then-and-now.html

        saying that “In the 16th and 17th centuries [in England], 60 out of 100 children died before they reached adulthood.” And it seems very easy for a slight change in conditions to make that 50 or 70 out of 100, with a consequently large effect on life expectancy.

  54. Apple considering moving a good chunk of iPhone manufacturing to India.

    There is a one time opportunity for India here with us / China decoupling.

    Vietnam is getting the bulk of the gains but India can get a good chunk as well if plays things smart.

  55. sanjukta the lady by asking normal liberal questions outloud is destroying the notion of even the semblance of intelligence or common sense as to leli commentators possess.

    They dont!

    so, all these yrs, leli buffoons, did not even do the simplest of tests on whether muslim colleagues or ex muslim colleagues are really secular or not. test them in secret among yourselves. test them to say some things in public periodically,. That is how you shall find out whether they agree with these principles or not.

  56. This is doing rounds on Madraasis twitter:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/antifasicm4ever/status/1595830645166522368

    “Dear @ptrmadurai
    It is a serious Alert about north indian migration to TN.
    Pls take proper survey,data collection about their work, location, how long they are staying here to avoid unnecessary issues raised in future against homeland people.
    Today chennai central scenario.”

    pheycho1 wants us to believe that this will go away if only NIs learn Madraasi tongues, while ugra and others want to repost Khalistanis. Lovely!

    Saurav is right. NIs stupidly believe the whole country is theirs and end up in shit shows like IPKF in SL, or getting into Kashmir while folks like KPs conveniently legislate 35A aka ‘Kashmir for Kashmiris’.

    1. https://twitter.com/kaeshour/status/1599748337934426113?cxt=HHwWgoDTyeaoubMsAAAA
      Kaeshour (the KP amateur-linguist, CS guy from BP):
      “Controversial take: I’m not against independence of Kmr from the Indian state. I’ve a lot of time for serious seekers of political independence: not Islamist utopia-seekers, violent arseholes or ethnic cleansing deniers. Process of achieving a goal is more important than the goal”

      KPs opine too much. (North) India won’t let Kashmir go anywhere. KPs, KMs and Pakistanis can’t do anything about it peacefully or otherwise.

    2. N-Indians are sentimental abt ethnicities who backstab. Though it has been changing somewhat lately.

  57. It would be hilarious if we began to see Indian equivalents of “Brexit” sentiments from some of the richer states. What’s the desi version of “euroscepticism”?

    I have always assumed that the Indian project was more robust than the EU one, but perhaps that assumption would need to be revisited. As fertility differentials widen, nativism in places like TN could spike if combined with increased migration.

    1. More like Scotland leaving UK. There are two states which have this sentiment: TN and Punjab with Khalistan and Dravida-Nadu/Periyar-premi-sangh. Both movements have some ‘racial’ element with one thinking they are fair and thus different while other thinking they are darker and thus different. Neither are serious threats.

      1. Scotland and the rest of the UK are quite similar in economic wealth and share the same language (even in Wales, English is normative). Neither is true between TN and e.g. Bihar/UP.

        So I think my Brexit comparison is more apt. Most of it was centered around Eastern European immigrants. Mind you that such xenophobia was not about skin color (certainly Poles are pretty light-skinned and blue-eyed) but rather about being flooded with non-English speakers from poorer parts of Europe. So both linguistic/cultural factors as well as a form of snobbery.

        Is there any serious danger to these kinds of secessionist sentiments to gain ground in some wealthier Southern states, if they keep getting flooded by BIMARU migrants? I do not know. Only someone in Tamil Nadu would be equipped to answer that question. It’s certainly something I used to completely dismiss as impossible but perhaps that was a mistake. We’ll see.

        1. Majority is pro-India. Neither ethnicities have big reasons to go all in. Neither can take a beating.

          Fair-and-Lovelies/Periyar-premis and Khalistanis must also remember that ‘BIMARU migrants’ make stuff: roads, houses, … they build things, thanklessly toil under the sun in inhuman conditions from Bhutan to Qatar. They should also consider their stand when they deal with NIs like me after doing this and coming to study hair dressing in Canada planning to marry a cow to get PR or get a job from a ‘consulting’ (LoL!) company in California after refining their heavy madraasi accent at Rama-Murgan engineering college >> nowheres-ville state university.

          1. Tamils can’t have it both ways. Indians, POC, … when convenient, asshole otherwise. If there is a schism, let it be known and we will go our different ways. My house in the same mohalla as these BIMARU richshaw pullers and thela-wala people. I wash the feet of their daughters on nav-durga. I consider them my people and not any angreeji speaking Tamils who insult them.

  58. @ugra Mate, the Troll of Year Award goes to you! You sent poor bhimrao into 5 stages of grief with a silly khalistani tweet.

    1. Bade teer maar liye. Olympic ka gold jeet liye… waah! shaabash!

      You win, I lose. Ab Khush?

      It had that effect because it was unexpected coming from Ugra. If let us say thewarlock (Gujju) starts trolling UP people it would feel bad too.

      People show their true aukaat when they are anonymous. Everyone is nice on the face.

      1. Why was it unexpected though?

        Dude bullshits most of the time, putting out wrong info to mislead NRIs on the blog about all things India. Anyone who has grown up in India, or has spent any extended time knows it.

        1. Caricaturizing with pictorial comparison and gutkha…

          I have already dragged this more than I should have. Mujhe ghanta farak nai padta.

          1. Bhai chintit na hon.
            Seems like more and more Indians/ NRI’s are getting enlightened after reading cherry picked fluff data published everywhere.
            All these enlightened citizens want to kick Us out, poor and dirty UPHARI (UP+biHARI).

            Haha, Good Luck with that.

            The dilemma for them is, as economically backward as we are, there are just way too many of us out there; many poor, few Bright but all Brave. It is ground reality.

            We still and always will hold the power on the street*.

            *Street power index is published neither by The Economist nor KPMG, so enlightened ones may not know.

            Enlightened ones should Pray that we always remain poor and dirty because if we get out of this misery which I know we will in next 30-40 yrs, imagine what will happen. Hahahah.

            Sadar Pranam,

            Jai UP Jai Bihar (aur sampoorna Bharatvarsha)

  59. Fellow South Indians and esp Kannadigas,
    have more kids and this is important have a majority of them stay back in India.


    1. Fellow South Indians and esp Kannadigas,
      have more kids …

      kannada muslims have lots of kids, and they all stay back in india too. i am sure you can trust them to protect your culture, your religion, your temples and your women. just drive out those useless N indians.

      1. Interesting and revealing that a fairly positive/exhortative comment elicits this kind of response.

          1. Only Folks who don’t know the history of Vijay nagara nor have visited ruins hampi, badami can make such comments.

      2. Scorpion @
        I don’t have any animus against NIs working in Bluru or in KA. Kannadigas are settled and well integrated throughout IN and last 2-3 decades even in the west. We are not ingrates. We want to preserve both our language and religion. My advice was precisely to avoid having to sacrifice language.

        1. Here is the thing:

          I have never met anyone in NI who is unwilling to learn Kannada or Tamil or Telugu. They are just lazy like everyone else. They don’t read their own Dinkar, Nirala, or Sumitranandan Pant, you expect them to pick up a Kannada book to make you, who pay them minimum wage to pick bricks, happy. Not going to happen.

          Maybe play smart and open schools for the poor folks from NI with Kannada as the compulsory language of instruction. Put your money where your mouth is. If Mangalorean Christians can go to Itanangar for a foreign god why can’t Bangalorean Hindus do anything about their own language?

          1. Bhimrao,
            No one is expecting manual labor to pick up a kannada book and read. The only expectation is they pick up a few colloquial phrases during daily interaction.
            Forget the labor, how many folks working in IT even make an effort to pick up a few colloquial phrases. I meet plenty of NIs in US who spent a good 5-10 years in Bluru but hardly know 2-3 syllables (usually to say “kannad got illa” meaning “I don’t know kannada “) of Kannada.
            In 2021, the state government has introduced a policy that kannada must be taught compulsory as second language even in English medium schools regardless of cbse, icse or state board. You should see quora, twitter discussions around these. Heck there is a change.org petition to ask the state government to stop this.
            And a major part of the blame lies on fellow kannadigas. Hence my exhortation to procreate so that there is atleast a critical mass of people to carry on our language and religion/culture. But even such statements are countered with a choice to choose between language and religion.

          2. You guys should do something about it. I suggested schooling. The software people you mentioned pay 30% tax, work for multinationals not Kannada employers and over all give far more than they take. They won’t budge no matter what you do. The only ones you can control are the poor ones. Make it convenient, market your language better, raise barriers. Make more babies if you can. Stop this shameful culture of making US visa the very goal in life (for Telugus).

            NIs like me have plenty of other headaches of their own. Language and education are state issues, figure something out. Not my problem as a NI.

        2. Maharashtra has done well in this regard. Most folks who grew up in Mumbai learn Marathi in school and can speak at least a bit of it. This is despite Hinglish being the lingua franca of the city. Marathi films also do well.

          Kannadigas should try to replicate that. Karnataka folks are probably the most chilled out and welcoming people in the country. I am sure 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants will learn the language out of affection.

  60. Interesting background article on Apple’s move out of China.

    https://archive.ph/7bP4j

    They write a bit about India. The biggest bottleneck seems to be governmental co-ordination. Every state in India wants it piece of the pie and the central government cannot easily bully them, especially the non-BJP southern states (Apple’s biggest mfg plant is in Tamil Nadu).

    Right now, India accounts for maybe 5% of worldwide iPhone production. Apple wants that to go to 40-45%.

    1. First it was ease of doing business, then infrastructure and now its ‘governmental coordination’.

      The simple explanation is that global co’s have invested trillions of dollars into the Chinese supply chain and cant simply exit. The Western lifestyle is just too dependent on a flow of cheap Chinese goods.

  61. Lol at ‘Euro-scepticism’ in India.

    The majority of the people in all these states know that the only thing standing between them and anarchy is the Indian state.

    Punjabi Hindus or Mazhabis are not going to live under total Jatt domination. Neither are Tamil SCs going to under Tamil middle castes.

    The neighbours are not all that sympathetic either. I remember many years ago, I was on a family trip to Kerala where we had booked a cab.

    Our Mallu driver who had lived in Bombay and the gulf before returning home had some particularly nasty things to say about Tamils. One of the lines that’s struck with me because it seemed darkly funny went something like this – “The Sri Lankans know how to properly treat Tamils.”

    As sinister as this is, one should realise that most Indians irrespective of ethnicity have a habit of chatting shit. Some groups end up taking their shit too seriously.

    1. ‘One of the lines that’s struck with me because it seemed darkly funny went something like this – “The Sri Lankans know how to properly treat Tamils.”’

      There is a reason the CAA doesn’t include Tamils 😉

    2. To be clear, I’m not predicting some states try to break away. And even if someone tried, I suspect the Indian government would go to enormous lengths to prevent that, including armed intervention. So that’s not really on the cards.

      I’m talking more on the lines of soft separatist sentiment. We’re already seeing some signs of this, e.g. some states are putting in limits on which jobs non-state migrants can apply for.

      https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/haryana-local-quota-in-jobs-has-national-implications-hc/articleshow/90062144.cms

      And on social media, I’m seeing more and more of this sentiment. Perhaps it was always there and Twitter has simply made it more visible. Hard to say.

      1. TBH, I actually want couple of states to try to break away.

        We all know which states will try. At least that will finally settle the whole more Indian/Hindu debate.

    3. Meh, I say balkanize. Reddy/Kamma rule in Telugu Nadu can’t be worse than the Brahmin-Baniya nexus of Hindu Rashtra.

  62. mr udahyvanya is back to healing himself with philosophical stockholms syndrome after being supre triggerd for many months.I was worried

  63. # “You guys should do something about it. I suggested schooling” – bhim rao-uvacha.
    if ‘i t guys’ don’t learn kannada, no issues. the people in so called lower professions like construction, servers in hotels etc are already learning and using kannada by their circumstances. so no issue and there are not very rigid like the ‘i t guys’ saying kannad baralla.
    in any darshini hotel in the mornings one gets the query ‘ chitra anna beku’ , so no one worries.
    marwadis are the best integrated immigrant community in bangalore!!!

    1. 🤷 then what is the complaint? If majority integrate then why this discussion? In Banares, and Lucknow I have also answered the query, ‘Mazala dos-ssa?’ at street side eateries run and staffed by Madraasis.

      Most my software friends hop jobs every 2 years and move between Bangalore-Noida-Pune-Hyderabad. The unfortunate ones who have to work for shitty Infosys go to Mysore-Chennai-Coimbatore-Kakinada and such. None of them work for any Kannada employer or make money from any Kannada project. Many pay 60-70k in rents to Kannada land lords who do all sorts of tricks with deposits to swindle renters. Nome of them buys property there. They pay for a local Kannada/Tamil cook and maybe even nanny. They will do what they please, make too much noise and they will leave.

  64. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oneindia.com/amphtml/india/the-rise-of-pro-khalistan-amritpal-singh-should-worry-aam-aadmi-party-more-in-punjab-3493472.html

    Do not ignore this. Arminder Singh has been warning of it for awhile. Arms are flowing via drones. Rural areas are ripe grounds for this ideology. Disenchantment with being a pure agro state is rising and there will be a limit on how many can leave via visa. Demographic change is coming with migration and conversions to Christianity. Reactionary forces will become more common. Attention has to be paid.

  65. The Sasaram Cave incident in Bihar is once again an illustrative sample of political fragility and cultural degradation in the Gangetic heartland. It is home to one of the Thirteen Minor Rock Edicts of Ashoka from 232 BCE in a small cave.

    In 2005, a group of local Muslims occupied the cave and declared it to be a “holy place” based on the stay of a Fakir. A tomb (Mazar) was built inside the cave and the place declared holy.

    Japanese and Sri Lankan tourists (from the religious circuit) were turned away by the encroachers on visits. ASI, the Central caretaker of the Rock Edict was helpless without the intervention of the local administration.

    Years passed and the Fakir had become a local legend drawing thousands of Muslim devotees. Efforts were made to wipe the Rock Edict of Ashoka by defacing it with paint.

    There was no local opposition to this act. A few stray complaints from some public figures. Innovative approaches were needed to rouse the local communities into action.

    The Kushwaha community, which claims its roots to the Mauryan dynasty, were sensitised. Local MLAs from this community got into action and prepared countermeasures. The local administration finally woke up. Last month, the Muslim “Shrine Committee” handed over the keys to the structure in a ceremonial function!

    The Buddha and his most famous lay-follower were saved from cultural digestion by jati. There is a lesson here for anti-caste keyboard warriors.

    1. This only illustrates the high levels of unemployment and government incompetence in Bihar.

      Otherwise, a group of people spending their political capital on a connection based on questionable provenance would not be needed.

      1. Governance deficit is always the norm in Bihar.

        But why do you think the Muslims backed down once a jati group mobilised? Isn’t jati fulfilling a clear role of cultural conservation here where the modern state has abdicated?

        All prescriptions (Savarkar, Ambedkar, Periyar) fail to fill the vacuum of jati mobilization.

        1. “But why do you think the Muslims backed down once a jati group mobilised? Isn’t jati fulfilling a clear role of cultural conservation here where the modern state has abdicated?”

          the vacating of the most entrenched squatting of a hindu holy place, i.e. the ramjanmabhumi, was accomplished by mobilizing hindus across the caste barriers.

  66. ugra is that sad person who keeps forgetting all the time. Suffers from the serious problem that the very thing he supports also undercuts him and gets abused easily for divide and rule. But he loves it a lot because it can cut paper.
    Adaptation is a thing. Change is a thing. That one can cut paper in otherways too is not something he is capable of understanding.

    1. @phyecho1

      The people of Sasaram don’t understand your sophistry. Go refill your champagne flute and come back with a better argument.

  67. I sad you are forgetful because we already had this argument before and we seemed to have agreed from my recollection.

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