The Barua Buddhists of Bengal are often said to be indigenous and continuous practitioners of the Buddhist religion among ethnic Bengalis. That is, they descend from the Buddhist communities of Bengali that flourished during the Pala period, and went into decline during the Muslim period, to disappear on the whole. The claim here is to indigenous status.
The Rohingya, in contrast, often make assertions that they are deeply rooted in Arakan. And, they disavow identification as Bengalis. Their language is clearly closely related to that of Chittagong, and it is not usually written in the Bengali alphabet.
Though I am open to being disproven, over the years in my research on the “Barua”, it seems that in the vast majority of cases these “Bengali Buddhists” descend from Tibeto-Burman people who adopted the Bengali language (or a Bengali-related dialect) and settled in and around Bengalis. They are concentrated in the far Southeast of Bangladesh, and often the boundary between themselves as the Theravada Buddhist Chakma, who retain tribal identity but now mostly speak Bengali, is fluid. The Barua are now Theravada Buddhists, which is the tradition of Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia, and not ancient Bengal.
So basically what I’m saying is this: Buddhist tribal people from the east have assimilated into a Bengali identity, and claimed indigeneity through asserting affiliation with the small Barua ethno-religious group. Meanwhile, in Arakan, peasants who migrated over the last few hundred years from southeast Bengal, have rejected assimilation into the Bengali identity, unified around the standard high culture dialect, and created something distinct.
Does Bangladesh have neo-Buddhist like Dalit Buddhist or all of them are similar to N E Buddhist.
all NE buddhist
like i said, they are theravada
i suspect that a lot of the ‘barua’ come from a mixing of bengali hindus with tribal buddhists. the most asian looking bengali i’ve ever met (totally asian looking) was a hindu woman from chittagong.
One of the interesting things is when Bengali high culture during the Sultanate period was muslim, its underlying Hindu subculture just diffused to surrounding areas like Orissa (Chaitanya) , Assam and Tripura (Sankar Dev).
Also any ideas on why Hindu subculture didn’t expand to rest of North East outside Assam, Tripura to supplant Buddhism and other Tribal religions of North East. Ethnicity doesn’t seem to be a factor considering Assamese, Maities etc are also Tibeto Burman.
“i suspect that a lot of the ‘barua’ come from a mixing of bengali hindus with tribal buddhists.”
It is eminently plausible. They have traits in-between Bengalis and tribals, after all.
These Baruas look tribal shifted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT9nbyqXMcs
In contrast, These Baruas look quite Bengali shifted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkzOdyo8vfY
Regular Chittagong Bengalis look just like the rest of Bangladeshis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCf_6chuELk
I postulate Baruas would have lots of tribal haplogroups alongside much higher east Asian ancestry. Could their Bengali Hindu ancestors be of Bhadralok type? as they are generally educated and belong to the upper-middle social class in Chittagong.
it’s probably just time. tribal religions have purchase when ppl think conversion to high culture = assimilation. this is literally what happened with the tai ahom.
christianity (or islam in other areas) may serve as a way to prevent assimilation but access high culture.
Wikipedia suggests that Bengali Buddhists are distinct from the Baruha.
And that they have continuity from early Buddhist Era.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_Buddhists
yes. that’s the point of my post. did you read it?
ah ok I read quickly actually misunderstood.
For some reason the I thought the suggestion was that there was no continuity to buddhism in bengal and it was reintroduced by migrants from burma.
For some reason the I thought the suggestion was that there was no continuity to buddhism in bengal and it was reintroduced by migrants from burma.
yes. i am suggesting that. you do understand Wikipedia has a lot of bullshit, right?
Around 1995-2003 there used to be about 15 Bangladeshi families that used to attend the NYC Buddhist Vihara/Temple
They looked very Sri Lankan, dark, short (5′ 5″ or so). Didnt see any very obvious East/SE asian features. Didnt think they were white collar types.
There was one I used to chat with (limited bcos language issues). He had a fruit cart on Wall Street/William Street intersection
http://nybv.us/nybv/index.php
Looks like they have their own temple.
Looks are also different (in general) from those who attended the Sri Lanka temple in mid to late 90.
These devotees look more Indian and I would not mistake them for Sri Lankans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N845tdLo0FU
NY Staten Island Vihara procession.
No confusing this lot with the NY Bangladeshi Vihara crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-lTMGLfaOE
I’ve posted this before, but the only Bengali Barua result from Chittagong I’ve come across on 23andme demonstrated 75.5% south asian to 24.5% East Asian (compared to average <1-2% East Asian for Muslim Bangladeshis).
Interestingly J-M241 and M35a haplogroups, both of which are non TB.
So clearly a decent proportion of TB ancestry but could fit with what you're suggesting about Bengali Hindu groups mixing with TB tribal groups given the y-dna haplogroup.
However, apart from point that Baruas are theravada by background, why could these Bengali ancestors not have been a core of Bengali Buddhists that mixed with TB groups instead of Hindu?
I appreciate that this is n=1, but with the haplogroup profiles and that only a quarter of ancestry composition is East Asian, couldn't this particular example legitimately claim that this is less an example of tribal groups assuming Bengali identity, but instead a core Bengali group mixing with TB groups ie the ethnogenesis of Bangladeshi Muslims but on steroids?
Only Baruas can decipher their origin, providing more samples. They are clearly an endogamous community, however, their genetic scores might’ve not stabilized yet? There is a possibility of Barua-Chakma intermarriages given both groups are Theravada and lives nearby.
Yes, as always need more data and samples to understand the genetic variance.
Have you seen any Chakma results?
No. I speculate Chakmas will be 30-35% Bengali like?
Want to know about “Baroi”s. They are a Bangla-speaking Christian tribe living in Bangladesh.
https://forebears.io/surnames/baroi#:~:text=nationality%20or%20country%20of%20origin,potential%20spellings%20of%20this%20name.
Interesting. Never heard of this community before.
Possibly they are genetically just like Bangladeshi Muslims
Given most Bangladeshis, or Bengalis in general, are quite homogenous, it is plausible. Hindu Bangladeshis are disparate and ostensibly comparable to West Bengal samples. I know little about Bengali Christians apart from their surnames that indicate proselytization through Portuguese missionaries. They could’ve been converted from generic Bengalis or from lower castes.
“Hindu Bangladeshis are disparate and ostensibly comparable to West Bengal samples.”
Do you mean that Hindu Bangladeshis have less East Asian than average Bangladeshis with other ancestries being similar?
No. East Asian is similar between muslims and generic hindu Bengalis from the same region. Some West bengal samples clustered with Bangladeshis suggesting an east Bengal origin, they are known as Bangal( Some famous Bangal are Suchitra sen, Sushmita sen etc) . The east asian %age difference is around 5% between Kolkata and Eastern Bangladesh.
By disparate I meant various castes.
https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/10/04/population-structure-in-west-bengal-and-bangladesh/
Mr. Khan, I did not know there’s still Buddhists existing in Bangladesh of all places in the modern age, and Theravadins to boot. As a undergrad student who’s studying Buddhism in premodern South Asia, I do have one question: since the Pala period you mentioned espoused Vajrayanic Buddhism, are there any existing communities in Bangladesh that are still adhering to Vajrayanic Buddhism?
Brothers, After a long time I have seen this post, Beng a Barua Buddhist I want to clear this subject. Before all these historical statements and events, we have to go beyond the pala period. The culture and living standard always changes according to the Area, Place, and Country. The Barua Buddhist have suffered a lot and undergone so many changes in their life. The Buddhist Barua were the Aryavarta or upper cast Hindus in the name of Brijji or Vajji people of Majjima Desha (Now is known as Magadha and Vaishali of Uttar Pradesh) . The Barua People with others Brahmin communities have embraced/adopted Buddhism at the time of Gautama Buddha. These places were always under the aggression of the one king to other kings, like Ajatshatru wanted to conquer the Vaishali, for that he had attacked so many times on Vaishali, like that Magadha was also the land of battle from the time before the Buddha. During this oppression and frequent attacks of the kings, the Brijji or Vajji People of Vaishali and Magadha left their native Villages,Places and settled to the remote land of Arakan adjacent to Burma. Thereafter, the remaining rest of the people fled away to the Arakan when the Pushimitra Sunga started oppressing the Buddhist Monk and Buddhist People. In the State of Arakan they started their new life securing Buddhism, culture, and functions, but slowly as per the State affairs they have slightly changed their life style, culture and functions as per the local Arakan people as they were also buddhist. Then, interestingly another history takes place here. The State of Arakan and Burma were under the frequent disturbances and the Burma and Arakan used to battle with each other. There also the Barua Buddhist could not stay calmely and peacefully, and in these two country’s war other kings also try to attack the State of Arakan. And then the Barua Buddhist ran away from Arakan to eastern part of Bengal that is Bangladesh and from Bangladesh they spred everywhere. The Asamese Barua are also the same and they have adopted Hinduism at the time of the regime of Sukhafa a King from China. The King Sukhafa did not restrict any religion in the Assam Region though he was from Chines Cantonese or mixed three religion (Confucion, Buddhism, Taoism). So this is the true history of Barua Buddhist, Nowadays some Barua Buddhist people have taken government jobs by taking false Schedule Tribe Certificate. In this regards a case was also filed in the Supreme Court of India to consider the Barua Buddhist as Schedule Tribe but the Supreme Court of India rejected the prayer saying that the Barua Buddhists are not at all Schedule Tribe or Caste and they are from the forward class.
I am a Barua too. Btw are you from Bangladesh?