Sometimes the overly indulgent class of people can also do some good. First Benefit Concert of its kind. And I dont think ravi shankar or even george harrison knew that it was Hindus who were being persecuted.
“my friend came to me with sadness in his eyes”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRwzB_1YEk
Almost everything we think we know about history is wrong. We don’t actually know how old the Pyramids and ancient Egyptian remains are. We don’t actually know when Alexander the Great was born. Perhaps we need to reexamine all our ancient history from every part of the world with a fresh lens.
Some earlier articles that relate to this are:
A special shout out to Razib Khan for all the many things he has taught me, and not just with respect to genetics and genetic history. Look forward to learning many more things from Razib Khan in the future. [Have never seen a patronizing comment by Razib Khan.]
Welcome back Zachary Latif 🙂 Please bring some Persian cultured wisdom to us commoners.
I’ve been following this blog for many many years. It went dormant for a time, not officially, but the activity was far less than what I’ve noticed recently. Among the founders, Zach and Razib play different roles as hosts (i’ve always thought of Omar as a host as well!), and many of us access Razib’s content directly on his personal site or GNXP. Zach has been amiable and generous in his effort to engage participants in the comments over all these years. If he makes a controversial statement or feels he made an uncharitable judgement, he has the self awareness and good nature to correct course. Unlike some of us who are anonymous, he shares a bit of his personal life here, which makes it higher stakes in terms of personal reputation. Its one thing if someone calls girmit a moron,its another if someone calls my actual known self a moron. So decorum in addressing the “real” people is important. I’m not talking about the specific controversy that precipitated Zach’s departure, but just a general policy. Its not easy to sustain a platform like this, and it would really be a shame for this platform to lose his stewardship.
At times I suggest we acknowledge the host-guest relationship here. There will always be random hit and run commenters, but for those of us who participate more frequently, lets consider the fact that we didn’t create this forum. If we can reach an understanding on that, I think it could make a compelling case for his return.
I took a few days out and did some reflection. The Pakistani in me thrives on drama,the Persian in me repulsed by it. I guess that dichotomy is what Walt Whitman meant about contradicting oneself & having multitudes. I also realise I may come across as a flip flopper but then so be it, in these past few days I have crossed several years..
I hadn’t read the blog in the meantime not because I was upset but because I wanted to introspect.
I am just catching up (I had however checked out Kabir’s excellent review of a Suitable Boy). Girmit’s excellent comment above, on my goodbye post, summed up my feeling & situation though in this iteration Razib & Omar (or Omar & Razib) are primus inter pares, which is fine by me since they were able to reboot BP and I couldn’t.
Furthermore Razib & Omar are much more substantial writers than I am (so is Slapstick, after all he is the only true Pandit among us) whereas I veer towards the polemical, observational and sometimes outlandish.
However I cannot accept my comments being arbitrarily deleted; that is a red line if there ever was one (my opinions are not garbage, my time has some value). The other is abuse or disrespect (which we hadn’t got to but would probably have gotten there).
I’m not paid to write at BP, I do it because it’s fun (and a good stress buster) but also because I’m sentimentally invested in this blog. I do think (hope) that BP has the ability to influence desi discourse in the “Devil Wears Prada” model where our rather niche topics eventually percolates into more popular mediums but then again that may just be an idle fancy of mine.
As Girmit alludes above I’m quite transparent (overly so) about who I am and my life and my choices. The fact that I’m friendly with most of the authors (& friends with Kabir) goes at the heart of what I’m about so a little allowance has to be made that my online persona pretty much maps onto my real life person. This incessant need of mine to be liked (when I first joined social media for several years I would like everything in my newsfeed to avoid hurting people’s feelings until I realised what an idjot I was being) also means I’m not very good at handling dislike (I shirk from confrontation unless I absolutely have to; my best offence is usually defence).
Zachary Latif isn’t a handle, he’s a real little boy with feelings and ideas and dreams; who above all loves his wife and puppy. sometimes he gets it right, at other times he’s simply trying to figure stuff out.. so forgive him when he does get it wrong because he does actually mean well…
Where there is love, nothing is too much trouble and there is always time.
Russel Spurr was a British-Australian journalist who spent most of his life reporting from East Asia (20 years in Hong Kong), during which time he made many trips to China and Taiwan and interviewed multiple veterans of the Chinese intervention in Korea to write what was probably the first book covering the Korean war from the Chinese perspective (published in 1988). The book (Enter the Dragon. China’s undeclared war against the US in Korea 1950-51) provides a great introduction to the “other side” of the Korean conflict. Writing in journalistic style, he freely recreates conversations and scenes that obviously rely on accounts of survivors as well as his own imagination, but that does not mean he has not done his research. He knows his history and the bare facts are always accurate. And whatever the book lacks in typical military history details, it more than makes up in the form of vivid anecdotes that really bring the war to life. Continue reading Review: Enter the Dragon. China’s undeclared war against the US in Korea
This ofcouse was always the issue, which anyone in their minds would have known, but this is the first time someone mentioned it for what it was about.
Threat Perception among Hindu and Buddhist Nationalists
I am not quoting the text as I am not sure of the rules regarding that with this person and I am not too sure of the permission.
”
But I also think Western analysis (especially press coverage) of these movements sometimes misses a key aspect of how they see themselves – as defensive projects provoked by expansionistic, proselytizing religions while being subjected to the hypocrisy and double standards of bien-pensant elites. “
Please read this article in full:
Each of us has enabled the men who raped Asifa. I am tired of the posts on social media about being “heart-broken.” I no longer even feel the space in my chest where my heart should be. I am angry, and my anger is at aimed at you.
I will be 50 years old on Sunday. I lived 29 of those years in India. I was 8 years old when I was first sexually assaulted. Unlike Asifa, I wasn’t kidnapped and murdered. I lived to be sexually abused and assaulted multiple times, by men I knew, by strangers, by doctors, by faith healers, by the editor-in-chief of a major newspaper. I was 45 when I was last physically (not sexually) assaulted, by my brother, at his wedding, in full view of the wedding guests.
Nobody took a stand. None of these men was jailed. None was fired. None was shamed. None was named. Nobody walked out of the wedding in protest.
But there were consequences. India chose to turn its consequences on me. I was shamed, with love, for being an 8-year-old girl who was asking for it. I quickly internalized it. I believe even today that I should have been a different kind of child, hidden my legs as I played, been a little less proud of my pretty face, been a little more aware of my surroundings, a little less disabled so I could run. As an adult, in a high-ranking position in my journalism career, I was asked if the thing with the newspaper editor actually happened or if I’d imagined it (no matter that other women had charged him with similar abuse). I was locked up in a room at my brother’s wedding, “for my own safety”.
I was asked to apologize, to forgive, to forget, to draw upon my resources of compassion. I was asked, by all the family and friends I loved and still long for, to be a better Indian woman.
But let’s not make this about me. Let’s make this about you. Do you call out the violent tempers of the men around you or do you just get out of their way until they “calm down”? Do you step up and stick your neck out when a man or woman is deriding another woman/girl for being too sexy, too fat, too old, too progressive, too wanton, too transsexual, out too late, or in too long? Do you write that comment to shut down a good but sexist joke your popular and powerful male friend just posted on social media? Do you tell your son there will be consequences if he raises his voice, leave alone his hand, on his sister? Or do you ask him to “protect” her, as if she were a victim and he, her savior? Do you order him to get out of her way so she may grow so formidable that she will need no protecting? Do you pay your policemen and your lawmen to look the other way at your misdemeanors but punish the man who has no money for a bribe? Do you revere the “bad boy” movie star who was accused by multiple women of physical assault? Do you elect a prime minister who is charged with inciting a genocide against Muslims and then wonder why a little Muslim child was raped for days in a Hindu temple?
I am haunted by the cries I didn’t hear, of Asifa locked up in that Hindu temple. Our girls have been crying out for years, knocking to be let out from behind locked doors. The parents of Jyoti Singh, the medical student who was brutally gang-raped by five men on a Delhi bus in 2012 and thrown from the bus to later die, say that five years later, things have become worse for girls and women in India. The Dalit women among us have been warning us for decades that the rape of one of them will soon be the rape of one of us. But perhaps their faces are not light-skinned enough, their caste not high enough, their innocence not innocent enough to find their way in our news and social media feeds.
Yes, I am shaming you, on behalf of all the girls and all the old women in and from and with ties to India. Yes, I am blaming you for the childhood I had and the childhood Asifa lost. Yes, I know all the things even the most progressive among you whisper about the secrets some of us don’t keep. Quiet your whispers. Quiet your slogans. Go home and look your boys and men in the eye. Shut up and do the real work, India.
Just a few quick words about this iteration of Brownpundits and some recent spats here:
1. I have added a large number of authors and ALL those authors have the right to delete comments on their OWN posts. No one should be deleting comments on anyone else’s posts.
2. As far as possible, please try not to launch into personal attacks against other authors on the blog. Reasoned arguments are fine.
3. There is NO commitment on this blog that all posts will be in line with any particular ideology. Some authors love Pakistan, some don’t. Some are Islamophobic, some are very Islamophilic. Stick to reasoned argument as far as possible, and don’t lose your mind over perceived violations of this or that ideological purity test. No one is going to like every opinion. But all the authors have a right to their opinion. Feel free to argue with them, but there is NO policy of deleting posts unless they contain personal attacks or appeals to violence. As I said above, authors CAN censor comments on their own posts. In general, that is the only censorship on this site. VERY rare exceptions may occur, but none of the administrators have signed on to any general policy of censorship.
Try not to be too sensitive.
Cheers.
With growth of china and rise in technology, I would be very interested in thoughts of people as to how they are all connected to each other.And how do they see the future . over 20-50 yrs, over 50-100 yrs, over 100-150 yrs. what new ideological forces will come to be , etc.
I just checked brown pundits after a nice night out to see that a comment I had deleted been excerpted. Regardless of any spat we may have or have not had that is a shocking violation of my own words and my right to expression especially after I had removed the comment.
I initially deleted the post but instead decided to let it stand (I tried reading it but frankly the only interesting thing in it was my excerpt).
This will be my last post/comment on Brown Pundits (I’ve deleted my account) since a irreparable line has been crossed.
End of an era for me at least. Persian pride and Pakistani passion have always been my vices.
Since posts are being deleted, thought this response would be necessary.
Ambedkar himself admired ramanuja , advaita . He said in his annhilation of caste ” no foreign ideology is necessary…” . So, no, he didnt see Hinduism as without hope. As for moral development in India is concerned, Coming of Islam was a big factor in all round under development altogether. There are many more people in Hinduism who stood up on issues of caste and they were allowed to criticise religion in its entirety. Ambedkar was made chairman of constitution by Gandhi and congress whom he criticised a lot. He visited and praised rss in its service as well. One cant say that of Islam. Islam kills its critics. so, no, I dont hold the same degree of hope for thee. As for borg, that is more apt for christianity and islam. It is not Hinduism that seeks converts.
With this in mind consider this.
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girmitsays:
You can convert someone by appealing to their conscience, as christianity or islam do, or you can claim that a people belong to your fold (and they just don’t realize it), as brahminical hindus and their affiliates do, both are strategies to strengthen one’s identity group. The latter isn’t more compassionate. And if shudras criticize the hinduism of brahmins, it is not something that is permitted to them through enlightened reasoning, it is something that no one can do anything about and must endure. Weakness is not tolerance.
In some parts of India we are seeing shudras and others (who have force of numbers and willingness to take personal risk) aligning behind brahmins, and we are now seeing the so-called tolerance to criticize hinduism. Targeted assassination of writers, ransacking history departments, its all happening. Hindu exceptionalism is dangerous, the idea that we are uniquely peaceful and open to a multiplicity of viewpoints, and the Abrahamics are violent logocentric absolutists.
I’m not drawing a complete equivalence between all faith communities, there ARE qualitative differences, but we don’t know the history of dissent in hinduism. The people who used to get flogged for casting a shadow in the wrong direction or drawing from the wrong well, it doesn’t occur to me that their dissenting opinions on theological matters would be well received.”
This person cant seem to recognize, that west made strides of progress because of this very reason.Even if you were to credit this new progress in India due to enlightenment values in west, it would amount to the same idea. As for history of dissent in hinduism, one can count the success of buddhism, ajivika, jainism, atheism in Indian history along with ramanuja, bhakti movement, veera shaivas among others, eventual displacement from India of buddhism, atheism was not due to Hinduism either.
And one is infact thankful and should be thankful that people to a large degree are obeying laws of the land, constitution introduced under chairmanship of Ambedkar, with An atheist like Nehru being the Prime .This happened because Gandhi built the social capital and entrusted it to them. The chap seems to not realize, without this social capital won and entrusted, which is what actually happened, the constitution remains but a piece of paper no one read. A formality. Without this trust if people had taken it upon them to destroy the social contract, massive amounts of damage could have been done . Especially if those people are the elites. So, yes, everyone must be thankful for combined cooperation that keeps the society working.To try to explain this away by calling it “so called tolerance ” is outrightly moronic. It is a form of leftist delusion that has become all to common to see all progress as a product of forcible extraction. There is such a thing as win win deal or one earned through trust. One makes progress by making it so, otherwise, degree of fighting would lead to civil war as it happens in real failed states. People who make the above arguments live under delusion that things could not have been worse. No, they could have and could go south in future as well. One must make sure it doesnt happen so. And be appreciative therefore of progress made and one continues to keep making. The assembly that passed important bill on hindu code bill had many hindus of upper castes origin.
And one must look only across the borders to realize what freedom really means. And one shouldnt make false equivalence even in partial way. And it is indeed right to praise polytheism to be better than monotheism on this issue. As for allowing dissent, it is the only freedom that counts, everything else is product of this one freedom. So, yes polytheism is most certainly more open for allowance of criticism. Infact I would argue that a world without monotheism would have developed far faster. Even the success of the west is under girded on the knowledge and practices of hellenic and roman civilizations.
Islam comes into it just as british are brought into it to explain harmful effects of colonialism to understand the relative under development. Europe succeeded because of 3 things, science, printing and freedom to criticize, India was the pre eminent place for new math and astronomy, it allowed freedom to criticize, atheists existed in India till the coming of Islam. Ramanuja , was the second greatest theologian in last 1500 yrs possibly and he stood against caste discrimination and so did many others in past 1000 years. Without Islam to worry about, people would have possibly be worried about these issues instead. Atheists existed in India for longer period than entire history of christianity thus far or the entire peak period of greeko roman civilization. To understand the influence of Islam, one only needs to wonder, what would have happened to western civilization had it been occupied, its universities destroyed, oxford and Cambridge being replaced with taj mahal and qutb minar. It was knowledge that changed the west and it would have been knowledge that would have changed India too, and knowledge production under Islam in India was bad.
The extraction under mughals was one of the highest, this point with evidence was already made here before. There seem to be many people out there who seem to fail the most basic test of understanding how progress whether it be in science or moral issues are made.
There is only one rule that leads to progress. Disagreement. Allowing critics to live and voice their opinion . This freedom is of course not absolute anywhere in the world. But is the bedrock of all progress. With this freedom, all other progress can be captured with time, but without this, it isnt sure how much progress can even be made. Freedom leads to freedom, not anything else.