Open Thread – 10/31/2020 – Brown Pundits

By Razib Khan 201 Comments

So I started a Subreddit. You can start your own threads there. Eventually, that might make the “open threads” redundant (they are not scaling well with ~400 comments per week).

I’ve posted a few podcasts on the Patreon. One is a new podcast from Richard Hanania, where he takes a skeptical stance toward France in relation to the late unpleasantness. But several are from the Substack I’m starting shortly (probably next week). Probably won’t be posting those in the future.

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201 Replies to “Open Thread – 10/31/2020 – Brown Pundits”

    1. Its incredible how important Bollywood is to these folks. Its a bit ironic, because Bollywood is seen as a bit low-brow in Indian metros.

      1. Indian Americans do not have a subculture of their own (distinct from motherland), or its in the process of being formed. Unlike African-Americans or even Guyanese-Indians or British Indians.

  1. A quoran wrote that Middle Eastern & South Asian men regularly harass white women and she shared her own experience.

    Based on your experience, are such aggressive behaviors by brown men really widespread?
    Or are these just exaggerated rumors?

    1. (You need to provide a link if you are going to ask questions on the basis of what’s on a particular website.)

      Generally speaking, I wouldn’t be surprised at such reports, at least with reference to Indian men. In most of India (though this is changing in the bigger cities), there isn’t much of a space for men and women to interact in a sexual or flirtatious manner. It is culturally expected that men and (especially) women do not interact much with members of the opposite sex until they are in the process of arranging a marriage. (Universities, at least when I went to college, had segregated dorms with very strict prohibitions on men visiting womens’ hostels and vice versa.)

      Indian women, therefore, refrain from doing a lot of things that Western women take for granted. Indian men, not expecting such behavior (I don’t mean just sexual, but rather, women not being very modest in dress, speech, etc.) from women in general, tend to behave as louts in reaction.

      (If I knew what specifically this quora article was talking about, I could offer more observations, but you need to provide a link first.)

  2. https://theprint.in/national-interest/5-reasons-for-the-crisis-in-global-islam/534270/

    ” And last, because of a democratic deficit, in most Islamic countries you cannot even protest, express your resentment against your regime. You might feel sickened that your royalty is sold to the American Satan, but you can do nothing about it. Not shout a slogan, wave a placard, write a blog, a letter to the editor, even a tweet. This could land you in a jail forever, or get you beheaded. So, you go and do it where you can.

    That is why, in 2003, I wrote a ‘National Interest’ headlined Globalisation of Revenge. Because you cannot do any of this in your country, you do it in Europe, America. You cannot even whisper a word in anger in your brutally-controlled national security state, so you go to another. Where you can freely live, train to be airline pilots, and then slam those planes into the twin towers. Where even Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has the right to a somewhat fair trial. You can’t fight your masters, so why not punish the master’s masters? Isn’t this globalisation of revenge?”

    1. Is there any evidence that more democracy in Muslim countries makes the general population more religiously tolerant?

    2. @Numinous

      Certainly an argument can be made that democracies have pressure valves. Any autocracy who might have pushed NRC/CAA would have led to violent pushback (there still might be) instead of street protests. Since there is theoretical chance that ur side can still come to power, you don’t throw the baby out with bathwater. Unless ur an autocracy as competent as the Chinese.

      So perhaps not as religiously tolerant, but less violent

      @Prats

      Gupta – Marry ( very vanilla )
      Joseph – Fuck ( very kinky and out of box)
      Patel -Kill ( he knows our secrets and tells them aloud)

  3. So I recently heard a funny story from a college friend about one of those classic Indian aunty vs working-class person interactions. His neighbors were renovating their place, and the lady overseeing the work was complaining to the electricians and plumbers about how expensive hiring them was and asked why she did not have many options choosing among them.

    One of the younger (and rather brave) guys setting up fittings then asked her jokingly whether they could rest by sitting on the sofa and leaving their shoes inside the landing area of the house instead of outside. The aunty then gave him a scandalous look, as if he had emptied the fridge without her knowing. Then he continued in Hindi, saying something along the lines of “Ma’am, if we work in an office in a shirt and pants we can have dignity, now we do things with our hands and there will always be a distance between us and ameer log (rich people). So people don’t do our job if they can avoid it, and we can get good prices from customers because there are less of us. But even if we are richer we won’t be seen as equal.”

    Unless egalitarian values get more widespread it looks like there’ll be a dearth of blue-collar utilitarian labour, not just with the example above, but also skilled factory hands required in any industrializing society.

    ———-

    Along the same lines, I have a couple of questions for the Indian commentators here (also for Indian-origin people while they visit the country):

    1. Do you/ does your family allow for domestic help and blue-collar workers similar amenities as a visiting white-collar person? Eg. can they sit on the sofa/chairs around the house while they’re waiting or inactive like an insurance agent does when he/she comes to visit?

    2. Is the equilibrium level of rudeness/sternness higher while interacting with blue-collar people compared to white-collar people? Eg. I’ve sometimes noticed people having a lower boiling point for minor infarctions such as not standing in a queue- a cleaner would get loudly reprimanded immediately, whereas a middle-age housewife won’t get confronted at all or at most is politely told about it.

    3. Would you/ your family get automatically more polite with service staff if there are other guests/visitors of the same socioeconomic class in the vicinity?

    4. How much will the opinion you/ your family hold of an individual change depending on his/her revealed socioeconomic background in terms of interacting in a public space, and the general respect/dismissiveness directed at him/her based upon knowing this information?

    1. I’m not the best subject for your survey, because I’m WEIRD and live alone. I see such behavior exhibited by other people, and have tried to avoid such behavior myself (modulo any unconscious bias I may have): I never haggle with electricians, plumbers, car-washers, etc. I offer seating on the couch, cold water (if it’s a hot day), etc. Sometimes, the workmen don’t take up my offer of seating and I don’t press them (not sure what this means.)

      To digress from your theme a little bit, I’ve seen different negative effects of this implicit class structure and work-denigration. It’s hard to find an electrician who understands and can fix everything you need to fix in a proper manner. The lack of respect given to such professions results in people not wanting to to explore the depths of their trade and be perfectionists. Why work hard in your field if you can get by learning the basic tricks of the trade and making money? After all, doing a better job won’t get you more respect (or money, given that Indians are mostly skinflints). So a lot of our plumbing and electrical work output tends to be scrappy and prone to failure, resulting in low quality and the need for frequent maintenance.

  4. Discussion point:

    White race originated in Vinca, I2a – Dinarides.

    R1b, Yamnaya people were dark, short, chubby mongoloids with genocidal genes who started almost all wars in last 5000 years. I2A women made western Europe white and gave them their Serbian language to form their later languages.

    1. Yamnaya people were taller than any Neolithic European average I have come across. Do you have any sources for this?

      1. I am still curious about those measurement you brought up before. Do you know if that relates to the indus valley skulls?

        1. There is the John Marshall volume (don’t remember which one) that has values for it. I’ll post it later on today.

          1. thanks I am curious which ancient people I resemble the most. For modern people, I think it is those of the southern Thar desert and saurashtra generally

          2. https://books.google.ca/books?id=Ds_hazstxY4C&pg=PA642&lpg=PA642&dq=al+ubaid+skull+keith&source=bl&ots=XqanNUaLa2&sig=ACfU3U1qczfq3PmQhN9mDA9aOq1-xjq5XQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizs__5j77oAhVCYTUKHfAoCTEQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=al%20ubaid%20skull%20keith&f=false

            ^ this one may not have all pages but is clearer.

            https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.107493/page/n259/mode/2up

            ^ not as clear but has all pages.

            The group B has a higher total facial index than group A, meaning narrower faces in terms of the ratio of total face length : bizygomatic.

            Not sure if the comment will make it because of the urls.

          3. I posted the unapproved comment number 77028, we will have to see if it makes it through because of the URLs.

          4. I have heard that Dienekes used to have this calculator which would compare input measurements to various existing ‘templates’ along with the statistical distance to the most similar template. But it has been down for several years.

      2. There are quite a few, DT, some information can be found even in wiki e.g. about Cromagnons. I will publish new comment with some exclusive information, stay tuned and you may express your impressions and say if you are impressed with my expressions. To be on the same page, when you say ‘European’, what do you assume under this name, i.e. which haplogroup? DO you agree with one eminent geneticist that no modern nation can be associated with Cro-Magnons as their successors?

        Just to remind newly arrived pundits that DT was the last year laureate who most closely explained the meaning of the word – Asia. This year, probably because of the covid, we did not get satisfactory responses and the award wasn’t granted. For the term – Europe – awards were not granted neither for the last nor for this year.

        And, to use this opportunity and remind about our outstanding tasks:
        – #2: DUMBAS (Alexander the Great – Greek?),
        – #3: KNOWLEDGE ZERO (G2 replaced Vinca’s genetics),
        – to explain RB (e.g. SRB=Serb),
        – PIR (pronounced – peer, which strayed from Serbian to the ‘ancient’ Greek and the most of worldwide and SA languages) and, of course,
        – RG.

    2. “I2A women made western Europe white and gave them their Serbian language”

      I thought that the gods gave people the Serbian language?

      1. Just tell us percentage of Pashtun blood that we have – Pashupati the divine who is at once both lover and beloved simultaneously – it’s obvious Pashupati ~ Pashtun is primordial racial group . (Euro is just an ethnicity) Close culturally r Kurd Baloch and Jat – “ror” stop with ur lame divide and rule -ameritrash ain’t no zogbrit with multispecies fluoride addled mob descending like vultures upon sacrosanct territory
        Between Jat and Pathan our deep ancestry is different: Medes and Parthian who were kinfolk both Persians of yore days long since past. Once I read Thracian personages were also part of our kin groups. Memories of Thrace. Famous tribes end up becoming important household words – Thrace trace? Euro art is being shown to be simple tracing with some gadget – even a dog can trace with paws.
        Scythe Scythian
        Medes media medium
        Pashtun
        Patna birthplace 10th and final Master of Sikhi
        Pathan
        We need to compile comprehensive compendium on words but this ain’t the place – this website seems jewmerican. Not exactly bengaliasthan is it ? Tropical swamp could have great parts of our beloved AfPak but we lost the tropics – next chance we get we take it – every polity needs tropical region for relaxation +40 degrees heat vs -40 Celsius mountains and most arable agricultural land on planet SatGuru dharti “plains” (happily feeding 1.5 billion aryadharmik demographic strength . )will obviously create different looks . For the record luminous pure white skin of purest pagan caucasoid is found amongst primal groups of arysaka man amongst lots of Pashtun and select Jat- I’ve seen this with my own eyes -ror Jat stop dividing us by ridiculous parameters – zog mrika can’t even pull off proper divide and rule – comparing mlecch mormon control group lol (ugliest eyes they have and sinister image ) mormon who r admittedly polygamous jews lineages with devout vegetarian AfPakHind Sikh muslim pagan is crazy sinister and akin to comparing Amrit with zehar nectar and poison –
        Pashupati RigVedic Rudra known as Sri Shiva the most merciful – Pashtun Pathan Patna – legendary birthplace of 10th master of Sikhi ——— everyone knows this – feigning to not know •won’t •absolve jewmerica at den Haag for war crimes against primordial AryaSaka progenitor of mankind . Culturally we have nothing to do with serb- nothing . AfPakHind temperature varies from plus 40 to minus 40 Celsius .
        Emerging Eurasia superstate will be purely an Afpak affair – betray r trust once u r excluded hindjew ameritrash – hands off Mithraix lands – this is never conquered terrain – never — herodatus is as much a fraud as stein jewhadwatch etc
        Iran chamber states Jat serb Croat have common origin but gap between eurozog conspires to keep us separate plus cultural differences of major aspiring so-called superpowers who in third world manner use army to murder their own citizens – zogmerica euro zog hindjew keep us divided and we must maintain this fraud of euro vs third world even though we r primordial tribes of AryaSaka- Persianate civilization IndIran is in tatters – why r currencies r so embarrassingly lacking in strength ?
        I don’t what jewmerica does – jewmerica will not be part of afpakHind actual emerging Eurasian superstate the actual silk roads of obvious children of man not mlecch not infectious nor mulato – damn bania wants us toiling in factories while he swindles away stock market – not gonna happen . Tscandal ain’t asian— Pashtunic Pashupati tribesmen r actual progenitor and actual asian rhymes with Croatian – atrocity occurred at Croatia and Panjab target Panjab national – euro petty fights being settled by murdering us will have eternal ramifications consequences for jewmerica- you’ll never visa – never – two can play petty game .
        Sivananda
        Yogananda
        Osho
        Sant Thakar Singh
        We all reject your condemned borders u inhuman monsters cannot find shelter for what has been proven by science to be kinfolk – kurukshetra option is always on the table –
        Guest as god no longer applies to euro mlecch
        Our afpak white skin is luminous naturally unlike u bhut of zog none of euro or lol lebantine with obvious concealed negro facial morphology of bones quasialbino none of u possess Pamiristan gifted AfPakHind cheerful naturally pink cheeks – none of u- none of your science would have gotten off the ground without Bose of bengaliasthan- plus our divine RigVed- it’s AfPakHind sapt Sindhu
        Damn u Torah talmudic trash foreign policy –
        U can’t even drink milk for effs sake. Canola oil is deadly trashCanada substandard product as worthless as margarines. Plastic butter is definition of margarine.

        1. Autocorrect of zog made errors
          Infectious is to read as insectoid
          Cia xtianity murder r kin at Amritsar
          Damn mlecch habitually mispronounce Panjab Kashmir and even Amritsar is mispronounced – intezar for scalar weapons –

      2. You thought well, TeeGee. Hope you tied your Hors in a shade in front of saloon? It was given to the marvellous race and they unselfishly passed further to the rest. Sorry to hear that my poster sent to you stacked somewhere in this postcovid delivery congestion. I am resending you free of charge (with a minor typo) to decorate your wall:

        http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19950911,00.html

  5. Reposting, hoping to hear from Slaptstick and other Sanskrit experts.

    Another explanation for the meaning of “Rig” in “RigVeda”:

    In fact the “RigVeda” takes its name from these verses: the Sanskrit word for “verse”
    is r̥c; when compounded with the word for knowledge, it yields
    r̥g-veda, literally “knowledge/wisdom (consisting of) verses.”

    @Milan you might find this interesting.

    1. Thanks, eNeM,
      I saw your post. I was waiting for Sanskrit experts to explain this to all of us and after that I may or may not give, if it is interesting, my amateurish version.

      1. Pretty good effort and intellectual curiosity, eNeM. I knew for the explanation you found. It is disappointing that none from oit is coming to give us their view. I may go directly to (tg)horse’s mouth and send an email to Talageri with same question.

        Well, while we are waiting for Godo to send his comment, let’s analyse some background details.

        First, is this question/meaning an important thing?
        Definitely, without any further elaboration.

        Why is it difficult to answer?
        I saw few translations, but none was satisfactory to me. I was accepting them as loosely descriptions of the content, but they were not good enough. We need the exact and convincing translation. It is difficult if we don’t know what Sanskrit is, where originated and which are its successors. This fact is a showstopper.

        How old is Rg Veda?
        There are estimates from 1500BC till 3500BC, it means – pretty old, and not very far from the transition from pra-language to language (whatever does it mean, but definitely not PIE>IE).

        What is characteristic for this transitional period?
        We can say that first primordial spoken sounds imitated the sounds from the nature. These sounds were (mostly) consonants. The first words were based on couple consonants. Is there a language today where every consonant has some specific meaning? I will leave to someone to answer this.

        The characteristic of the first language is that from monosyllabic consonants were created over time hundreds of new words. I recently presented one example – in Serbian language consonants GL are frequently used and hundreds of words were built around them (e.g. GLava=head). Latin language adopted these consonants and the same word for ‘head’. However, they have only one word with GL, it means that this is not their word and that many new words were built arbitrarily, not organically.

        RG is a consonant group, and we need to find what is its primordial meaning. So far, we had proposed meanings ‘praise’ and ‘verse’. It is hard for me to imagine that someone 5500 years ago said – Hey guys, let’s make a praise to our gods. But not in prose then in verses and not only because it is easier to sing then because it will be very cool.

        In summary (and as a suggestion to future researchers) – the meaning of RG must be something very BASIC. My assertion is that the speakers of the language which has most of the words that contain RG were creators of Rg Veda.

        I know that there are quite a few non-English native speakers around, they are welcomed and invited to submit their applications and propositions. I will live with you eNeM to conduct a final countdown.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

        1. Any luck, eNeM? Any response? Not even oit? It is real shame. We can give them some additional time for response and after that we should contact Anan. I think he is in contact with Talageri.

  6. In this official tweetstorm from Iran’s Supreme Leader in April 2019, when he was entertaining IK, Ali Khameini spouted thus –

    The dignity and majesty of the Indian peninsula was highest during the time Muslims ruled over it; and the biggest blow that the British stroke in this important area was abolishing the eminent Islamic civilization.

    https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1120372497805869060

    I will not venture into the intelligence of this madarssa-educated man nor the political setting in which he obviously wanted to impress IK. But if there are Iran-watchers or Iranians on BP, what is the modern Iranian self-conception of the times before Rashidun? Do they think those were the times of jahillya or do they elevate them to a golden age like Indians do it with the Maurya/Gupta/Chola empires?

    1. This reminds me , for my recommendation of the week. Please watch Tehran on Apple TV.

      Iranian self conception is the same as S-Indians self conception vis-v Hinduism. Follow a foreign religion which they think as their own. And the way they justify is by claiming that the inventor of the religion (N-Indians/ Arabs) are essentially ‘jahillya’. And they themselves are the real inheritors/contributors to the religion.

      1. Tehran is another run-of-the-mill Israeli fanboi writing.

        The rest of your reply is like the UPSC aspirant who has mugged up the essay on cows. On being presented a question on coconut trees, he starts with “The coconut tree is tall, there is a cow tied to it. The cow…..” 🙂

      2. That’s underselling the Iraninan impact on Islam.. Iranian culture and administration pretty much took over Islam in Asia since the Abassids, and the even the Turks adopted Persianate traditions when accepting Islam, so Persianate culture, Persianate administration was dominant for more than a 1000 years (including in India).. The Arabian peninsula was the backwater of Islam until the oil boom. I don’t think South Indians ever had that kind of impact on Hinduism, but I maybe wrong.

        1. But what do they think of Darius, Cyrus? Again you are only regressing to the events of post-Rashidun. Official Iran (only the Islamic Republic) obviously has ended up in a memory hole. The Pahlavis had different ideas about the pre-Islamic Iran.

          1. they are of mixed opinions. the islamic republic tried to get rid of nowruz but couldn’t. there is a faction of secular right-wing iranians who are very anti-muslim. LARP as zoroastrians, and very racist against arabs

          2. @Ugra
            Pre-Islamic Iranian names are common in Muslim households across South and Central Asia.
            Names like Parvez, Shehriyar, Aftab, Sikandar, Farzana, Shabana, etc etc Don’t think anyone has anything against Cyrus or Darius, pehaps Rustm though

            It seemed like Muslims became comfortable with adopting Pre Islamic Iraninan heroes (Ferdowsi’s Shahnameh for example).. after Iran co-opted Islam into its framework

            Indian names did not become common amongst Indian Muslims however. That’s an interesting discussion as to why.

          1. That’s interesting – before the Iranian influence on Islam (that came to India), they had already tremendously influenced the Kushans, whom Samudragupta calls as “Shahi Shahanu” on the Prayag pillar inscription. Obviously the naming influence lingering well in to the medieval Shahi dynasties and modern Shah.

            The Kushans were operating in the former strongholds of Sasanians. Before the Sassanians, Indian territories were also under Cyrus of the Achaeminids. We have an unbroken attested line of 2500 years of Indian and Iranian competition.

        2. “Persianate administration was dominant for more than a 1000 years (including in India).. The Arabian peninsula was the backwater of Islam until the oil boom.”

          Arabs were the backwater just like N-India was under Muslim rule for 100s of years , and S-India under ‘Hindu rule’ . But once the yoke is removed, the backwater assumes its ‘rightful’ place as the originator of religion.

          “I don’t think South Indians ever had that kind of impact on Hinduism, but I maybe wrong.”

          That’s y i said ‘self conception’ . No use fighting it. ?

    1. They understand the burden of the radical haleem. Sadly, S Asia is saddled with it for the foreseeable future. Only hope is liberalization and integration. But that is so damn hard. Or people just realizing organized religion is dumb.

  7. It seemed like Muslims became comfortable with adopting Pre Islamic Iraninan heroes (Ferdowsi’s Shahnameh for example).. after Iran co-opted Islam into its framework

    the revival of iranian names occurred in the 900s, when being iranian became disassociated with being zoroastrian. this is clearly in the textual evidence (names of muslim iranian nobles in rural areas are very arabic and shift to iranian over time).

  8. Pre-Islamic Iranian names are common in Muslim households across South and Central Asia.
    Names like Parvez, Shehriyar, Aftab, Sikandar, Farzana, Shabana, etc etc Don’t think anyone has anything against Cyrus or Darius, pehaps Rustm though

    some muslims criticize this too. i mean brown muslims. ‘good names’ should be arabic they say.

    1. It’s recent Khaleeji influence, many South Asians have gone to work in the peninsula, and returned after adopting Arabic Salafism and preference for Arabic names. It also does help that common Arabic first names are shorter than common Persian ones in my opinion, and in a westernized South Asia, names like Ali, Omar, Usman, Osama, Talal etc are easier to pronounce that multiple syllables of Persian names like Shahriyar, Khurshid, Bakhtawar etc etc.

      long term, I don’t think this trend of shunning Persian names will last much.. The history of Persian names amongst Muslims is very long.

  9. i think arabic names are more common among bengalis. i think that’s partly due to the weaker influence/further distance from iran vis a vis pakistan.

  10. “Biden’s comparatively inefficient vote is likely to mirror Hillary Clinton’s from four years ago. Biden will do incredibly well in the heavily populated states of California, Illinois, New Jersey, and New York. In these states, and in others reliably painted a deep Democratic blue, he will rack up enormous margins of victory over Trump, providing him with the potential to score a national popular vote victory, yet probably depriving him of sufficient votes in Iowa, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Arizona, North Carolina, and Florida to turn Trump into a one-term president.

    I think Biden will have less of the popular vote compared to Hillary.
    Reason: Latino and Af Ams are not voting
    Why: Fake Black Kamala Harris and her tough on crime record.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1354506/us-election-2020-donald-trump-win-poll-democracy-institute-joe-biden-swing-states

    1. That Biruni character looks like a first class troll. But on a second glance, his other tweets are sane. He does not understand that migration routes require archaeological proof, which even the most hardcore AIT/AMT supporters in academia shy away from providing.

      Might as well draw arrows from the Steppes to Makran and then to Gujarat/Karnataka/Kerala by sea. Or rounding Kanyakumari to Bengal and sailing the Ganges upriver. That is equally plausible.

      1. How can people consider Steppe pastoralists to cross Makran Desert into the subcontinent, or sail around the Indian ocean upriver Ganges, equally plausible to crossing over from the Khyber pass like most other ”invasions/migrations”?

        1. @ S Qureishi

          Because. Normally you have a hard falsifying criterion in physical sciences. Example – I can theorize that there is an undiscovered planet between Earth and Mars, which has not been spotted visually. But if it indeed exists, it will cause the orbits of Mars and Earth to “wobble” when they meet at the closest apsis. So the lack of a wobble is a definitive falsifying criterion. In fact this wobbling is why astronomers are speculating the existence of a “Planet Nine” far outside the orbit of Pluto.

          For AIT/AMT – archaeology, the only empirical falsifiable criterion, has not turned up anything. Nil. So we are free to speculate. There is nothing to falsify my theory that the Aryans went through the Arabian Sea into Bay of Bengal and sailed up the Ganges. In fact, the Bell Beaker migration into Europe has both riverine and sea migration routes as a mode of dispersal. So there is historical precedence.

          All the invasions of India (Greeks, Sakas, Kushanas, Alchons, Khiljis, Mughals) have left a archaeological trail. And Indians have recorded their arrival meticulously in their narratives.

          1. There maybe historical precedence for those modes of entry in Europe or other places around the world, but I am not sure if there is any historical precedence for that in India. Infact, just based on historical precedence of Greeks, Sakas, Kushanas, Alchons, Khiljis, Mughals, and their points of entry, I would say it isn’t equally plausible with the Aryans crossing the Makran desert or sailing around the peninsula..
            Also, I am not getting into the AIT/OIT debate, just the plausibility of the invasion/migration routes..

          2. There is no clinching evidence by way of self reference or historical memory or archeological evidence Aryas came from outside India. Case that aryas in India came from outside the subcontinent is circumstantial at best and even speculative – linguistic and genetic. They are bright ideas to fill up academic industry

        2. VeeVee, you should put back on your common-sense hat, unless you intend to impress anonymous Leena (where is she?) or Wonder Woman with this one.

  11. Razib, you should write a book which is more or less a South Asian version of David Reich’s “Who we are and how we got here”. A one stop shop for anyone interested in South Asian genetics and a useful compendium of various studies and sources, hell it could even be a very long blog post that is continually improved and amended.

  12. ch Cat is back DarienX • 3 hours ago
    My family chose private school too. All fine points in fantasy land or 1950. But today’s White parents in urban areas,, who are not remotely responsible for todays situation shouldn’t be preached to about their situation. They didn’t run, they aren’t responsible, theyre surrounded by liberal democrats and your going to preach how their children are missing out on intelligent debate by pulling their kids out of a public school???? Why do you assume that these White parents aren’t more equipped to teach their children better than professors laqueesha and shontel??? You used private schools, why? Why didn’t you follow your own sermon and “demand and get better fir (sic)their kids and even their tax money which funds public schools”????? Nope you ran away and put your kids in Our Lady of Hypocrisy.
    Like I said stop already.
    2

    Reply

    Share ›

    Our lady of hypocrisy lol ~ ejewcation at stillborn at amErica
    They don’t have adequate knowledge to homeschool either as another commentator pointed out – aww is it sweetened gulabi iow pink popcorn time yet?
    Anyone not fluent in Persian is illiterate actually ~ only poetry of greater persia irIran Zamin matters – the rest is puerile verbal vomit as per osho & friendz

    From amren of tscandal birth hapa shytt spawn and joo “wedlock” (divorce imminent) he belongs at prison for verbal terrorism- Transcendentalist Emerson oversoul Paramatman usa is vision of the learned – JewnitedStAtes deserves extinction

    Verbal terrorist of JewnitedStAtes deserve prison and chemical castration . Damn these insectoid joo robotomales

    Not all comments posted – where is free speech at jewnited states internet?
    Extinct jewmerica good for mother cow
    Long live kulfi

  13. https://www.livemint.com/opinion/online-views/a-theory-on-what-possibly-saves-the-rich-from-the-poor-11604245254939.html

    A theory on what possibly saves the rich from the poor

    ” Resources are finite, life is hard, and equals are rivals. This could be one of the reasons why in the 2019 general elections, the poor across north India were found to have largely voted for Narendra Modi, or his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). Electoral analysts explain that this was because of Modi’s charm and sweeping “nationalism”. I don’t find these explanations convincing. It is unusual for upper classes and the poor to have identical views on almost anything except the two big fables of divinity and nationhood; so I feel there must have been a powerful selfish reason why the poor voted for a party that also seems the beloved of billionaires and millionaires. It could be possible that a poor majority had the impression that a minority group that is just as poor, or poorer, being subdued by nationalistic thugs emboldened by the BJP’s rise could reduce competition for jobs.

    Violence against migrants and Muslims in India is often couched in a cultural war, but there is enough to suggest that it is about jobs and sharing meagre resources, too.

    The rich, on the other hand, create resources. They are the employers of the poor. Yes, there are many aspects of their lives that are visually repulsive to the thinking, philosophical poor, but their view of the rich also includes their reformative roles— conscientious teenaged girls trying to teach the children of their maids and drivers; refined do-gooders trying to make lives better. I have met a man who started a free library in his Mumbai house for poor aspirants to the civil services; and an old lawyer who fought cases without charging a fee; and several doctors who treated the poor for free. These too are the optics of Indian life that the poor see every day. As a cultural bloc, the rich might seem villainous to an unknowable number of the poor, but compared to their own neighbours and equals, and even husbands and in-laws, the rich also appear more decent, nobler, more generous, nicer and safer to them.”

  14. I am getting rather cheesed off by the use of haleem as a codeword for Muslims. Haleem is fine and we are having (chicken) haleem for dinner tonight as it is a superb winter food. If we are to have a food-based name it should be beef biryani (the king of foods) or gosht ki nihari which are rather more apropos.

    1. It is specifically for S Asian Muslims. Disproportionate number of radical ones live in the NW.
      S Asian Hindus are Kidchidis or Handwos.
      Sikhs are paneers.
      Turkic Muslims are Kebabs.
      Levantine are falafels.
      Persian arw Bozbash

      1. Haleems are mostly Shias though.. because we only eat Haleem during Muharram, made by Shias.
        Nihari on the other hand is quintessentially S. Asian Muslim.

        1. is there vegetarian haleem like vegetarian biryani I can eat? i went to few Pak wedding and even rice had beef. I had to mostly eat nan, salad,and dal. I hear Pakistanis eat little paneer. Is this true?

          1. I have never heard of vegetarian haleem. Even the chicken haleem mentioned above sounds like blasphemy to me but its considered the healthier option. I have never eaten or seen vegetable biryani either, although I have heard of it. For me the only vegetable a Biryani contains is potato.

            I don’t remember eating any paneer in Pakistan except maybe once or twice. Maybe Punjabis use it but we never did. In Canada, I see that Punjabi Indian cuisine contains lots of Paneer instead of meat. Not sure if the same is common on the Pakistani side, I would guess not.

            Beef is lavishly used in every dish in Pakistan.. especially in restaurants..and depending on geographical area, is slightly more popular than chicken or mutton. Vegetarian options are hard to find.. usually Chaney ki Daal is the only vegetarian option.. The salads in restuarants are a joke, usually consisting of lettuce and tomato and that’s it, maybe some onions and carrot.

          2. Vegetarian biryani exists but not vegetarian haleem. In our household we only tend to eat beef when having burgers from a particular place so only two or three times a year. Otherwise we stick to chicken, lamb and fish hence chicken haleem. My wife prefers to make chicken biryani as she keeps fairly busy with work and it’s quicker to make. Our local Pakistani takeaway does not serve beef dishes partly because they have a fair amount of Indian Hindu customers who don’t want the cross-contamination.

            Paneer isn’t particularly big in Pakistan but we like it a lot. Especially the manchurian paneer and chili paneer done by our local Gujarati vegetarian place.

          3. As a Gujarati, I can confidently say urban Gujaratis have the worst diets in all of S Asia. All carbs and fats and no proteins. When one is vegetarian, one needs to pay special attention to protein and eat a sufficient amount of legumes and dairy. Urban Gujaratis are terrible about this and eat a sweet, salty carb filled diet of nonsense.

            The young generation is better of course. But the middle aged, prime example Amit Shah, are saddled with all of the metabolic syndrome comorbidities. In the nyc area alone, it is sadly not uncommon to see Gujaratis on dialysis at a young age from uncontrolled hypertension and type 2 diabetes. Just terrible diets and lack of physical exercise among the urban Guajratis of the equivalent age group of America’s boomer generation.

          4. Neither does Veg biryani exist nor does Veg haleem. What next ? Veg Paya

            All this abominations needs to be banned.

    2. I agree with Ali.

      Without Haleem , i dont know how would i watch Indo-Pak matches at my Pakistani friends place. Keeps the calm.

      On Nihari though, i disagree with Ali, its too good a dish to be used by Pakistani folks alone. Can’t give that one. Beef Biryani, Pakistani can have.

  15. Regarding the lack of veg options in Pakistan. Can anyone explain why Pashtuns like to call Punjabis daal-khors, despite Pakistan’s low consumption of daal ?

    Per capita pulse consumption in Pakistan (1.5) is less than 1/10th that of India (22.7), and is on par with other Islamic countries like Turkey (also 1.5). I checked the menus for some top restaurants in Lahore, and there was usually just one veg option, a kind of chana daal.

    Is this just an atavism from pre-Pakistan days of looking at people beyond the Indus ?

    1. Possibly due to pre-partition biases. Only Afghan nationalists use this term ‘daal khor’ for Punjabis, perhaps because they think Punjabis = Indians who don’t eat meat. Meat consumption in Pakistan is much higher per capita than meat consumption in Afghanistan. The same with dairy consumption. Although this could be due to poverty as meat is more expensive. Daal is also not common in Persian or Afghan cuisine but it is more common in Indian cuisines.

  16. Afghan call Pak Punjabi dal khors, and in place Pk punjabis call N-Indians baniyas, and N-Indians think S-Indians are Idli-Sambar.

    The whole ‘weak-vegetarian’ opponent

    1. yeah it’s a trend. It shocks Indians way more than Whites, when they see my transformation,knowing I’m vegetarian. S Asians think meat is magical or something. What they don’t realize is the key is resistance training and sufficient protein. Meat is a good way to get protein but there are other ways.

      My dad worked in a factory in the 80s in Haryana outside of N Delhi. He said big strong men from nearby villages all cameby to work at night after farmwork. Some were vegetarian and some weren’t. On appearance alone no one could tell. But the key was the vegetarians still had a high protein diet from heavy dose of dairy and legumes.

      Banias have awful diets. Amit Shah once again.

      1. S Asians think meat is magical or something.
        I notice this, but on the flipside some westerners think a vegetarian diet is magically healthy.

        They should meet some of my relatives.

        1. yeah people need education on micros, macros, caloric balance, the importance of maximizing lean mass through barbell training, and the importance of keeping at least decent cardio fitness. The amount of misinformation is nuts.

          People can be healthy on numerous diets. They just have to stay in caloric balance, get enough protein, and get their vitamins/minerals.

      2. It’s much harder to hit proper macros on a vegetarian diet, compared to a carnivorous one.

        Lentils are good but have an even higher amount of carbs than protein, and paneer has higher amount of fat than protein. So eating a protein heavy vegetarian diet comes with all the additional stuff that can throw the macros out of whack. It’s fine on a bulk but it becomes notoriously hard to maintain protein levels on a cut when vegetarian.

        Although I am not sure if one really needs 1gram of protein per lbs of bodywieght to build muscle, but high protein diet, low fat and no carb diet, is very very important if you wanna cut below 10% bodyfat and remain there.

        There are definitely vegetarian bodybuilders & olympic lifters who remain in peak shape, (youtube Clarence Kennedy) but for normal regular guys who aren’t in the gym 5 hours a day, it seems extremly hard. Only way I can think of is to drink lots of whey protein to compensate for lack of meat.

        1. I mean I did it. There are a lot of options. Just look into yet. Yes bulk is easier. But even a cut isn’t that hard.
          I hit all my macros just fine. I mean I am not amazing or anything. My best lifts are a 440 deadlift, 345 competition squat (no BS-hip crease below knee crease), and a 250 pause bench (my worst lift) weighing 170lbs at around 5’9. I’m not gifted, have a small frame, and don’t really watch my diet, just use common sense.

          also, recent literature shows 1.6g per kilo per natty lifters. Amount of protein needed was overestimated in the past out of ignorance and to push supplements. Frankly, that’s not hard to get on a vegetarian diet at all.
          Also foods like setan and tofu and low fat greek yogurt are great macro wise. And the estrogenic effect of tofu is overrated. Meat just isn’t necessary for a lot of people.

          https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

          Good summary with paper cited

        2. clarence is the man. most people also think he is on gear which is why he doesn’t compete as much anymore. of course, most oly lifters are on gear but maybe he doesn’t want to cycle off or takes more obvious stuff? who knows.

          but yeah again 1.6g per kg is the standard per most uptodate research. That’s not hard to get at all from a macros perspective.
          And there is no health benefit to being leaner then 12-16% range. And that is super easy to maintain regardless of diet. I sit around there just on intuitive eating. So even, if your argument holds that cutting is difficult on a vegetarian diet, which frankly I don’t think is, it doesn’t really matter.

          The confounder is the diet most urban Indian vegetarians eat not the fact that they are vegetarian in and of itself. The diet is just trash in general. There is just a total lack of enough protein. I should track and upload a day of my eating on here. It’s really not that hard to hit macros.

          Sadly don’t have pic of the 440. But 430 here. Nothing special in PL world of course but was happy to it.

          https://imgur.com/a/pNSMMc0

          http://imgur.com/a/iK5WUIN

          The links didn’t post right before.

          https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

          Links to primary literature in there but good lay summary of 1.6g/kg per metanalysis

          1. 0.8g/lbs seems about right for the recommended protein intake, and even anecdotally I have not seen dip in performance at 0.8g/lbs, but anything below 0.7 and I do experience that soreness lasts longer.

            However even 0.8g/lbs is very hard without whey protein. Every vegetarian meal plan I have seen includes copious amounts of whey. The macros are hard to balance, lentils/beans have a 3:1 carb/protein ratio. Paneer has 3:1 fat/protein ratio. Milk has 3:3:2 fat/carb/protein ration.. Unless the person is eating a lot of eggs or drinking whey, their carbs/fat are always going to be extremely high, and this is not easy especially for people who weigh more. At 200lbs, I will need 160 grams of protein and that means eating 4 kilos of of beans every day, which is extremely hard if not nigh impossible. That’s also 3,500 calories which will be notoriously hard to burn off unless the person works manual labor as daytime job. Just adding a little meat to the diet pretty much eliminates this problem.

            It’s possible to build a good physique at even 0.5grams of protein per lbs of BW, beginner gains come to everyone. But if someone wants to advance and take it to the next level, they need protein supplements if not meat.

        3. honestly you need to do your research and find a better vegetarian meal planner. I won’t do that for you. Just look into it.

          also again, who cares if there is whey in the diet. Like why does that matter. Next level? What are you even talking about? enough elite strength athletes are at that level. Just admit you like meat and move on. And what percent pf people even get pass noobie gains in general meat eating population? few.

          what percent of people need to get leaner than 12-16%, almost no one. It is no healthier to go even lower than that, unless you want to compete in a bodybuilding beauty pageant

          Most fighters even aren’t that lean. look at khabib. He looks about 13-14%. Nothing crazy

        4. just a hint but look into tofu, tempeh, non fat greek yogurt, seitan

          Even at .7 I have no dip personally. But below that I do. And for me that’s what 120g a day. that’s not that hard at all.

          Mind you I have 6.25 inch wrists and 8 inch ankles. I have a pretty darn small frame. Not genetically predisposed to size at all.

          1. “just a hint but look into tofu, tempeh, non fat greek yogurt, seitan”

            Are these good options for a farmer working on a meagre pay in India?

        5. at 200lbs relatively lean your basal rate should put you near 3000. burning 500 ish in a say extra isn’t too hard man if you do a normal amount of cardio

          I lose weight even if I do nothing if I eat under 2500 and you weigh 30lbs more

    2. It’s also funny seeing Punjabis the most vegetarian and Bengalis the least and that going against all the conventional meat eating machismo bullshit.

      1. Vegetarian with a diet rich in dairy. Dairy is an important source which is providing the protein, although with more fat as well.

  17. When people claim to build body on vegetarian diet, they are generally loaded on Whey protein. As pointed by Qureishi its extremely difficult to build muscle on vegetarian diet without supplements.

    Hindus should collectively move away from a strict vegetarian diet. (many are moving away thankfully) Out texts are full of references to eating meat and wild meats.

    I have read Charkha Samhita (translation). It has use of goat, sheep, tortise, hare, eggs, fish, deer and many other wild meats. Rig Veda is abound with animal sacrifice.

    I found the current leaders on right wing extremely squeamish on this. Compare it what Savarkar and Vivekananda advocated about meat eating:

    Savarkar:

    IN 1906, in a lodging house for Indian students in Highgate, a pleasant area of north London, a young lawyer called Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi dropped in on a law student called Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, who happened to be frying prawns at the time. Savarkar offered Gandhi some of his meal; Gandhi, a vegetarian, refused. Savarkar allegedly retorted that only a fool would attempt to resist the British without being fortified by animal protein.
    Ref: https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2014/12/17/the-man-who-thought-gandhi-a-sissy

    Vivekananda:

    About vegetarian diet I have to say this – first, my Master was a vegetarian; but if he was given meat offered to the Goddess, he used to hold it up to his head. The taking of life is undoubtedly sinful; but so long as vegetable food is not made suitable to the human system through progress in chemistry, there is no other alternative but meat-eating.
    Ref: http://www.vivekananda.net/ByTopic/MeatEating.html

    IMO: If you are a vegetarian, one should load up on eggs and paneer. Make sure your kids grow up eating meat.

    1. This is a myth. Frankly, you can get enough protein without meat. And let’ say for arguments sake you need whey. Why would that be so bad?
      Whey isn’t poisonous. And it spares sentient beings relative suffering. Yes factory farms suck for cows. But keeping a cow as a wet nurse essentially like more ethical farmers do isn’t as barbaric as killing of as many animals as we do for meat.
      Eating meat to survive is one thing. But the modern world had enough bounty in the West to do without. Also, there are environmental reasons but I won’t get into that.

      One can be strong and vegetarian. But they have to eat right. Once you start doing so, it’s not hard anymore. Eating seems easier because it is more popular and people are used to it.
      Most people can do just as well without it.

      https://imgur.com/a/iGlZPaX

      1. Not sure what is myth in what I have written above. How do we expect scores of people who cant afford “Whey supplement” to get protein?

        This is the main reason why Savarkar and Vivekananda were pragmatic about it. Our texts are pragmatic about it. The main demand of our texts is that we worship and pray to our gods before partaking of food.

        You can read Charaka Samhita here: https://archive.org/details/CharakaSamhitaTextWithEnglishTanslationP.V.Sharma
        The list of meats used in Charaka Samhita is exhaustive. We should not be sqeamish about this, but be pragmatic like our texts and leaders like Savarkar and Vivekananda.

        1. whey is a waste product of milk processing. zit should be dirt cheap but greedy supplement companies have conned the world.

          But I get your perspective for sure.

    2. I mean this is just false. One can easily bulk up one a vegetarian diet. Cutting is a bit harder, given it is just less obvious but once you get into the groove, it frankly isn’t that hard at all either.

      I gained muscle and strength without supplements on a vegetarian diet just fine. And heck I’m a medical resident and was premed and med school for the rest of it. I don’t get enough sleep for shit

      My links aren’t posting for whatever reason.

      1. You are ignoring that higher nutrition and protein in vegetarian diet comes at a higher cost. Compare the cost of protein from vegetarian sources and vegetarian sources. Not everyone can have high nutrition vegetarian diet.

        If you are making the debate about killing animals for protein, none of the Hindu texts are against it.

        You can read Charaka Samhitha here: https://archive.org/details/CharakaSamhitaTextWithEnglishTanslationP.V.Sharma

        As I mentioned earlier, neither are Bhagvat Gita, Rig Veda, Upanishads against meat consumption. All that the texts ask are pratice the right way of living and worships the gods.

        Personally I would follow the pragmatisms our sacred texts and leaders like Vivekananda and Veer Savarkar.

        1. Hinduism can be for it. I won’t debate that. I won’t stop poor people from eating what they can get and stay healthy. I am just saying for me in the West with so many options, I think it is just morally worse to kill sentient being to fuel my hedonism, when I can be perfectly healthy otherwise.

          If people want to eat meat, good for them. I don’t condone it, but I get it as a cultural norm.

          1. Animals are not sentient. They have no ability of being able to perceive subjectively.

            Lol what are you basing this on.

            Have you ever had a pet dog / cat ?

          2. “sen·tient
            /ˈsen(t)SH(ē)ənt/
            Learn to pronounce
            adjective
            able to perceive or feel things.
            “she had been instructed from birth in the equality of all sentient life forms””

            Animals have a nervous system with pain sensing fibers. This is non debateable. Animals are sentient.

            In dictionary definitions, sentience is defined as “able to experience feelings,” “responsive to or conscious of sense impressions,” and “capable of feeling things through physical senses.” Sentient beings experience wanted emotions like happiness, joy, and gratitude, and unwanted emotions in the form of pain,

            Lmfao if you really think animals cannot feel happy, sad, or in pain. Please educate yourself brother.

      2. You are ignoring that higher nutrition and protein in vegetarian diet comes at a higher cost. Compare the cost of protein from vegetarian sources and vegetarian sources. Not everyone can have high nutrition vegetarian diet.

        If you are making the debate about killing animals for protein, none of the Hindu texts are against it.

        You can read Charaka Samhitha here:
        https://archive.org/details/CharakaSamhitaTextWithEnglishTanslationP.V.Sharma

        As I mentioned earlier, neither are Bhagvat Gita, Rig Veda, Upanishads against meat consumption. All that the texts ask are pratice the right way of living and worships the gods.

        Personally I would follow the pragmatisms our sacred texts and leaders like Vivekananda and Veer Savarkar.

    3. http://imgur.com/a/iK5WUIN

      Here you go. I didn’t need to kill any animals for this nor did I rely on tons of whey.

      I’m 5’9 170 with a 440 DL, 345 squat (hip crease below knee crease IPF style depth), and 250 pause bench (worst lift). I don’t dedicate my life to this stuff with all the schooling I’ve gone through. And has been suboptimal in terms of sleep and even caloric intake overall at times and I think I’m doing decently. Yes in a powerlifting gym, I am nothing great at all. But most guys in commercial gyms, are a decent bit weaker and plenty of meat eaters there. One day, hopefully I can train more seriously and push it more.

      1. Lets take the example of labourer who slogs 10 hours a day in the fields of India. Would you rather have him eat:

        A: Carb rich, no meat diet. Has limited amount of dairy.

        B: Carb rich diet, limited dairy and some protein from meat sources

        I would go by what Vivekananda has to say on this:

        Rather let those belonging to the upper ten, who do not earn their livelihood by manual labour, not take meat; but the forcing of vegetarianism upon those who have to earn their bread by labouring day and night is one of the causes of the loss of our national freedom.

      2. Good for you man, I never concentrated on building up my squat or deadlift and I left doing them when my DL reached 315×1 and squat reached 275×2 (ATG). Im 6’1 and quite lanky, so my leverages are not optimized with SQ or DLs. But I did concentrate on Bench and OHP and I could do 255×5 at my peak early last year, and 185×2 OHP.

        I think strength only comes with strength training, I can’t hit these numbers as I havent trained for strength in almost 2 years now. However what I am specifically referring to is boydbuilding aesthetics, and being lean all year round, a high protein diet is essential for remaining lean, and when you do a comparison between vegetarian meal plan vs conventional, conventional is much more convenient.

        It’s not about me enjoying eating meat, nobody enjoys eating lean chicken breast.

        1. fair points. My bench has always been a struggle. Nice bench. I have mild scoliosis so it’s hard for me to stay tight in upper back. I need to learn to scapula retracted more optimally.

          Strength training is how I have exclusively trained. It’s just more fun for me. I also grew up bullied and weak. So trying to be “strong” was always a big deal to me. I have a small frame, so I can’t really get “big” without being a lard.I’ve tried and failed

        2. Honestly I am just happy whenever S Asians lift. Where I grew up, we had a reputation of being nerdy etc. So it is good to see that changing. Toronto sounds diff but not where I was.

          I know many are doing powerlifting now. Many stronger than me in just a couple years, and it honestly makes me overjoyed. We need to have good lifting culture.

          And first my links didnt upload. Now they did and all the info I want posted is up 3x.

    4. Every major national dietetic association has stated that a vegan diet is suitable for humans at all stages of the human life cycle, including infancy, adolescence, pregnant women, and athletes. There are many vegan athletes.

  18. https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/west-bengal-and-bangladesh-two-bengals-two-economies/cid/1796295

    “ Bangladesh has decided to follow the best practices of development without any political bias. This, then, brings us to the following question: is economic growth a necessary condition for social progress? The story of Bangladesh imparts some telling lessons.

    West Bengal, on the other hand, became a crucible for experimental adventurism in its development model and suffered at the hands of errant policymakers and myopic politicians. Consequently, Bengalis in this part of Bengal are still struggling to find what would change their lives for the better.”

    Bengali bhadraloks FTW

  19. I have gotten into cooking big time during the lockdown and I am enjoying all the food related conversation here.

    Questions for Pakistani folks.
    (@Ali , @Qureishi , anyone else who wants to chime in)

    1) What’s street food like in Pakistan?

    Do you guys have any of:
    – Pani puri
    – Chaat
    – Momos (cheap dumplings, basically)
    – Pav bhaji
    – Vada pav
    – Idli-dosa
    – Samosa
    – Sev puri, bhel puri, jhalmuri etc

    2) Paneer seem not common. Is paneer pakoda a popular street dish or is it more common to have meat pakoras of some kind?

    3) I assume these would be more popular in Karachi, if at all, than in other cities?

    1. Pani puri is called ‘Gol gappay’ in Pakistan, bhel puri, chaat papri, chana chaat etc used to be common street food maybe 20-30 years ago in Karachi (not sure about Punjab), you will probably not find it in KP. However I think nowadays, these have lost popularity in the street, except for maybe chana chaat which has also become rare. These days, usually people will eat bun kababs, fries, samosas, pakoreys, jalebis, chicken/beef paratha rolls, corn etc

      Dosas are not common at all, there maybe one or two places in Karachi that sell it, but probably other Pakistanis may not even have heard of it. Not sure about momons, or vada pav, sev puri, jhal muri etc.

      1. Thanks, man.

        Yeah, pani puri/gol gappe/pukcha too many names for that thing.

        “…used to be common street food maybe 20-30 years ago in Karachi…”

        Do you think there’s any particular reason they have lost popularity or just general market cycles?
        As in people becoming health conscious, prosperity leading to preference for meat snacks, Mohajirs getting Punjabified etc.

        Some day I want to go and try out the (non-beef) street food in KPK. Seen some videos. The meat dishes look pretty delicious.

    2. Vegetarian street food is pretty much non-existent. Bun kebab and challi (masala sweet corn) are the two most popular street food items in Lahore. Karachi has a much more developed street food scene. Lahoris take their food seriously (eating out is about the only social activity) and therefore need tables and seating to partake properly.

  20. GERMAN authorities intend to remove the notion of race from the constitution.

    Angela Merkel’s government has previously concluded that there are no different human races.

    Recently, the music of German composer Ludwig van Beethoven was criticized for supporting “the rule of white men and the suppression of women, blacks and the LGBT community.”

  21. We are in the middle of linguistic discussion, but we will make a short detour to genetics to release some exclusives for brown eyes only.

    ********************************************************************************
    STOP THE PRESS – STOP REDDIT – STOP GXNP – STOP WAFFLES XERXIE
    *********************************************************************************

    There are so many things overtaking each other to be presented. I will present some of them briefly in bullet points. I expect that many pundits will be surprised:

    • Yamnaya R1b people were purely Turan people – black hair, round heads, short, chubby, dark mongoloids
    • Two major R1b intrusions in Europe, 4200 and 2800BC
    • I2 Vinca men (Dinarides) were 1.80m tall and white, first their blue eyes were registered in Spain in 7500BC
    • I2 Vinca women ((*) presented bellow with a covid mask) had jewellery, make-up and followed fashion
    • Autosomal genetics – every Scott, French, Spanish, etc, has at least 50% of the oldest European genetics, East Europeans 70%, Sardinia 90%
    • R1b conducted genocide upon Vinca’s men and children and took their women
    • It took 1000 years of ‘whitening’ to create west European Atlantic race which also mixed with Scandinavian I1 to make future Germans, English, etc.
    • 8500 BC – recorded first meeting between I2a and R1a
    • R1a, who were more peace-minded northern cousins of R1b, came to Europe in 3500 BC mixed with I2 to create Slavics (i.e. Serbs)
    • Amalgamation of I2 and R1a took thousands of years between Germany and Ural. However, sometimes it can be noticed phenotype differences between I2 dominant and R1a dominant wings, where east (now Russian) wing often shows old homeland genetic characteristics. For e.g. the meeting of two presidents:

    http://interkomitet.com/main/vladimir-putin-met-with-aleksandar-vucic/

    • In Serbian Tripolye (‘three field’) evolved Aryan culture. From there moved Aryans, Etruscans to Italy, Proto-Illyrians and Proto-Thracians to Balkan, Hittites, Hyksos in Egypt, Medes in Iran.
    • Zoroastrianism originated in Vedas
    • R1a’s original language was some Turkmenian language, it WAS NOT so-called ‘Indo-European’ (**)
    • After meeting I2 Vincans, R1a adopted their Serbian language and culture
    • I2 genetics is 35000 years old. Is it obvious that the term ‘(Proto)Indo-European’ is meaningless and should be replaced with ‘Serbian’ language which had been developed in this long period? Or, someone thinks that ‘Indo-European’ language was created outside of this 35000 years window?
    • R1a+R1b are present in high percentages (30-60%) among Tajik, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Altaics, Uyghurs – they did not go to Europe, did not mix much with I2 and preserved their original language. R1a gene was also found among Vandals and in Libyan mountains where Vandals fought Romans
    • R1b – “A back migration from Asia to Africa took place around 15,000 years ago, with a group of R1b1 people moving to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1 was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is probably where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast. Egyptian pharaohs Tutankhamun, Akhenaten and Amenhotep III carried R1b.”

    (**) Future Greeks, who came from Middle East and Egypt also haven’t spoken so-called ‘Indo-European’ language but after meeting indigenous Serbs in today’s Greece, they learnt to speak only with their mouth instruments without using their throats what is typical for Arabs and Middle Easterners. Now Greeks speak ‘IE language’.

    (*) I2a woman presented with anti-covid ‘a la burqa’ style mask:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Da4Ax6dqM&list=LL7iJ7uay3o-YVZVA_wB9Q4A&index=212

    ******************************************************************
    RELEASE THE PRESS – CONTINUE WITH WAFFLES
    ******************************************************************

  22. Any thoughts on intermittent fasting ? I have been doing it for 1 and half year now .
    I don’t do much exercise – but manage to maintain a comparatively healthy weight since I started it.
    I have found it helpful physiologically as I don’t have to do portion controls for the 2 meals i have and can indulge in some sweets every once a week or so & have managed to loose 3-4 kgs and easy to maintain my current weight around 71kg for 5.8 ft.
    I eat meat but not too much – like once a fortnight though eat loads of Paneer n eggs.

    Having said that i really ought to exercise – Warlock n Qureshi have inspired me a bit.

    1. You can do it! Find a good strength coach is the key. Read “starting strength” by Mark Rippetoe as a good place to begin.

      Intermittent fasting is an eating schedule. If your goal is weight loss and you manage to eat fewer calories on it, then good. If you can keep calories the same, you can have 5 meals a day if you want.

      Yes eating schedule will cause a minor diff in calories burned in metabolism but its tiny. Main thing by far is total calorie intake and how much is burned.

      Nutrition is about keeping protein high, calories reasonable, and getting all micronutrients.

    2. I have been following this:
      – 36 hour fast on Thursdays
      – One meal a day on rest of the days (fish, eggs, yogurt, rice, chapatis).

      Has been very helpful to maintain body weight. I also do body weight exercises, kettlebell and Gada (Indian mace) swings. I need to do lifts.

  23. I encourage everyone here to train. I started as a skinny bullied kid. I have mild scoliosis and small joints. My dad was explosive an athletic so maybe some genes there and probably hormones are ok, just given my voice depth etc but overally my strucutre is mediocre for lifting with relatively long femurs and arms.

    If I can do it, so can all of you. And many of you can do better than me.

  24. I personally prefer OMAD (One meal a day).. but not sure it can be done on a vegetarian diet. Intermittent fasting is good to maintain or cut weight. I almost never eat breakfast, so basically I am always doing intermittent fasting automatically.

    1. Have you followed the WhatIHaveLearned Youtube channel ?
      I really like the way that dude makes his videos – crisp voiceover and editing

      1. Good channels are

        Johnnie Candito
        Alan Thrall
        Omar Isuf
        Scooby1961
        Scottherman
        Strongerbyscience
        Athleanx
        Alphadestiny
        Jeffnipard

        Strengths and weaknesses of each but generally good info.

    2. good intuition

      very hard on a vegetarian diet because you need a big volume of food that’s full of water and fiber compared to meats. You get full faster. So you need to split it more. You can do it but you need an iron stomach

  25. Let’s see – I will plan some moderate exercise today itself.

    Yeah – one of the major reasons I stuck with Intermittent fasting is psychological not physiological. Especially when I used to have breakfast in my office canteen – the options were Wadas, Veg Puffs, Samosaa, Misal, And on slightly healthier – Upma Poha, Idli. So skipping BF clears up my calorie count for some flexibility during lunch – especially Rice which I love.

    Btw I get the protein argument – Paneer or even Whey appear to be great sources of protein. I am a bit skeptical of Soya and Tofu as I don’t have the taste buds for it as I do for paneer.
    These last 6-7 months I have been making paneer at home twice a week – 1-2 litre buffalo milks worth.

    But getting the protein with Milk ( for vegans) might be really tough I guess.

  26. Since the topic is Veg food…

    https://twitter.com/PramilaJayapal/status/1323482279029583872

    “Compulsive, night-before-election activity: make comfort food. That’s paneer tikka tonight, in honor of electing #KamalaHarris Veep tomorrow since she just said on Instagram that her favorite North Indian food is any kind of tikka! Let’s go, people! VOTE! ”

    SJW Brahmins and their supposed “Indian-ness” ????

    1. In a civilised society that would be considered cultural appropriation of north Indian cuisine by south Indians. How dare they?

  27. @Razib Do people from Barisal of Bangladesh have recent Portuguese ancestry(from pirates) or other ancestries that regular Bangladeshis don’t have? How much?

    1. @Dip
      All Bangladeshis(including Barisal) are homogeneous. Even the Turkic/Afghan genes from the middle ages are not detectable, so I doubt minor Portuguese (if exists) would have any impact at all. The European like component Bengalis score in various calculators is actually from steppe. Most significant recent contributor were Tibeto-Burmans, 12-15% on average.

  28. Be careful with “tofu”. Its effects are being assessed. There was this one case:


    A 60-year-old man was referred to the endocrinology clinic for evaluation of bilateral gynecomastia of 6 months’ duration. He reported erectile dysfunction and decreased libido.

    On further review of systems, he reported no changes in testicular size, no history of testicular trauma, no sexually transmitted diseases, no headaches, no visual changes, and no change in muscular mass or strength. Initial laboratory assessment showed estrone and estradiol concentrations to be 4-fold increased above the upper limit of the reference range. Subsequent findings from testicular ultrasonography; computed tomography of the chest, abdomen, and pelvis; and positron emission tomography were normal. Because of the normal findings from the imaging evaluation, the patient was interviewed again, and he described a daily intake of 3 quarts of soy milk.

    After he discontinued drinking soy milk, his breast tenderness resolved and his estradiol concentration slowly returned to normal.

    https://journals.aace.com/doi/10.4158/EP.14.4.415?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200pubmed

    1. Ppl always bring up this study. But it’s based off one guy drinking 0.75 gallons of soy milk (almost 3 litres) per day.

      pretty extreme level of consumption (12 servings a day), and also one guy so who knows how other ppl are impacted.

      Too many vegetables can also cause issues. Too much fish (due to mercury/ heavy metals) etc.

      1. Also the thing is that minor drops in test or rises in estrogen medically affect older men more.
        450 and 500 ng per DL (normal is 300-1000) in a young man will NOT show clinical differences. Roiders take supra physiologic doses to be in the thousands. Many who take TRT are in the 1000-1200 range and then yeah you see a diff.

        But an older man with a level of say 200 and goes to 150 is a bigger deal. Also this is a shit ton of soy.
        And finally, there is data to show beer is more estrogenic than soy….plenty of hormones pumped into meats in the West too and antibiotics, especially America.

        Another wild thing is average test levels of American men have fallen a decent bit since the 50s 60s and 70s. Yet data on US military recruits shows MORE lean muscle mass now. This is confounded by better food and strength training and steroids to a minor degree (post bootcamp guys get away with pinning but still a minority). nonetheless, it shows once again that minor fluctuations when young and in normal range aren’t so bad

  29. While the Austrian authorities are silent about the identity of the murdered attacker who carried out the terrorist attack in Vienna last night, the editor-in-chief of the Viennese magazine “Falter”, Florian Klenk, claims that it is a young Viennese of Albanian origin from FYR of Macedonia.

    “His name is Kurtin S, he was born in 2000 in Vienna, where he grew up. He is of Albanian origin, and his parents are from FYR of Macedonia and have nothing to do with Islamism,” this well-known Austrian investigative journalist wrote on Twitter.

    He stated that the young man, who killed four people and was killed by the police, was known to the Counter-Terrorism Service , because he was one of the 90 Austrian Islamists who tried to travel to Syria.

    In July, Klenk claims, he was prevented from trying to go to the battlefields in Syria.

    1. The new terrorist attacks that we faced in Vienna show that a completely different dimension of Islamist activities in Europe has started in relation to what was before.

      These are real ground actions, organized by military units that are terrorizing in the middle of a large urban center.

      What was in Bosnia during the 1990s or in Kosovo at the end of the 1990s is now entering Western Europe through a small door. These are new generations taking the form of what was in the Balkans ten or 20 years ago.

      It is only now that Europe is fully realizing that Serbs were Europe’s first defenders against Islamic radicalism.

  30. @warlock bhai / other Indian veg lifting bros do you have any good recipes ?

    Been making kesar shrikhand recently basically just subbing in 0% greek yogurt and splenda in the regular recipe

    It turns out quite good, and the protein to calorie ratio is insane.

    1. To me its so amusing how ‘Indian’ 2nd gen gujjus are. I think from all the Indian ethnicities , Gujjus are the most ‘Indian’- American.

      1. Don;t know about that , but i half expected gujjus to behave like sikhs ( ‘not-really-indian-but-punjabi’) considering the time you folks have been in the US.

        You give half the time to certain other Indian ethnicities, they start acting like WASPs. 😉

      1. subbing in 0% greek yogurt and splenda in the regular recipe

        Splenda is a low / no cal sweetener and also important to get 0 percent mf % yogurt. So most of your calories are from the Greek yogurt.

        0% Greek yogurt is 17g of protein / 100 calories
        Chicken breast is 18.6g of protein/ 100 calories

        (Other meat cuts are all worse than chicken breast)

        If you don’t want sweetener you can make a raita lol.

        1. Thank you. I didn’t know/remember what Splenda was. Should have read your comment more carefully.

  31. https://twitter.com/ZarrarKhuhro/status/1323303340688760838

    “I want the decline of the US to become irreversible and I want to see China’s rise cemented.”
    – Pakistani ultra-liberal

    Swines! line up in-front of US/UK and other western embassies groveling for visas in their thousands, while their leaders blow Americans for aid. Zero contribution, all sorts of trouble-making and compulsive hate for the west. Biting the hand that fed them. May China use NW South Asian asses well.

    I am not an American, will never be, I take its side because this country and her people have treated me extremely well.

    1. China has been on the world scene as a power for less than a decade. While US has been for last 7. Give it a decade or so, and soon there will be ‘Super power fatigue’ with China as well. Right now its all an honeymoon of the emerging power. Actually China should be worried that its honeymoon has been too short.

  32. It took almost 24 hours for this comment to be posted but after long deliberation it passed admin’s collegium scissors. However, it seems that its explosive content crashed the BP database and the site which was inaccessible via main web address. I soften some comment stances and included Chuck Norris for robustness. Well, pundits will need some time to bite and digest some of previous bullet points.
    We are in the middle of linguistic discussion, but we will make a short detour to genetics to release some exclusives for brown eyes only.

    **********************************************************
    STOP THE PRESS – STOP REDDIT – STOP GXNP – STOP WAFFLES XERXIE
    **********************************************************

    There are so many things overtaking each other to be presented. I will present some of them briefly in bullet points. I expect that many pundits will be surprised:
    • Yamnaya R1b people were purely Turan people – black hair, round heads, short, chubby, dark mongoloids
    • Two major R1b intrusions in Europe, 4200 and 2800BC
    • I2 Vinca men (Dinarides) were 1.80m tall and white, first blue eyes were registered in Spain in 7500BC
    • I2 Vinca women ((*) presented bellow with a covid mask) had jewellery, make-up and followed fashion
    • Autosomal genetics – every Scott, French, Spanish, etc, has at least 50% of the oldest European genetics, East Europeans 70%, Sardinia 90%, Chuck Norris 100%
    • R1b conducted genocide upon Vinca’s men and children and took their women
    • It took 1000 years of ‘whitening’ to create west European Atlantic race which also mixed with Scandinavian I1 to make future Germans, English, etc.
    • 8500 BC – recorded first meeting between I2a and R1a
    • R1a, who were more peace-minded northern cousins of R1b, came to Europe in 3500 BC mixed with I2 to create Slavics (i.e. Serbs)
    • Amalgamation of I2 and R1a took thousands of years between Germany and Ural. However, sometimes it can be noticed phenotype differences between I2 dominant and R1a dominant wings, where east (now Russian) wing often shows old homeland genetic characteristics. For e.g. the meeting of two presidents:

    http://interkomitet.com/main/vladimir-putin-met-with-aleksandar-vucic/

    • In Serbian Tripolye (‘three-fields’) evolved Aryan culture. From there moved Aryans, Etruscans to Italy, strengthened Proto-Illyrians and Proto-Thracians in Balkan, Hittites, Hyksos in Egypt, Medes in Iran.
    • Zoroastrianism originated in Vedas
    • R1a’s original language was some Turkmenian language, it WAS NOT so-called ‘Indo-European’ (**)
    • After meeting I2 Vincans, R1a adopted their Serbian language and culture
    • I2 genetics is 35000 years old. Is it obvious that the term ‘(Proto)Indo-European’ is meaningless and should be replaced with ‘Serbian’ language which had been developed in this long period? Or, someone thinks that ‘Indo-European’ language was created outside of this 35000 years window?
    • R1a+R1b are present in high percentages (30-60%) among Tajiks, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Altaics, Uyghurs – they did not go to Europe, did not mix much with I2 and preserved their original language. R1a gene was also found among Vandals and in Libyan mountains where Vandals fought Romans
    • R1b – “A back migration from Asia to Africa took place around 15,000 years ago, with a group of R1b1 people moving to Egypt, Sudan and spreading in different directions inside Africa to Rwanda, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Congo, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau. The hotspot is Cameroon. R1b1 was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. It is probably where the early R1b people first settled, then spread south and east along the coast. Egyptian pharaohs Tutankhamun, Akhenaten and Amenhotep III carried R1b.”

    (**) Future Greeks, who came from Middle East and Egypt also haven’t spoken so-called ‘Indo-European’ language but after meeting indigenous Serbs in today’s Greece, they learnt to speak only with their mouth instruments without using their throats what is typical for Arabs and Middle Easterners. Now Greeks speak ‘IE language’.

    (*) I2a woman presented with anti-covid ‘a la burqa’ style mask:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Da4Ax6dqM&list=LL7iJ7uay3o-YVZVA_wB9Q4A&index=212

    ****************************************
    RELEASE THE PRESS – CONTINUE WITH WAFFLES
    ****************************************

    1. According to the previous comment many things will need to be updated (for e.g. warlock in his ratio formula instead of steppe should put more specific – vincha). There will be more repercussions from this comment which we will address accordingly.

      In meantime, as earlier requested and by popular demand, some I2a lyrics from the above link (Google translated) for a lyrics’ lover, Hojislav:

      I love you

      Your steps, silent and distant
      they have already found peace somewhere long ago
      your hands were tender
      your eyes said it all

      Oh, I love you, my dear
      I love you like my life
      oh, I love you, like a bird’s wings
      I love you, I love you, I love you

      Ref.
      But I know you’ll never come again
      to my room while the city sleeps peacefully
      in me then secretly and mightily
      love will burn and I will be young again

      Do it somewhere alone
      pain in the soul hides
      and you carry your sorrow within you now
      or maybe you live a happy new life
      but still – I love you

      I love you, I’m looking for your face
      I love you, I love your smile
      oh, i love you, words don’t matter
      I love you, it’s true

      Oh, I love you because you were mine
      I love you, and yet I am alone
      oh, I love you, like a bird’s wings
      I love you, I love you, I love you

  33. https://wearyourvoicemag.com/hindutva-gets-sugarcoated-through-pop-culture-sensations-while-fascism-continues-its-rise/?_thumbnail_id=60648

    This thing does not stop.

    “Take yoga, for example. A typical American yoga studio is thoroughly exclusionary, an activity the white, rich, thin woman performs in $88 pants with “Namaste in Bed” emblazoned across the ass. She holds her down dog in a studio where “wellness smells” of Nag champa incense waft in swirling silver streams, whitewashed walls adorned with pictures of many-limbed goddesses as far as the third eye can see, to the inexplicable soundtrack of other white people singing “Hari Om” and Sanskrit bhajans to Hindu gods. During her savasana, she is transported in her mind to the banks of the Ganges, thinking of this “ancient” practice as she joins her palms for a final namaste at the end of class. Other than the blatant co-opting of Sanskrit culture by white people (a story for another time), the ubiquity of these fetishized Hindu symbols and objects of worship have the effect of equating Hinduism with Indianism writ large.

    Despite having several dire reasons to disengage with India—or at the very least, to censure Modi—American officials have kept tight-lipped. Senator Harris herself has offered no rebuke of Modi whatsoever, picking, once again, only the “fun and convenient” aspects of her own Hindu heritage to publicly acknowledge. This year, the Presidential election has seen the rise of “Brown-pandering” (appealing to the Indian diaspora for their votes, as they are being seen as a sizable voting bloc). But the absence of widespread critique of Indian-American politicians like Raja Krishnamoorti for sharing a stage with Modi and Trump, or of the Hindu American Foundation, not only leads to Hindutva philosophies entering the mainstream, but also betrays the U.S’ own hypocritical positions on Islamophobia and global imperialism.

    1. Question for folks in the US with Hindu-ish names:

      Have you noticed woke/clued-in people treating you differently because of this kind of narrative?

      (Not talking about generally well-adjusted white people or Haleems who’ve already made up their minds.)

      1. It will get there. Indian Americans are at the curious place of having sufficient economic power ( and envy) without the requisite cultural power ( unlike Jews , Cubans etc ).

        So a big bulls eye on their back. And it will just get bigger.

        1. Hehe.

          I have a friend from college. Punjabi Hindu guy. Bit of a sociopath with very low self-awareness. Will use whatever tactics to get his stuff done.

          Used to be pretty religious as well. Vegetarian and would talk about ‘energies’ and shit.

          He moved to the US for MBA a few years ago. I recently noticed that he’s put (He/him) beside his name on Linkedin. Pretty regularly shares links talking about empathy/diversity/micro-aggression and the likes.

          I find it very amusing.

      2. Controversial post, might be off at some places:

        No one cares about Hindus here. From what I have seen they are rightfully seen as benign. White Americans being a vocal people cannot stop themselves from discussing poverty in India with fake concern, the most common lines being ‘India is so full of contrast, I was there 3 years ago and saw the Taj Mahal and next to it were people living in such heartbreaking (if a woman is saying this she would usually put her hand on her left boob/heart) poverty’. In a church related group some people raise questions about some no-name Christian missionary priest in India and how Modi must have personally put him in jail.

        All these trashy articles are written by some champak Brahmin masturbating to the thought of being considered the Indian equivalent of white colonizers of the US. These people are so full of themselves, zero achievements and 200X vanity.

        To me, it is clear that Indian Americans (who are almost entirely upper caste) are concerned about money and money alone. I have seen them marry all around and they are considered a non-threatening, largely inconsequential minority group with nerdy-rich people. Indian women are in exceptionally high demand.

        Some more random thoughts:
        If given an opportunity Americans love to say things like, ‘ My relationship with Christ …., my faith ……, my church, my community …..’ American Christian religion is very different from Hinduism. In articulating things well and trying to be scholarly/clear Christians end up making use of made-up/ fake-sounding words. What could be done in a Bhajan with Harmonium becomes impossible to recreate. This makes me think that Christianity in the US will die much quicker than Hinduism in India.

        1. ” I have seen them marry all around and they are considered a non-threatening, largely inconsequential minority group with nerdy-rich people.”

          Thats’ what i meant it would eventually get there. IA are disproportionally wealthy, disproportionally representative in politics and disproportionally lean to one side. It doesn’t end good.

        2. “These people are so full of themselves, zero achievements and 200X vanity.” — @Bhimrao, who are “these” people here ?

          1. SJW Brahmins contributing to Washington Post, needlessly trying to shame the rest of Indians, and sucking up to Westerners to ‘fix’ India.

  34. Surprised to see fewer discussion on US elections in this thread than I expected.

    Wild speculative conjecture (most likely wrong, but what the hell). Mail-ins have facilitated the mobilization of votes of people who wouldn’t have bothered to move their ass and vote in a usual election year. The biggest Republican blunder, therefore was to ask their voters to vote in-person rather than encouraging them to use mail-ins, which means they lost out on the extra mobilization that the mail-ins could afford.

    Consider that the previous highest popular votes received by anyone was Obama’s 69.5 million in 2008, with 365 electoral votes. With fewer, Biden already has 71.5 million and that might increase (very contra a commentator’s asserton above that Biden will get fewer than Hillary). Trump has 68.2 million, which is bigger than any previous popular vote except Obama-2008, and – I don’t know the arithmetic here – who knows, Trump may overtake Obama-2008 too when all votes are counted.

    In other words, both parties mobilized their supporters quite a lot, but mail-ins allowed Democrats far more mobilization.

  35. It is not enough to be competent alone but also equally necessary to project an aura of competence. In this regards, the US electoral machinery not only seems to be incompetent but also is incompetent.

    The American electoral paraphernalia – from rolls to voting to counting to declaration – all are so amateurish that I don’t even understand how the sanctity (or at least its pretense) is maintained in the eyes of the public. The Indian electoral machinery is positively a century ahead – the constitutional protection to CEC, counting (or summing), paper trails, exit poll controls, observer criteria – everything is professionally done. Its time India starts sending observers to the US to check if the elections are “impartial and fair”. We must not shrug the brown man’s burden.

    1. Ugra, used your comment on my FB page and a school group. Thank You.

      The richest and most powerful country on earth — whether due to ineptitude, choice or some combination of both — has no ability to perform the simple task of counting votes in a minimally efficient or confidence-inspiring manner. As a result, the credibility of the voting process is severely impaired, and any residual authority the U.S. claims to “spread” democracy to lucky recipients of its benevolence around the world is close to obliterated.

      An Indian (ugra) comments:

      It is not enough to be competent alone but also equally necessary to project an aura of competence. In this regards, the US electoral machinery not only seems to be incompetent but also is incompetent.

      The American electoral paraphernalia – from rolls to voting to counting to declaration – all are so amateurish that I don’t even understand how the sanctity (or at least its pretense) is maintained in the eyes of the public. The Indian electoral machinery is positively a century ahead

      https://www.zerohedge.com/political/greenwald-americas-inability-count-votes-national-disgrace-and-dangerous

  36. So Haryana just introduced reservations for 75% of private(!) jobs in the state for the state population. Source.

    India’s supposed “federalism” is transforming into a paper tiger.

    1. Groups of OBC majority farmers as a collective in diff states are causing problems in general w/ this reservation BS. This for dalits. Not their land owning greedy people like them

      1. “Groups of OBC majority farmers as a collective in diff states are causing problems in general w/ this reservation BS. This for dalits. Not their land owning greedy people like them” —

        @thewarlock,
        (i) this 75% reservation in private sector is NOT a caste based reservation but rather a domicile based one. The 75% reservation in jobs upto 50,000 INR is for Haryana’s *Moolnivasis*.

        (ii) This reservation was actually a poll promise made by the current govt in Haryana so they are simply fulfilling it. It has nothing to do with OBCs at all

        (iii) Coming back to OBC, only a relatively small-moderate % of OBC castes are land owning, majority of them are castes with very low land holdings(several states have sub-categorozations like EBC(E = Extremely) /MBC(Most Backward) ) who definitely need government help.

    2. This applies to jobs under 50k only. The drafters of the bill (IAS officers mostly from outside the state) obviously made sure to take care of their white collar brethrens.

      Dumb idea nonetheless.

    1. wtf is wrong is with these Indian Americans?

      Indian Americans (and their ancestors) are not an oppressed people, not in the US and definitely not in India. They have no skin in this oppression olympics game, Lefties will dump them at first opportunity because they love Islam more.

      First it were the Indian Muslims, then the Brahmins and now this lady is a Singh! For SJW Brahmins my theory is that they want to feel like gora-people, the urge to get some validation/admiration is strong.

      btw why do SJWs shout so much? The police man was just calmly standing there doing his job!

  37. Today was Karwachauth, a festival I find very sweet. I am listing the traditional annual festivals celebrated by my family from Awadh-Bundelkhand border i.e. Yadav-istan:
    1) Sakat
    2) Sankranti
    3) Vasant Panchami
    4) Magha Purnima
    5) Shivratri
    6) Holi + related
    7) Spring Navratri
    8) Ram Navmi
    9) Hanuman Jayanti
    10) Hindu New Year
    11) Akshaya Tritiya
    12) Buddha Purnima
    13) Vata Savitri
    14) Nirjala Ekadasi
    15) Guru Poornima
    16) Teej
    17) Nag panchami
    18) Raksha Bandhan
    19) Ganesh Chaturthi
    20) Anant Chaturdashi
    21) Vishwakarma Puja (in factories/workshops)
    22) Navratri
    23) Dussehra
    24) Karwa Chauth
    25) Dhanteras
    26) Diwali
    27) Govardhan Puja
    28) Chatth (not done in my place)
    In addition to this are the Mondays of Saavan month for Shiva ji, Tuesdays of Jeth month for Hanuman ji. Every summer someone would do a Gaytri Parivar type yajna and every winter a full fledged Durga ji yajna. Then there are smaller flexible ones like Vaibhav Lakshmi (usually Baniya families), Poornimas (full moons) are for Satya-Narayan puja and Amavasyas I forgot for whom. Another family puja in vogue is Rudrabhishekam. Community pujas are for Navratri and Ramacharitmanas paath and then the grandest of them all are the Srimad Bhagvatam paaths. Plus my family has been to regional GRAND festivals like Puri for rath yatra, Pandharpur, Kanwaryatra to Jharkhand, Kumbhs for I don’t know what, shaktipeeths/jyotirlings to attend some specific puja/aarati and so on.
    My cousins/siblings in India are also celebrating these, we will have to figure out how the to pass our colorful propaganda to the next generation which will be even more westernized and gray.

    1. * missed perhaps the most important one (18.1) Janmasthami. Also Navratris are 9 days long each, twice a year.

  38. “3 illegal Bangladeshi immigrants arrested in Mumbai.

    Police also arrested some agents in this case & seized:
    155 Aadhaar cards
    34 Passports
    28 PAN cards
    8 Ration cards

    And, letter heads of 2 MLAs of Owasi’s AIMIM party also seized.

    Now, 2 AIMIM MLAs are under probe.”

    Halal Haleem Owaisi

  39. Robert McDowell: The Key Role of Serbs in World War II

    Robert Harbold McDowell was an American university professor of anthropology and historian who served during World War II as an analyst and informant for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the postwar CIA.

    In charge of strategic analysis of the Balkans, Southeast Europe and the Middle East, where he grew up as the son of an American missionary, McDowell spent several months as the last American liaison officer with General Draža Mihailović in the fall of 1944. Due to his uncompromising attitude that General Mihailović the only effective bearer of resistance to Hitler and his servants in Yugoslavia, upon his return from that mission he was removed from the post of head of the Department for Southeast Europe.

    Manuscript of his analysis of events in the Balkans, under the working title The Key Role in Southeastern Europe During World War Two of the Serbs and their Commander General Draza Mihailovich Despite their Abandonment by Churchill and Roosevelt, and their significance for the collapse of Hitler and future American foreign policy, succeeded is to end up just retired, but its publication was banned by the CIA in the early 1970s. Shortly afterwards, in 1980, Robert McDowell, an American patriot and friend of the Serbs, died.

    **************

    MT – Churchill and Roosevelt supported the communist line and betrayed the regular royal army even though the king was in exile in London. The royal army rescued 500 American pilots who were shot down by the Germans over Serbia. The C&R were guided by geopolitical interests, believing that it would have more influence on the communist than on the democratic government. The consequences of that decision are still being felt today.

  40. What is up with the usage of South Asian American nowadays as opposed to simply Indian American, or if the larger is to be used, why not Asian American? It is uncalled for, especially in the context that her Indian parent is Tamil. If they had been from an ethnic group that’s shared between India and Pakistan like Punjabi or Bengali, I could still sort of see it. Otherwise this moniker has no meaning.

    Indian Americans are overwhelmingly Hindus and Hindutvadi on that in outlook as it pertains to des. South Asian Muslims in the US are fairly Islamist as well compared to the average Indian Muslim in India definitely. So why the grouping?

    It’s just setting up for the eventual dramatized schism that will happen as the AOC/ Omar type Islamist/lefties try to project more pounds of flesh for themselves from the Democrats. Indians will have to exit just like they’ve done in the UK from Labor.

    Also the country’s media is still so white centric and talking of Latinos, when Miami Cubans are also very politically different and have been so from a Mexican in California. Same issue. People from different national origins have different national baggage they bring to the US. You cannot be grouping those together just because they “look the same” to you.

    I think the covid response is what kept the Indian exodus towards Trump from materializing. Local healthcare and economy ultimately matters more than being lobbyists for India at the end of the day. Indians have the ability and delivered Virginia to the Dems. I’m not discounting that Muslims don’t have the same and delivered Michigan for Dems. But the Dems need to be very careful with the leftist Islamist faction. These sad racists are riding on the coattails of Black America which is the ONLY constituency that America has a historical reason to cater to.

    I am glad blacks powered the Dems to this victory overall. Islamists need to sit in the back, but I know they won’t.

  41. Interesting trend from the Edison Exit polls that leftists are ignoring completely. Compared to 2016, Trump lost support amongst white males, but gained support with white women and minorities.

    This doesn’t square with their dogma, so they won’t post anything thanking white men for delivering swing states, while continuing to believe monolithic minorities are their eternal votebank.

    1. That’s how the leftist always portray the majority group both in India and in the US. They don’t realize that in dividing up the whites by age, gender, education level etc but the minorities treated as one bloc (until forced to eat dirt like Miami Cubans have shown), they are in themselves making their analysis be way more white-centric.

      So only whites are allowed to have diversity of opinion based on age, income, education, etc, but rest are just dara-hua-insert-community-name that are so subsumed in fear of white racism that they eat humble pie on all their other issues and vote purely as minority bloc to leftist.

      In India also they divide Hindus by care of all levels of minutia but Muslims and Christians and Sikhs are all just one group to them.

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