What’s wrong with fetishisizing white men?

IndThings writes an interesting comment:

I would be careful of trying to ride this tiger however, lest Desis/Muslims end up like East-Asian men. Completely forced out of the sexual market-place by white-men basically, as what may have once been an earnest attempt at disenfranchising misogynistic Asian-male attitudes, has turned into a shameless fetish for white-men for no other reason than they are white.

There is much that unites the Trans-Atlantic cultures. Not to generalise but East Asians (there maybe some exceptions like the Hmong and Filipinos etc) seem to be assimilating and intermarrying the same way.
Oxbridge is interesting because the Asian minority population is actually Chinese as opposed to Indian. It’s perhaps a commentary on how far along East Asians have come along.
However I would welcome the above trend where Pakistanis, Muslim & Baha’i women start “fetishising” white men instead of their own. The big barrier for these cultures happen to be religion and no matter how benign a religion maybe, it’s all couched in the patriarchy.
What I am beginning to notice among East Asian men that, in light of the relentless sexual competition that they do face for their women, is that there is a progressive dying off the nerd culture. In light of the intense sexual competition they have to step up their game.
Among Desi men where there is so much less competition (since the parents are exerting a subtle pressure on daughters to marry in the community); they remain pretty oblivious to aesthetics.
Nothing is constant and everything is conditional; if Desi men internalised this fact and were genuinely worried that their wives could leave them or that they couldn’t find wives, then they would step up their game.
It so happens that Western aesthetics are the most advanced; coloured people in the West look much more attractive than coloured people in the East & South (unless we make a comparison of the elites; Bollywood and its ilk would skew the comparison).
Indian men in Diaspora are beginning to feel this pressure as Indian women are rapidly marrying out and it’s a very good thing. They have to step up their game.
An excellent parallel is the drama-film industry. It was usually thought that India makes better films and Pakistan better dramas for various reasons. However Netflix is beginning to subvert this paradigm because with the amount of money that it’s pouring into India, it’s making the gritty, angry and realistic dramas (Sacred Games, Ghoul, Delhi Crime) that Pakistan just can’t make.
The Netflix shows are very watchable whereas with Pakistani shows, once you’ve seen one of them you’ve seen it all.

27 thoughts on “What’s wrong with fetishisizing white men?”

  1. Ok, tiger rider on the storm, considering #3 and #5, I can leave or remove Desi from my surname accordingly…

  2. I’m having my marriage arranged now, it’s truly amazing how many women are interested in me (I’m 6 ft tall, Brahmin, and have a MD, which apparently don’t help much in America, but are big draws for Indian women!)

    I’m very much a cerebral and introverted man, and I think I would have resented having to reinvent myself entirely to compete in American dating. Fortunately, I can both be myself and get better results through another method.

    1. H.M. Brough,

      You seem to be fairly circumspect of Brahmin Indian from where.
      To me what you say epitomizes the difference between Sri Lankans and Indians.

      Below about the Tamil side of family, forget about the Sinhalese side.

      My Grandfathers brother, married an American Missionary .
      From what I gather two of my fathers cousins were bonking white women in Sri Lanka. These cousins of my father were black, I mean black. Even by Sri Lankan standards where dark brown is considered light skinned, they were black and big made.

      I have Tamil cousins who got scholarships to Cambridge who married English/Greek Americans. (They are about past 70 now).

      The generation after me, its just a mish mash.

  3. I am not very familiar with the dynamics of the relationships between white men and East-Asian-background women and don’t know if it’s more likely that white men tend to fetishise East Asian women or vice versa and I guess that’s why I am quite confused by what the commentator INDTHINGS intended to convey in the original comment (I with my somewhat pro-women and anti-men natural psychological bias understood it as referring to (some) white men fetishising (some) East Asian women but it seems I may have understood it wrongly). Could INDTHINGS or other people knowledgeable about the matter clarify?

    1. Asian female exogamy far exceeds that of Asian males. As INDTHINGS pointed out, Asian females concoct all sorts of nonsense rationalizations for this, but it really boils down to Whites having a higher “sexual marketplace value” than Asians. Everything else is downstream of that.

      1. Whites having a higher “sexual marketplace value” than Asians.

        Yes no question “Whites have a higher “sexual marketplace value”.
        Do you want the govt to step in and equalize it.

        I am 5’4′ fat little dark fucker and work it like James Brown says.
        I wish I could say I have had many conquests, day after day.

        It seems Sri Lankan males have more “downstream”.
        Because they are “Black Light” with non misogynistic attitudes?

      2. The ‘sexual marketplace value’ comes from a perceived power imbalance. A white male has higher social power – ironically not only in Western countries but also in Eastern countries (although I suspect the latter is rapidly eroding). This makes them ‘more confident’ than their Eastern counterparts. Women are evolutionarily adapted across the board (orthodox, conservative, modern, liberal, woke) to being attracted to confidence in males.

        1. Great point, and have seen this in action. chubby indian dudes from rich families who have no game in the US have a totally different aura about them in india where they are pulling knockouts. In this twilight zone of sexual dynamics , a foreign visitor or expat woman may be susceptible to his charisma,

    2. This topic deserves its own post and I’m not even sure if its our place to harp on it, but briefly;

      This talk of “teaching” ethnic-men how to be properly “liberal” by surrendering their women to white men, has been used before for East-Asians, and contributed to the decimation of their community.

      I don’t think anybody here realizes how it feels, the effects it has, to be considered unwanted by your own women. To know that most Asian-women will end up with white-guys, and you’ll be left fighting over the scraps, scraps who themselves will resent you for not being white. That’s to say nothing of the challenges you then face with non-Asian women (who wants to marry-out to someone who can’t even attract their own women)?

      For Asian-women, this self-hate hurts as well. The euphoria in their early 20’s at learning they can sleep with as many white-men as they want simply by making themselves sufficiently sexually-available, turns bitter when they realize high-value/attractive white-men overwhelmingly choose to settle down with white-women. You were only ever used as the easy rebound while the white-guy was waiting for his white-woman to call back.

      Which results in the phenomenon commonly seen, of 8/10 Asian women settling down with 6/10 White guys. Women date-up as a rule, but Asian women don’t, because for them whiteness trumps the usual indicators of attraction (looks, money, personality).

      This is why I’m skeptical about Zack saying this will “improve” Muslim men. It might, but by then it will be too late to matter. Asian women today don’t care that Asian-men that are woke, westernized, and assimilated. They see this as try-hard, as Asian-men trying to be white, which to them is pathetic, and helps justify their rejection of Asian-men. Of course, since the traditional Asian-man was sacrificed to produce this now useless caricature, Asian men basically now have nothing.

      I’ll take a bit of Muslim/Desi misogyny if the above is our alternative. Also, note I’m speaking in generalities. Not ALL Asian women are like this. Just most.

      1. Can you provide some stats on higher exogamy rates for Asian women compared to Asian men?

      2. This talk of “teaching” ethnic-men how to be properly “liberal” by surrendering their women to white men, has been used before for East-Asians, and contributed to the decimation of their community.

        what are you talking about? was there some campaign?

        the skewed sex ratio is at least partly attributable the initial wave of brides from japan and korea that arrived in the 1940s and 1950s, setting a cultural pattern which persisted during the decades of bases in east asia (the same is true of filipinos, who contrary to zach’s post have very high outmarriage rates which are sex balanced last i checked).

        the outmarrige of indian americans in the 2010 census was sex balanced.

  4. On another note, one thing that annoyed me about Zach’s post was the “step up their game” part, because it implicitly presents success in a *particular* dating milieu as a measure of your character or worth, and changing yourself to succeed in that milieu as a categorical upgrade.

    We could all agree on traits that have mass appeal in the American sexual marketplace: initiative and aggressiveness, extroversion, height, muscularity, acting/being White, etc.

    Now we return to me: as I said above, I am cerebral and introverted by disposition, and I’ve become (over the years) comfortable with my “Third Culture” identity. Would it be an “upgrade” for me to act White, aggressive, and extroverted to succeed in American dating? I don’t think so…I’m not convinced that the requisite traits for American dating success are intrinsically superior to the traits I possess.

    1. We could all agree on traits that have mass appeal in the American sexual marketplace: initiative and aggressiveness, extroversion, height, muscularity, acting/being White, etc.

      Would replace much above with confidence in yourself and your culture.
      Would you be ready to walk into to a bar with whatever Sarong/Salwar.

      At times I used to walk neighborhood bars(Sunnyside) in Sri Lankan multicolored sarong. Most often ignored, its NYC for heck. Sometimes asked why the skirt. On and off would answer easy to get my thing sucked.

    2. I thought Zack was talking about pretty basic things, like taking care of one’s fitness, hygiene, clothing, try to have a pleasant demeanor, don’t act like an entitled brat or mama’s boy, etc. Most Indian men are guilty of many or all of these deficiencies. (I used to be a fat nerd myself throughout my childhood. Living in LA prompted me to take steps toward getting fit.)

      Once these basic things are taken care of, we can turn to economic and racial reasons.

  5. I think Zac’s use of ‘step up their game’ is in the same vein as ‘fittest’ in ‘survival of the fittest’ and not a direct character judgement.

  6. // . It was usually thought that India makes better films and Pakistan better dramas for various reasons //

    Indians who say that Pakistani dramas are better are usually being a little nostalgic more than anything else…

    Indian television, especially doordarshan has produced fantastic serials: both factual/historical docu-dramas, book adaptations, satire, musicals, and even very good science fiction (e.g. check the old Indradhanush series now available on youtube with Karan Johar as a child actor).

    Currently RS (Rajya Sabha) TV – which can be accessed by anyone on Youtube – produces fantastic programmes paid for by the Indian taxpayer, and that is just a sliver of Indian creative output. I strongly recommend the Samvidhaan series (on the making of the Indian Constitution).

    The amount of output increased exponentially after economic liberalization of the 90s decade, and much of the stuff produced was junk, as happens in any creative explosion. The umpteen Indian channels now cater to the newest entrants to India’s expanding middle class – which may explain some of the perceived dumbing down of content (relative to the 90s). Part of the charm of Pakistani “family dramas” is the nostalgia value, i.e. they remind Indians of how our TV used to be a generation ago.

    However, in absolute terms Indian TV has qualitatively better output than in the past and is getting more creative on all fora (Youtube, Amazon, Netflix etc) where silly censorship norms do not affect content.

    1. Dear God! Most Telugu TV serials after the liberalisation (I suppose there used not to be many serials in Telugu before the liberalisation in the first place but whatever used to exist were likely of super-good quality) are absolutely ridiculous and unspeakably insane (except some like Amrutham, Radha-Madhu, Ammamma.com, Laya, etc.). I think the same is the case with Malayalam, Tamil and Hindi serials as well, though some Hindi serials are very good, eg. Sadda Haq, to some extent Sasural Simar Ki (Ka?) (during the 1 month period I used to watch it when in my adolescence), etc. (Kasauti Zindagi Ki (Ke?) and many others like it are pure evil though Kamalika Basu’s serpentine theme tune is the best in the whole world!)

      Edit: I have recently watched Samvidhaan also! It is quite good, though the supposedly funny bits in it are funny in a very odd way (to me).

      1. Hey, Ruturagalu (which came after liberalization) was excellent from the little I saw.

        1. Wow since I vaguely knew that Ruturagalu serial (which also indeed has a good rating from what I know) to have been on DD, I assumed that it may have been pre-liberalisation. I did not know that it was later than that. If this serial is apparently the first Telugu TV serial as I read on some places on the internet, then does that mean no Telugu serials used to come on DD before liberalisation at all (I heard that the world before liberalisation used to be quite weird but I did not think it would be this much lol)? I am a fully post-liberalisation baby so I know mainly Amrutham, Radha-Madhu, etc. (in addition to the usual stupid stuff like Manasu Chuda Tarama, Adapilla, Chandramukhi, whatever whatever) Apparently I also used to watch a particular serial called Populapette with interest in deeper childhood (I don’t remember that) and I also remember and watched later re-runs of Lady Detective too. I also used to very badly want to watch Alaukika all the time but it used to air very late at 10:00 pm or so and I was not allowed to stay awake till that time.

      2. “: I have recently watched Samvidhaan also! It is quite good, though the supposedly funny bits in it are funny in a very odd way (to me).”

        ? Like Nehru wasn’t quite the ladies men as we like to believe ( hoped)

        1. I don’t know about Nehru but the now-vague thing I remember about Samvidhaan (my memory is atrophying at an accelerated pace than normal I think) is that the people in the Constituent Assembly were once shown making what appeared to me to be somewhat awkward jokes about cow protection and such policies during their discussions. Come to think of it now though, it seems they probably did really crack that kind of awkward jokes in there sometimes as opposed to cracking super-witty ones all the time (as they are supposed to be constitution drafters and all that and not supposed to be stand-up comedians or something lol) and the show was just depicting that.

    2. My mom used to rave about Pakistani plays from the 60s and 70s, well before mass-market TV penetrated middle India. During most of the Cold War, “things” produced in Pakistan and local infrastructure tended to be of superior quality to that in India (cause they made better economic choices than our faux-socialist regimes.)

  7. Well…. wouldn’t it be better to have a female voice in it, before making like sweeping generalization , just saying.

    Also pretty sure there is a fetish-ization run both ways, ie desi men fetishisizing white/gori women.

  8. Hey, Ruturagalu (which came after liberalization) was excellent from the little I saw.

  9. Totally different discussion than what I came to read based on the title of the post. I live in the midwest and have so many Asian friends who are extra-careful when going on casual dates w white men due to the fetish (yellow fever) concern. A friend dumped her bf of 9 months when she found out he had dated 2 other asian girls before.

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